The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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Jaws

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Not a Recommendation for Action

The following commentary is just that: Commentary. It should not be taken as legal advice for a particular situation or an assertion of a third party's liability.

Yeah, right.

In any event, some people have been scratching their heads over the recent explosion in "partners" at PublishAmerica LLP (no, there's no such thing as an LLLP). The following not-quite-random comments may help y'all begin to get a handle on what could be going on.
  • A limited-liability partnership is sort of like a corporation, in that there is little personal liability for the partners. Except… for the general partner(s) in the LLP, who have unlimited personal liability for all debts and claims against the partnership as a whole. Limited partners (there are other terms often used for this; one cannot assume that "partner" means "partner"!) are liable only to the extent of their pro rata interest in the partnership as a whole.
  • General partners are jointly and severally liable for any debt or claim of the partnership. That means that a debt can be extracted from any general partner who can be brought before a given court for jurisdiction.
  • Although the partnership agreement may purport to allocate risks, income, liabilities, etc. among partners according to shares, a nonparty to the partnership agreement—such as someone suing to collect a debt—is not bound by those allocations.
Thus, practically, a general partner wants to have several others available to be "tagged" with any collection action if he/she anticipates that such an action might be filed. This is analogous to the corporation-law theory of "piercing the corporate veil," which can be used to get at the owners of sham corporations; but, since it concerns a partnership, it's a lot easier to do.

Y'all can draw your own conclusions as to why I might have inserted this educational message in the thread at this time. Y'all would probably be wrong, but you can have fun doing it. ;)
 

WhisperingBard

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General partners are jointly and severally liable for any debt or claim of the partnership. That means that a debt can be extracted from any general partner who can be brought before a given court for jurisdiction.
So if the Three Stooges happened to be out of town in...oh, I don't know...EUROPE, the new general partners would be left holding the bag, yes?
 

DaveKuzminski

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Sparhawk said:
10 PA writers agree to buy books monthly as this thread suggests. 10 people do so teh first month. The average cost of a PA book is $20.00 for this models case.

10*10*$20.00 = $2,000.
less 8% due to rayalites assuming no one has exceeded the 2K sales threshold ($160.00) to various writers. PA takes in $1,840 in one month. Now lets assume that other PA writers adopt this and it equates to the same variables. PA nets $22,800 per annum on a base model of 10 writers buying ten books each. BUt let's get realistic and revamp the equation. we'll say thirty writers buy 3 PA books each month (seems more realistic).

33writers * 3 books each * $20.00 = $1,980 or $23,760 less $1900.8 in sales commissions to 33 writers. Each writer makes $57.58 while spending $60.00 at a net loss of $2.42.

Okay, the math just doesn't work right for me. Why do you have 10*10*$20 since that would imply that each author is purchasing 10 books? Most of the PA writers won't have that much discretionary income to spend in that manner. They might fit in a single purchase each month, but they're trying to make sales of their own, not everyone elses.

I think all of the math needs to be gone over carefully because I can't figure out how a writer can spend $60 and make back $57.58 of it when we already know that the author gets only 8%.
 

underthecity

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Sparhawk said:
I ask again in all humility that the motto of PA be examined. "We treat our Authors the old fashioned way... we pay them"
I have always thought this motto was screwball. Isn't that what publishers are supposed to do? Pay their authors? This motto implies that other publishers don't pay their authors. The only other types of publishers that take money from the authors instead of the other way around are POD and vanity press houses. With their very motto PA says upfront that they aren't like the other vanity presses, they're different--implying that they pay their authors. Their very motto indicates exactly what they really are.

Anyone visiting the PA site the first time should question that motto. Publishers are already supposed to pay their authors, and what exactly is "the old fashioned way?"

This motto can be easily translated into other industries:

Restaurants: We treat our customers the old fashioned way, we feed them.

Movie Theaters: We show our movies the old fasihoned way: we project them.

Newspapers: We treat our news the old fashioned way: we print it.

Such a bland motto. Here's a better one for PA: We treat our authors the old fashioned way: we berate them, we fleece them, we take all their money.

Sorry, it's late afternoon, I'm running out of steam.

underthecity
 

Sher2

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DaveKuzminski said:
Well, she wasn't trying to break her mother's pelvis. After all, she was allegedly trying to kill the poor woman.
In other words, she effed that up, too.;)
 

akaa1a

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http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11893.htm

Mon Dieu!
I wish I had a magic wand to whisk these authors over here...I lost count of how much misinformation they have been fed...

A 1-2 year contract?:faint: Where are they getting this stuff?

:Cheer:
Come on over authors!
Learning the right information isn't scary.....not choosing to learn it is!
 

Sparhawk

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Copied the wrong line

DaveKuzminski said:
Okay, the math just doesn't work right for me. Why do you have 10*10*$20 since that would imply that each author is purchasing 10 books? Most of the PA writers won't have that much discretionary income to spend in that manner. They might fit in a single purchase each month, but they're trying to make sales of their own, not everyone elses.

I think all of the math needs to be gone over carefully because I can't figure out how a writer can spend $60 and make back $57.58 of it when we already know that the author gets only 8%.

Sorry Dave,

A writer selling three books at twenty dollars makes $4.80. I copied teh wrong cell. Sorry about that. Net loss is $55.20 on a buy three sell three basis.

My bottom line despite my poor copying skills is that at this rate and attitude, PA will never have to do any marketing, thier sales force is generating it's own product demand. Sorry about the confusion. :Smack:
 

Diana Hignutt

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My thanks

Just a quick thank you to everyone who sent their congrats on the 2004 BOtYA Finalist thingy. I'm floating today...

Now, back to your bashing...

Diana
 

DaveKuzminski

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This thought came to mind just now. There was recently a court case that brought into focus that individuals from other countries have some rights in this country when they're charged with a crime. That caused me to wonder if there is any sort of internation protection or treaty that might apply to contracts signed by PA with individuals from other countries. Anyone know how that might be researched and where?

Oh, one other thing. I also know that PA dropped an author like a hot potato after he revealed he was living in Japan. This might be a part of what I musing about.
 

Kevin Yarbrough

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Ed Williams said:
That's Mary Carey, she ran for governor because of the publicity, and it definitely helped her out. Believe it or not, she seems to be a very nice young woman, a few months ago she sent me a complete set of her DVDs because I'd mentioned her in one of my columns. She also asked me to look her up if I ever get out to LA. Where were invites like this when I was twenty?

Where were the invites when you were twenty Ed? In the case of all these younger women flirting with you, they probably would have been running around in pigtails screaming "boys have cooties".

If your not watching those DVD's, can I borrow them? And, can I go with you when you go to LA?
 

Literary Lola

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Sparhawk said:
I ask again in all humility that the motto of PA be examined. "We treat our Authors the old fashioned way... we pay them"
By golly, you're right. Heck, we're all writers, I'm betting that we could come up with a far better motto.

"PA: We treat our Authors the New Way...we fold, spindle, mutilate, screw, and generally make you feel terrible about yourselves while we laugh ourselves to an offshore account."

Whaddya think? Too wordy?
 

Ed Williams

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I think "The POD Squad"...

...should now become our designation for any attornies, flunkies, hit men, or anyone else designated for high management employment at PA along with Moe-randa, Larry, and Curlem, the New (and forever) Three Stooges.

(Lola, Sherry, I love it when y'all sing to me, it gets me goose bumpy all over...)

My good friend Dave had this to say:

Well, she wasn't trying to break her mother's pelvis. After all, she was allegedly trying to kill the poor woman.
Whew, thank God you cleared that up, I was worried she was trying to do something serious to her!

My running buddy Kev added his two cents worth in as follows:

If your not watching those DVD's, can I borrow them? And, can I go with you when you go to LA?
Actually Kev, I have already previewed them, I knew you and ZaZ might want to use them as instructional videos, so I went ahead and watched because I wanted to make sure they would help - they will.....

And my dear friend Diana, whose words always resonate with me, said:

Now, back to your bashing...
Can't we refer to it as "pickling" instead, something about the term "we're pickling PA" really appeals to me...
 
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akaa1a

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But, does anyone else get the impression that jck is stepping into CBM's shoes?

Maybe a dual posting nom de plume? We all know that "you know who" will be back...maybe he never really left....
or is like the "Invasion of the Body Snatchers."

Now THERE'S a scenario that makes sense!:crazy:

PS...Thanks to all for my second little green box!
"You like me...you really like me!" (Sally Field)
 
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Kevin Yarbrough

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I think PA has this no edit/edit thing going on is quiet simple. When someone complains that their book wasn't edited, or when a reviewer complains, or the authors mothers dog walker complains, PA can say "Hey, they opted to not have it edited." Now, if the author complains and says he did opt for it to be edited PA can say "No, you didn't. We have it right here." And if they don't have it right there, they will just lie, kick the author off, and be done. In the end all the editing problems will be the authors fault, even if they opted to have it edited. Guess PA thinks it will make things better for them.
 

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DaveKuzminski said:
Oh, one other thing. I also know that PA dropped an author like a hot potato after he revealed he was living in Japan. This might be a part of what I musing about.
Ah ha! We have our Achille's Heel. Everyone should now reveal that they've moved to Outer Mongolia to get out of their contract. Boy, we know how PA hates having to mail books to authors who live outside the US, eh?
 

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MartyKay said:
They want to sack a bunch of the editors. I don't think they have that many now, and from all the other commentary the ones they do have aren't professionals. Even so I've seen lots of comments on the PA boards about how long it takes for a book to come out, so these editors are probably flat out (running spell check in Word :) ).

Apologies to anyone who may have already noted this, but another possible explanation for the change comes to mind: Maybe word is getting out, and PA's having a hard time hiring new "editors."

Also, the "edit-it-yourself" option may (they think) dilute the embarrassment factor of their publishing yet more sting mss. They can just claim that those came under the "self-edit" category. (Yes, I spot all the errors of logic in that argument, but since when has PA cared about that?)

A side note: I really hope that Mem's exit from this board didn't have to do with the termination letter she said she was getting from PA. I have a hard time seeing Mem agreeing to a gag, so I hope she's gone for happier reasons of her own.

Remember, boys and girls, you don't have to sign a gag clause just because they stick one in.
 

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Ed Williams said:
...yet another generation of PA authors excitedly discussing purchasing each other's books:

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8555.htm
...
Let's see now ... let' say they succeed beyond their wildest dreams, and EACH of 11,000 authors buys two books per month ... 22,000 one-book orders ... each ... month ... Question: how long before melt-down in PA-land?

--Ken (the one with the hyphens)
aka Research Guy
 

Literary Lola

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Ed Williams said:
Can't we refer to it as "pickling" instead, something about the term "we're pickling PA" really appeals to me...
No, no, no, Ed. It should be referred to as stirring the toxic pot. Yo, pass that POD Squad bong, willya?
 

Sher2

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Ed Williams said:
Lola, Sherry, I love it when y'all sing to me, it gets me goose bumpy all over...
We girls do have a pretty good harmony going on but, dang, dude, who knew we were making goose bumps?;) Kumbaya, anyone?
Ed Williams said:
Can't we refer to it as "pickling" instead, something about the term "we're pickling PA" really appeals to me...
What's the term for sausage making?
 

Richard

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Alternatively, game the system. All you have to to is SAY "Yes! I will buy two books!" every few months, not, and keep cycling every few months. In a few decades, you could have a modest hit on your hands...
 

Aconite

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underthecity said:
Anyone visiting the PA site the first time should question that motto. Publishers are already supposed to pay their authors, and what exactly is "the old fashioned way?"

Actually, the motto is pretty accurate, given how writers were treated by "old fashioned (sic)" publishers for most of publishing history. Heh. I can't decide if that's just happenstance, or if somebody at PA has a psychological need to drop broad hints to potential victims for some reason.
 
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