Western writing prompts thread

Puma

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Wah! I requested February or March back at post 115. Puma
 

bkendall

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For the record, if possible I'd like to pick the prompt for February or March. I want to make it in line with what would be needed for the Hillerman short story contest which has a deadline date in August and is one worth looking into. I figure February or March would give everyone plenty of time to polish stories if they want to try entering (I did previously, didn't win obviously.) Puma

This is true. That's what records are for.
 

HarryHoskins

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Jeez, you ever get the feeling you've been ambushed. :)

I recall this now and think it as great idea now as I did then, but if your thinking about Feb or March for an August deadline, well, thats a six to seven month period to write and submit one story, which, unless its novel length, is quite a time.
 

HarryHoskins

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No idea about any of that, BK -- glad you had a vent though. :)

On with the more, ahem, serious stuff.

Hopefully, DH is up for setting the January prompt. :)

After that, somehow, the subject of what we should do during February and March has come up again.

Now, I'm thinking that Puma's idea of starting to get prompts in line with competitions is an excellent one. However, it seems a little crazy to do this six to seven months before the deadline of said competition.

As we are trying to rekindle and revive a genre, I would suggest an AW competition in Feb or March that links into an April or May 'prep prompt for an august deadline comp' would be favourite.

Now, call me logical, but wouldn't this seem a much better way to get loads of people involved in the genre, and more importantly, get them learning how to write the genre, before they attempt to compete in a 'real world' competition.

So far I have held fire on this because I was waiting for an important person with an important idea to get back to me about his idea, but, in lieu of a response, I think it's worthwhile to discuss this now so it doesn't become a messy-mess-type-mess later.

So, is it better to have a site wide comp to build interest in the genre and get prospective writers ready for an off site competition -- or should we set a prompt six months ahead of a deadline without trying to get as many people involved as we can?

Whaddya'll think? :)
 
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CDaniel

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All the time. Try working the toys department at Walmart from Black Friday until after Christmas. Every. Day. For. Over. A. Month. Need I say more? :) I'm sorry, just wanted to vent.

VENT, bk! VENT!!!

We're here for each other if you need to at anytime. :)
 

Puma

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My logic with February or March for the August deadline Hillerman contest: The contest is a mystery writing competition set in the west with western characters. I've only tried to write one mystery, not sure how many others of those here in Western have, but I'm sure there are tricks to the trade. My idea was to invite the mystery writers here to participate in the challenge and to give us all pointers on how a mystery should be written. My guess is that for the most part our first attempts would either need a lot of work or we'd need to come up with some other ideas for plots - and that takes some time. And, hopefully, a couple of the mystery writers might decide they'd like to enter the Hillerman contest (and become more aware of western genre.)

On the site wide comp - there was one here in western before - the topic was to write about a rodeo. Almost all of the works submitted for the competition were modern and barely western. So, in my opinion, that competition was a bust (and those who came to western to participate in the competition didn't stick around.)

My thoughts.

bk - I definitely sympathize with your situation. I don't even plan to go to the grocery on black Friday unless I have to. And until after Christmas. Yuck! Puma
 

Dave Hardy

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No worries, DH. :)

I was trying to cycle through each of the writers posting so that each of us took a turn in creating the prompt. However, as December is, or so I've heard, all about the holidays, perhaps -- if you're not to busy -- you could do the honours for January and regdog and I can take February and March.

Harry, who likes to plan ahead. :)

Planning ahead is good. :)
 

J'Dubee

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IMO ~~ This is beginning to sound like posting on Western SYW is limited to a specific topic within a specific time period. NOT conducive to gaining new participants.
Surely we're open minded enough to have at least two prompts at the same time.
Planning ahead is great, but many are here as only readers and weekend authors. Personally, I write what I feel like writing and if I have something I think someone might enjoy, I'll post it.
I like the History board because the posters read and crit what they wish, but several folks show a WIP that has nothing to do with a prompt.
BTW... A little humor attracts people.

Did you hear the one about the priest, the rabbi, the Ozark Baptist preacher, and Lady Gaga.......


Whoops...


Gotta go.

The wife wants me to drive her to the store.
 

Puma

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Good points, Jay. Western, like all the other forums, should be open for first chapters of any type of western book, whenever. It should also be open to posts of troublesome chapters or stories, ones that need help and ideas whenever. It should also be open to posts of things people just want to show off or would like a "looks good, go for it" on.

But, prompts / challenges / whatever you want to call them are different. They're the extras and no one is required to participate in them. They should be for fun, but they should also give the posters and critters a bit more insight into writing styles.

All right - no, I haven't heard about the priest, the rabbi, the Ozark Baptist preacher, and Lady Gaga - you going to clue us in? Puma
 

HarryHoskins

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My logic with February or March for the August deadline Hillerman contest:

I like your logic, but -- even with the webpage stating not to post late -- Feb/March is miles too early for an august deadline, unless, as I have said, you're writing a novel.

Are you aiming to write a novel, Puma? Or the short story?

On the site wide comp - there was one here in western before - the topic was to write about a rodeo. Almost all of the works submitted for the competition were modern and barely western. So, in my opinion, that competition was a bust/

I see that you didn't take part in the competition, Puma. So how can you say it was a bust if the one proponent of the classic style didn't enter?

I think what you have said is revealing the obvious to us all, you don't want the western genre here (and by extension anywhere else) to be anything other than in the classical form.

Is this the case?

Planning ahead is good. :)

I sets 'em up and ... :)
 

J'Dubee

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Good points, Jay. Western, like all the other forums, should be open for first chapters of any type of western book, whenever. It should also be open to posts of troublesome chapters or stories, ones that need help and ideas whenever. It should also be open to posts of things people just want to show off or would like a "looks good, go for it" on.

But, prompts / challenges / whatever you want to call them are different. They're the extras and no one is required to participate in them. They should be for fun, but they should also give the posters and critters a bit more insight into writing styles.

All right - no, I haven't heard about the priest, the rabbi, the Ozark Baptist preacher, and Lady Gaga - you going to clue us in? Puma

Puma > I understand why you want the 6 month lead-time for the western competition. It's to lure more folks into lending their voices or words to assist others in writing worthwhile pieces to present. ~~ I spent more that 6 months on a 3K word short story, to have you show me I should scrap the crap and rewrite the piece to the perfectly comprehensible story that I wanted in the first place. For that, I thank you, and you earned the undying gratitude any readers of it – had they known. I interpret a prompt as something to tempt a stalled writer to experiment or to get off the dime and perform. A challenge would be trying to write the perfect story with help from knowledgeable friends, to ready it for publication. Quick and dirty is fine, if one can produce it. Some wines (and other things) take a spell to be enjoyable. I see no reason why the two (or more) can't exist simultaneously on the same board during the same time period. I've seen prompts on other boards get critiqued years after their original posting. I too, did not hear the punch line after the part about the priest, the rabbi, the Ozark Baptist preacher, and Lady Gaga ... my hearing-aid battery failed at that moment. I'll bet it was a real doozy.
 

bkendall

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I like your logic, but -- even with the webpage stating not to post late -- Feb/March is miles too early for an august deadline, unless, as I have said, you're writing a novel.

I'm not supposing I know anything, but what I think Puma is saying, is that six months is long enough, and not too long for some folks, to get the story the way they want it. This way, we can go through several edits and get it sounding almost professionally written. No guarantees, though. :)

Jay, I agree. I would say the only way to increase the frequency with which we have WIPs being posted is to increase the interest in the genre. And that's the point of the prompts, or so I thought.
 

J'Dubee

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Harry > "I think what you have said is revealing the obvious to us all, you don't want the western genre here (and by extension anywhere else) to be anything other than in the classical form."

I think your wrong with that statment ... Puma invited me to post my WIP. It's a far piece up the road from the classical western literature I'm aware of.
 

Puma

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Harry, I don't know whether you've visited the American West, but, if you have you'll understand what I'm saying.

There's something, for want of a better term, almost holy, about the west, and westerns, old-fashioned westerns, are the only purely American type of literature. I'd like to preserve both of those, and in doing so, preserve our history and the ways of the people who created it. The American west, and the eastern development before it, are our heritage.

I'm not at all adverse to modern westerns - the mystery I wrote previously for the Hillerman contest was modern. But, if we're talking western genre, then I think we need to pay attention to what is western genre.

bk and Jay - glad you understand where I'm coming from on my timing suggestion for the competition. It takes some time to create a good story. And yes, I also agree the prompts are hoped to get more people writing western, or Ozark western, whatever the case may be. Puma
 

HarryHoskins

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Are you aiming to write a novel, Puma? Or the short story?

I think what you have said is revealing the obvious to us all, you don't want the western genre here (and by extension anywhere else) to be anything other than in the classical form.

Is this the case?

There's something, for want of a better term, almost holy, about the west, and westerns, old-fashioned westerns, are the only purely American type of literature. I'd like to preserve both of those, and in doing so, preserve our history and the ways of the people who created it. The American west, and the eastern development before it, are our heritage.

I'm not at all adverse to modern westerns - the mystery I wrote previously for the Hillerman contest was modern. But, if we're talking western genre, then I think we need to pay attention to what is western genre.

An answer would be nice. A yes or no answer would be better. :)

Are you intending to write a novel for the Hillerman contest?

If it was up to you, would you have the western genre here to be limited to those in the classic form?
 
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Puma

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I didn't think I had to answer the obvious, Harry.

If I were writing a novel for the Hillerman contest I'd be at least done with the first draft by now. Writing something decent takes time and many edits. And whether I were or weren't wouldn't make any difference on my suggested timing to get the ball rolling on the short story contest. The five to six month lead time was suggested to give as many people as possible here an opportunity to write something they might want to enter in the Hillerman or submit elsewhere.

Jay already answered the question about limiting western here to the classic form. And you've read some of my non-classic posts (the majority) in SYW, so the answer should be obvious. Additionally, the classic form would exclude stories after about 1920 (and before 1870) and that would eliminate a lot of good stories about the west. But if you need a direct answer, no, I'm not suggesting limiting western here to the classic form. Puma
 

J'Dubee

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"If you write a book about a bygone period that lies east of the Mississippi River, then it's a historical novel. If it's west of the Mississippi, it's a western, a different category. There's no sense to it." --Louis L'Amour

I confess, I've seen more movies than read the books.

But movies exist because of writers -- even the badly received films.

Below is a Wikipedia page on "Western" genre. Good stuff, even for those who don't agree with the content.
I'd advise folks to read it, just to discover if they have a commonly held opinion of what a majority deems a "Classic Western."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_(genre)



 

Puma

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Very good link, Jay. Rep point for it. Puma
 

HarryHoskins

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Jay already answered the question about limiting western here to the classic form. And you've read some of my non-classic posts (the majority) in SYW, so the answer should be obvious. Additionally, the classic form would exclude stories after about 1920 (and before 1870) and that would eliminate a lot of good stories about the west. But if you need a direct answer, no, I'm not suggesting limiting western here to the classic form. Puma

Glad to see you say it, Puma. And, without quoting you at the moment, I'll be holding you to that statement. :)

I didn't think I had to answer the obvious, Harry.

Well, it was a little difficult to comprehend when you have twice not answered a direct question. Let's re-examine what you said the second (actual) and countless (implied) times of asking

If I were writing a novel for the Hillerman contest I'd be at least done with the first draft by now. Writing something decent takes time and many edits. And whether I were or weren't wouldn't make any difference on my suggested timing to get the ball rolling on the short story contest. The five to six month lead time was suggested to give as many people as possible here an opportunity to write something they might want to enter in the Hillerman or submit elsewhere.

I said ...

Are you intending to write a novel for the Hillerman contest? [answer yes or no]

Now, without wanting to go all Paxman on you I'll ask it a third time and qualify it further.

Puma, have you written, or are you currently writing, or are intending to write a novel for submission in this years Hillerman competition? :)

Harry, who feels all Perry Mason -- with a touch of Zebedee. :)
 

Puma

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Question in return, Harry - why would it matter whether I'm writing a novel for the Hillerman contest? Puma
 

Dave Hardy

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What's a Western?

"If you write a book about a bygone period that lies east of the Mississippi River, then it's a historical novel. If it's west of the Mississippi, it's a western, a different category. There's no sense to it." --Louis L'Amour

I confess, I've seen more movies than read the books.

But movies exist because of writers -- even the badly received films.

Below is a Wikipedia page on "Western" genre. Good stuff, even for those who don't agree with the content.
I'd advise folks to read it, just to discover if they have a commonly held opinion of what a majority deems a "Classic Western."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_(genre)


I've looked at this a few times, sort of mining ideas on how to structure a Western. I am much more in favor of an expansive definition of the Western. I think Last of the Mohicans, The Yemassee & Nick o' the woods are Westerns. Northwest Passage is very much a Western. To me a Western is a story about the American frontier.

Even if the frontier is closed you at least need a recognizable character rooted in the frontier era. The Time it Never Rained takes place in the '50s, but Charlie Flagg is a rancher rooted in frontier tradition confronting a changed world.

I suspect the emphasis on the latter half of the 19th century was more a matter of convenience. The dime novels were really about contemporary circumstance. A lot of 'em were written as early as the 1860s. The 19th century trappings, cowboys, deserts, cattle, were more accessible for pulp writers and the Republic Westerns they inspired than say the Florida frontier of the 1830s or Kentucky in the 1790s, let alone the French & Indian War era.

Frankly, I'd include the Northerns as well. Canada is an American country (we don't call in North America for nothin'). Westerns can take place in Mexico too. Strictly speaking the Classic Western began in Mexico, the Alamo was not in the USA.
 

Puma

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That's an interesting perspective, Dave. The way I interpret what you're saying is that any story about the period of exploration and development of North America would be a western, or, the genre isn't really western, it's Americana. I could buy that, but then you have the question of the sub-genres shown in the article - the Chinese westerns, I think there are even some Australian westerns now. So I think there are really three components that have to be defined: period, location, and type of story (I have trouble putting Little House on the Prairie in the same grouping as Have Gun, Will Travel (couldn't think of a book title quickly)). Puma
 

HarryHoskins

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Dave Hardy said:
What's a Western?

I'm with the genre studies section of the wiki-piece. Westerns, like other genres, are no more than a set of tropes. Because of this almost any piece of writing can, if it hits enough tropes, be termed a Western.

I do think landscape, geographical space and (as the wiki mentions) being on the cusp of wildness/civilization are, perhaps, the things most important in defining a western as they convey the openness and possibility of the frontier. However, as DH, implies --

Dave Hardy said:
Even if the frontier is closed you at least need a recognizable character rooted in the frontier era. The Time it Never Rained takes place in the '50s, but Charlie Flagg is a rancher rooted in frontier tradition confronting a changed world.

-- the landscape, space and frontier could quite easily be psychological or adapted to a time of social change.

Having said that all that, it'd be really hard to write an English set Western (I think there was one with Patrick Stewart in, but I forget the name) because of the lack of geographical space and the fact England has been civilized for so much longer than America.

*Ducks Rocks* :)

Anyone know of an English Western? Maybe medieval set stuff is the closest England can get to the genre?

Anyhow, the malleability and adaptability of the genre can only be a good thing, although, as the author of the Wiki article (who maybe a master of dry humour) reminds us.

Wiki said:
Readership began to drop off in the mid- to late 1970s and has reached a new low in the 2000s.


Question in return, Harry - why would it matter whether I'm writing a novel for the Hillerman contest? Puma


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