A decisive question

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AGragon

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Hey.

I'm not going to write the full story of my life and how I started writing here in this thread, this is just a quick question I'd appreciate if you answered, and I'll go straight to the point as to not bore you.

I've received around 15 rejections for my young adults novel, some of them aren't even "physical" because of the famous no-answer-means-no policy a few agencies use.

The question here is... should I give up already? Should I just move on to another project and consider the end of this one? (I haven't started writing a second novel yet, although I did write 2 sequels for the first book of the series I queried, out of fun and enjoyment of course.) Or should I keep going, sitting and awaiting for that rare legendary knight of salvation (one agent out of 20, miracles.)

I'm aware that rejections are really common and one as a writer who wants to be published MUST be ready for them. However I believe we all have got our limits, and pushing this further might be counterproductive, for me and for everyone.

So, what do you think?

Thanks in advance for the answers, and feel free to show your opinion based on personal experience or random thoughts of the moment.

Andrew.

EDIT: It's also worth adding that I haven't got asked for partials whatsoever, just plain rejections.
 
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alleycat

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Before moving on, you might want to get at least an idea of why your novel is being rejected. Is it the writing? Is it the storyline? Some other reason?

You might consider finding a competent beta to read the novel and give you an honest opinion.
 

AGragon

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Before moving on, you might want to get at least an idea of why your novel is being rejected. Is it the writing? Is it the storyline? Some other reason?

You might consider finding a competent beta to read the novel and give you an honest opinion.

I've had friends and mates read my novel fully, all of them around the target audience for it.
They all pointed out a few minor things each, normal of every reader. But overall they said it was "hooking" and "a book that you would devour."

I even went as far as to ask some of the agents if my query letter was wrong or had some really bad flaws in it. Not to my surprise, my questions got ignored.
 
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alleycat

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I don't know in your case, of course, but sometimes friends aren't the best beta readers unless they are somewhat knowledgeable and can put themselves in the place of an agent/slush pile reader.

Just an example: your friends may not be aware of how important the first few pages are (they may be judging the story as a whole).

It's tough to get something accepted. Sometimes it can be one little thing that's off.
 

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If your friends are experienced critiquers, know exactly what makes for publishable fiction in the current market, and can be trusted to give an honest opinion even though they're friends, then you can rely on their judgement. Otherwise, it's time to find some beta readers.
 

Pyekett

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You don't want to rely on friends and mates.

[Added: from this guy's perspective. Reading above, looks like other people may have better friends than I, or maybe it's my appearance of delicate porcelain refinement. Heh.]

Truly, you don't. The thing is, these are people who have to live with you, at least metaphorically. They don't want to hurt you. You need people who are willing to hurt you, not for the sake of pain but for the sake of making the work better and thus you better as a writer. You need other writers, and you need ones that aren't going to tread gently.

You know what you need? Absolute Write. It's the refiner's fire.

Get to posting, reach the 50 post mark, and put your query and/or text snippet up in the Show Your Work section. Take a deep breath, wince in advance, and take it on the chin. This is how you do it:

---
1. Polish as best you can. No "I just thought I'd toss this up, wrote it last night" weaselling. Post it. Make it the best you got. Own it.

2. Excuse the frankness, but you'll want to pre-shit your pants as you obsessively reload the page. Get it over with and get into fresh clothes. There will be time, and you'll be glad for it.

3. Read everything, at least eventually. Don't respond in detail for at least 24 hours. Say thank you and give rep points to everyone who responds, even if you want to murder them for trying to eviscerate your soul. That guy you fantasize about inflicting with a thousand fleas? He gets a rep point and a PM thank you. Trust me.

4. Thank everyone publicly, nurse your wounds privately with your favorite balm of choice, and revise.

5. If nobody hurt your feelings even the slightest, take another deep breath and post: "No, seriously, I need a real critique." Go back to step 2 and start over.
---

It will be okay. You will learn something. And then you will spend a lot of time critiquing other people's work in SYW, and you will learn even more. Have at it, Writer. :)
 
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AGragon

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@Pyekett
Thanks for your detailed reply to my thread.
I forgot to mention I did ask a fellow writer/nonprofessional critic and he offered a few suggestions which most of them I then implemented - some I didn't agree with/didn't feel like it'd make the book better though.
 

Pyekett

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You are most welcome.

I shouldn't speak so broadly, and I edited above. But my personal experience is that if I ask a friend (even a professional friend) for review, I don't get as much frankness as I need. The trick is to get a lot of frankness from a wide swath of people. When something keeps consistently cropping up, you have to figure out how to deal with it. The smaller bits are less important than finding the recurring themes from your critiquers.

You only get that perspective from asking a group of relative but experienced strangers who are nonetheless willing to concentrate time and energy on you. That's a situation almost impossible to set up, but it's why Absolute Write is here (among a few other goals).

I trust you will make the right choices for yourself. If it includes the SYW section here, I'll chime in if I see it. Regardless, best of luck.
 

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As the rejections are based on your query and not a sample of your writing, you might like to just double-check that your query is doing the best job it can by running it through our Query Letter Hell SYW (password is vista). Don't give up - 15 rejections feels like a lot, but it's a very small number compared to how many potential right-agents-for-you are out there. Once you've checked the query, send it out, and if a rejection comes back, send the query out to the next name on the list. Try not to think about it - this part of it, the business side, requires patience and steadfastness. You can definitely do this!

Edited to add: You need 50 posts before you can start a thread in SYW, but you'll get there. Take a look at the other queries posted, see if you can help the posters, and get to know the community here. And welcome to AW. :)
 

AGragon

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I've been lurking AW for a year now, without posting. Created my account on 2011, but thanks for the warm welcome anyway :)

I'll definitely consider the "Query Letter Hell."

How can you be so sure the rejections are based on my query?
 

Mr Flibble

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Because the query is all the agent has to go on (unless you're sending sample pages too).

It's also a right whatsit to get right. This is often my problem: You know your story (so the query makes sense to you), but you are pitching to someone who doesn't

So you have to be clear. And make it sound exciting. And different to the other 50 odd queries the agent has read that day. And....

If the query was good to go, you'd probably be seeing partial requests. The query is where a lot of writers stumble tbh. Me included.
 

AGragon

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Because the query is all the agent has to go on (unless you're sending sample pages too).

It's also a right whatsit to get right. This is often my problem: You know your story (so the query makes sense to you), but you are pitching to someone who doesn't

So you have to be clear. And make it sound exciting. And different to the other 50 odd queries the agent has read that day. And....

I was enclosing the first chapter on average with each query. That varies with the submission guidelines of each agent.
 

Parametric

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Something else to double-check is that you have a clear genre and your wordcount falls within normal parameters for that genre, ie. you don't have a 5,000-word thriller or a 500,000-word children's book. Really long or really short books can be rejected based on the wordcount alone.
 

AGragon

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Something else to double-check is that you have a clear genre and your wordcount falls within normal parameters for that genre, ie. you don't have a 5,000-word thriller or a 500,000-word children's book. Really long or really short books can be rejected based on the wordcount alone.

115,000 words defined YA. And trust me, it's very defined :)

Maybe it's a bit too long?
 

brainstorm77

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Try betas who are not friends. Also, like others have said, 15 rejections isn't a lot.
 

Mr Flibble

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I was enclosing the first chapter on average with each query. That varies with the submission guidelines of each agent.


Okay

In that case*, it's either your query, your sample pages, or both that are hanging you up (or possibly your premise - if you're pitching a premise that is already market-saturated for example. Or possibly you've got a masterpiece but just haven't found the right agent yet - hard to say without looking at your query/pages!).

Share your work is for more than just queries though. You could pop up say the first 1000 words in the genre appropriate forum.

Another pair of eyes almost always helps.



*Not counting: Agent just signed a similar book, agent is having bad day, agent is scared of spiders and your book is about spiders..ie things you can't control.
 

AGragon

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"if you're pitching a premise that is already market-saturated for example."
"already market-saturated"
"market-saturated"
"saturated"

Oh boy... I think I've found the problem. I've thought about it, but maybe it's me the one that doesn't want to believe it.
 

Parametric

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115,000 words defined YA. And trust me, it's very defined :)

Maybe it's a bit too long?

Oof. That's a hefty size for a YA novel. A huge wordcount is a killer, and if the first pages aren't as tightly written as they could be, that could easily be the source of your problem.
 

AGragon

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Oof. That's a hefty size for a YA novel. A huge wordcount is a killer, and if the first pages aren't as tightly written as they could be, that could easily be the source of your problem.

Thought about this... But cutting a book in half (not literally because ~55k would be short too) once it's already finished is a really hard task if not impossible to accomplish. I mean, it's not hard at all, but that'd mean having to pretty much rewrite it, and judging by how things are at the moment, here's when the "is it really worth it?" question comes to mind.
 

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Welcome, AGragon.

Actually, 55K isn't short for YA. 110K is a high wordcount for YA, although it's more or less in the upper range for grownup fantasy.

I'll add my vote to those of the other experienced peeps: Head to SYW, read and crit other queries and first chapters, and when you get your post count up to 50 post your own query.

ETA: When I finished my first book in 2005, I was sure it was ready for the world. Then I sent it to a couple of contests and saw how unready it really was. Fortunately, that's when I found AW.
 

Parametric

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Thought about this... But cutting a book in half (not literally because ~55k would be short too) once it's already finished is a really hard task if not impossible to accomplish. I mean, it's not hard at all, but that'd mean having to pretty much rewrite it, and judging by how things are at the moment, here's when the "is it really worth it?" question comes to mind.

How many times have you rewritten it already? One more time wouldn't be that big a deal, right? It's not so hard to cut out excess wordcount when you know how. I'm rewriting a 220,000-word novel right now and I'll be amazed if the rewrite hits 80k, so I know whereof I speak. :tongue If my suspicions are right, nobody is looking past the wordcount and the first page at the moment, so you have no idea how successful the novel might be if revised and requeried. (There's also a chance that nobody will want it then either, but sadly that's a risk we run.)

Ditching the novel and writing a new one is also a legitimate option, but you don't have to do that unless you actively want to.
 

AGragon

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How many times have you rewritten it already? One more time wouldn't be that big a deal, right? It's not so hard to cut out excess wordcount when you know how. I'm rewriting a 220,000-word novel right now and I'll be amazed if the rewrite hits 80k, so I know whereof I speak. :tongue If my suspicions are right, nobody is looking past the wordcount and the first page at the moment, so you have no idea how successful the novel might be if revised and requeried. (There's also a chance that nobody will want it then either, but sadly that's a risk we run.)

Ditching the novel and writing a new one is also a legitimate option, but you don't have to do that unless you actively want to.

I love my characters, and I know most writers do unless it's all about the money. But in all honesty, I don't know where I should start rewriting.

Originally, this YA was 125k. Trimmed it down to 120 first time, then again to 114/115k. I don't think I could take anything out anymore without missing important plot details or giving the impression everything seems rushed.

"if you're pitching a premise that is already market-saturated for example."
That really got to me, maybe I didn't give the best of me for this. Maybe I wasn't original enough.
 

Calla Lily

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A friendly warning. This:

I love my characters, and I know most writers do unless it's all about the money.

Is a fallacy. It's the kind of remark some writers make who think that if a book is successful, then the author has "sold out." You know, "true art" is above all those mundane things like paying the bills or writing what people enjoy reading. The next descriptor is often "hacks."

It's the kind of remark that makes me stabby.

Just letting you know. :)



As for the rest of your post above, you may not be the best judge of whether your book is what the market wants. Again, I advise you to check out SYW.
 
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