Bill Cosby: America's Favorite Dad...and Rapist?

nighttimer

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Bill Cosby's PR firm had an idea. They put out a request across the Internet to create memes about the 77-year old comedian, actor and philanthropist.

The Internet responded. Oh, did it ever.

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On Monday, the comedian -- or whomever was in charge of his social media -- put out a challenge with a jovial picture of Cosby in a cap: "Go ahead. Meme me! #cosbymeme."

The Internet immediately reacted, but probably not in the way Cosby expected.

"Claire, have you seen my ... nevermind, found my raping hat!" tweeted Trill Withers over the cap picture.

"My two favorite things (--) Jell-O pudding & rape," tweeted E.J. Coughlin over a photo of Cosby smiling.

"Look at this wacky shirt I'm wearing (--) also I am a serial rapist," tweeted Jason Steele over a picture of a thumbs-up Cosby in a patterned shirt.

Now comes the social media fiasco.

For years, Cosby has denied the rape allegations. In February, after Newsweek ran an interview with one of the purported victims, Tamara Green, Cosby's representative said, "This is a 10-year-old, discredited accusation that proved to be nothing at the time, and is still nothing."

Nine years ago, when Green was interviewed by Matt Lauer on the "Today" show, his lawyer issued a statement: "Miss Green's allegations are absolutely false. Mr. Cosby does not know the name Tamara Green or (maiden name) Tamara Lucier and the incident she describes did not happen. The fact that she may have repeated this story to others is not corroboration."

In the case of Andrea Constand, who sued Cosby in 2005 over an incident the year before, Cosby says the sex was consensual.

At the time of Constand's lawsuit, Cosby had been in the news for a sexual affair once before. In 1997, a woman named Autumn Jackson claimed to be Cosby's love child. Cosby admitted to a relationship with Jackson's mother but denied paternity. Jackson was later convicted of extortion.

However, it wasn't until Constand's lawsuit in 2005 that the comedian was accused of rape.
Cosby has also been accused by 13 women of rape. Vulture published a timeline of incidents since 2002. The story took on new life when comedian Hannibal Buress called out The Cos during a performance.

Maureen Shaw wondered, Why do celebrities seem to get away with sexual assault? Cosby isn't the first, and won't be the last, mainstream celebrity to be accused of sexual abuse. This past February, Dylan Farrow accused Woody Allen of sexually assaulting her. Then there's CeeLo Green, Tupac Shakur, Michael Jackson, Mike Tyson, R. Kelly — the list goes on and on. And yet, these men's careers rebounded and their accomplishments somehow overshadowed any wrongdoings.

As one of Cosby's victims, Barbara Bowman, explains, "The media creates this idealized image of celebrities: that they are untouchable, that they're not one of us. ... I don't think people want to believe it; to believe would shatter the illusion." Specifically in the case of Cosby, Gawker nailed it: "Basically nobody wanted to live in a world where Bill Cosby was a sexual predator."

Reading the CNN and Vulture articles is unsettling to say the least and deeply troubling even for someone like myself who has a great deal of respect for Cosby. It's difficult to shrug off the multiple incidents as ambitious golddiggers scheming for a payday. There may not yet be a fire burning, but Cosby's good name and reputation has certainly suffered serious smoke damage.
 

cornflake

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I can't fathom how they thought that'd go well, given decades of stories about his being a misogynistic asshole.
 

rugcat

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I'll believe it when it can be proven.
I don't want to believe it either.

But when allegations are made not by one or two women, but by thirteen different women, it becomes pretty hard to just pass it off as women making stuff up.

And sure, famous people are sometimes targets for false accusations, for monetary or other reasons. But can you think of anyone else in the public eye, any celebrity who has had this number of accusations? It's really rather extraordinary.
 

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Thirteen is quite a number of accusations. I haven't read up on any of the particulars.

I'm sure there are opportunists out there who would make false allegations in hopes of a big pay out. On the other hand, of course sexual assault can be difficult to prove, whether the accused is famous or not.

But this quote from Barbara Brown sounds right:

I don't think people want to believe it; to believe would shatter the illusion." Specifically in the case of Cosby, Gawker nailed it: "Basically nobody wanted to live in a world where Bill Cosby was a sexual predator."

I have to admit my first reaction was annoyance that anyone would pick on that nice TV dad. Maybe we do get the character confused with the person...
 
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J.S.F.

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When the truth comes out--if it ever does--then you're either going to hear the Jello Man say "Oh no" instead of spelling the dessert, or else you're going to hear the biggest apology ever by the accusers.

Personally, I don't want to believe that he did it, either, but if thirteen women, not just one or two allegedly opportunistic women, are saying it, then something is going on. There's always a bit of truth in rumor. We'll see. I like Cosby the comedian as much as the next person...the person himself...don't know, although I've read some unsavory things about him.

We'll see.
 
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Devil Ledbetter

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13 certainly tips the scale toward preponderance.

The thing is, a guy like Cosby's may very well have burnished his folksy "everybody's dad" image deliberately in order to get away with raping. It brings him the trust of women along with a giant dollop of benefit of the doubt when accusations fly.

In other words, I find it quite plausible with no requirement of further proof.
 

raburrell

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The rumors have been around for quite some time, and sadly, seem at least plausible. One way or the other, I hope the truth comes out.
 

shadowwalker

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But that many women and still no proof? You would think something would have come out that was sustainable.
 

Xelebes

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But that many women and still no proof? You would think something would have come out that was sustainable.

Jian Ghomeshi didn't get a single investigation until he brought videotape of his attacks to his bosses and made them sit through it.
 

cmhbob

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But that many women and still no proof? You would think something would have come out that was sustainable.

Like?

Can't recall where I read this, and I'm paraphrasing, but one of the problems with rape and sexual assault is the idea that one has to prove that the offense occurred. That doesn't happen with theft; it's obvious the stolen thing is missing. It doesn't happen with murder; cases have been successfully prosecuted with no body. Ditto assault. But for sexual assault, one has to prove that something that can happen with consent happened this time without consent. It's not enough to prove that sex happened. You have to prove that the person didn't consent, and even in the 21st century, we're working on how to prove consent.
 

backslashbaby

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Yeah, it's rape. It can be incredibly difficult to prove, especially when you were obviously willingly alone with the person. I hate that with every fiber of my being, but it really is that sort of crime :(

I have no idea what Cosby is like in real life, so 13 accusations carry a ton of weight with me. Even if you know the person, many rapists keep that part of themselves (even the misogyny) hidden from view for obvious reasons, so it's hard to know then. That's why stranger-rape is more rare than being raped by someone you know, I think. It's the same thing with predators who molest or rape children. Most hide any hint of it, of course.
 

K. Q. Watson

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I never liked him, his shambling, wailing, stuttering self made me think of certain family members when they were drunk. It's not endearing to me.

Also, when I was a child and he was doing Jell-o commercials, I had a dream he "playfully" dismembered kids. So the man just gives me the creeps all around.
 

nighttimer

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The rumors have been around for quite some time, and sadly, seem at least plausible. One way or the other, I hope the truth comes out.

But that many women and still no proof? You would think something would have come out that was sustainable.

Bill Cosby is a wealthy man and wealthy men have the resources to cover up their indiscretions. Just the same way wealthy men have abundant opportunities to be indiscreet.

Or as Chris Rock once put it, "A man is only as faithful as his options." A man like Bill Cosby has no shortage of options.

Infidelity and celebrities go together like cheese and burgers. The fact Cliff Huxtable fathered a kid Claire didn't know about doesn't surprise me. I tend to expect celebrities to end up owing years and years of child support and Xmas presents to children they don't own up to.

Rape? That goes beyond expectations.

It's important to note that for all the troubling allegations and damning information that has gone from a slow drip to a raging torrent, Cosby has never been indicted, arrested, prosecuted, convicted or sentenced for rape. He's been accused and the accusations were enough for him to settle the cases for money in exchange for silence. Silence is golden and buying silence has allowed Cosby to keep his golden halo from being tarnished as a sexual predator.

I am not objective about Bill Cosby. I've laughed at his stand-up, watched his television shows and films and generally agreed with his sometimes harsh critiques of Black Americans. I won't call him a role model or a hero but I will call him a man I respect.

I'm not yet convinced of Cosby's guilt merely because The Internet and a hostile lynch mob of bloggers have found him guilty. The Internet does get things wrong on occasion. It was predicted Kim Kardashian would "break the Internet" because she bared her assets, yet here we are. It might be wrong again.

If it is proven Bill Cosby has been putting his pudding pop in somebody's Jell-O against their will I will never respect him again.

But I won't be happy about it.
 

Toothpaste

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As always I am more inclined to believe 13 women who claim abuse and who have similar stories, to one wealthy famous man who has everything to lose and the resources to protect himself.

We don't know the truth but this is what I do know: reporting rape is difficult, there is the same percentage of false rape allegations as there are false any other crime allegations (in other words, negligible), even those false rape reports statistics include real rapes where the victim was coerced to take back the statement (TW for this one: http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2013/08/23/i-am-a-false-rape-allegation-statistic/), victims of rape are blamed all the time for their own rape, proving rape is very difficult in the first place. I simply cannot sit back and cooly say unless rape/assault is proven in a court of law it didn't happen. It's far too complex a situation to simply demand undeniable proof or it didn't happen (there's always a question of proof isn't there? But what would satisfy? A video would be grand. DNA. Visible marks. All that would be delightful. But you aren't going to get all that necessarily. Not after years have passed, and certainly not even in some situations right after the fact. Heck even if you have proof you don't necessarily get a person charged, let alone convicted [seriously, read that article I linked to, it'll make you sick]).

So yeah. I hate this. I hate this so much because I LOVE the Cosby Show. I loved him. I listened to his comedy act growing up. But I don't care. I believe the women over him. Absolutely. And it makes me even madder at him. He was a mentor figure to so many. How dare he betray our trust like that. And betray the trust of these girls who looked at him exactly the same way.
 
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Cyia

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None of us have any idea what happened, but there comes a point when the sheer number of anecdotal evidence becomes a story too big to ignore.

The problem is perception. On some level, people are judging the man by the characters he's played, including one of the most beloved family men of all time. This report is at odds with that.

I was trying to explain this to someone earlier in terms of another performer. Assuming you've ever heard the name George Carlin, you'll likely know one of two versions of him. You'll either know the stand-up comedian, famous for his words that can't be spoken on television, or you'll know Mr. Conductor who never, ever think of using mean words at all. (Middle ground would be the dude out of Bill and Ted, but he's an outlier.)

Try to explain to a fan of the comedian that millions of children love Carlin for his work on a kid's show, and they might not believe it.

Try to explain to a kid that they can't watch "that video" of Mr. Conductor they found on YouTube, and they might not understand why.

Neither of those people were George Carlin. Only Carlin was George Carlin, and it's not likely that anyone in this thread actually knew him.

Cosby's exactly the same. We know his act. We know his on-TV persona. And we know the grieving father who lost a young son. But it's all 2nd hand information filtered through edits and camera lenses, and much of it involves other people's words being spoken in his voice from a script. None of us know what the man would or wouldn't do, because none of us know the man at all.
 

backslashbaby

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It's important to note that for all the troubling allegations and damning information that has gone from a slow drip to a raging torrent, Cosby has never been indicted, arrested, prosecuted, convicted or sentenced for rape. He's been accused and the accusations were enough for him to settle the cases for money in exchange for silence. Silence is golden and buying silence has allowed Cosby to keep his golden halo from being tarnished as a sexual predator....

That's not exactly how it worked out. The first main accuser had this happen:
...Citing a lack of evidence, the investigating district attorney in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania, announces he will not act on Constand’s accusation and bring criminal charges against Cosby....

Next, she filed a civil suit. Civil suits have different standards of guilt, so a rape case might have a chance there when criminal charges aren't filed by a prosecutor.

...Thirteen women who allege similar experiences as Constand and Green are mentioned in court papers as Jane Doe witnesses....
This is that same civil suit. But those women had the statute of limitations run out, so they could not get money from Cosby through the court.

One of those witnesses is quoted about why she didn't go to the police, and it wasn't because her silence was bought.
...Bowman, who, although terrified, kept quiet about the incident and continued as Cosby's protégé because, she says, 'Who's gonna believe this? He was a powerful man. He was like the president.'

http://www.vulture.com/2014/09/timeline-of-the-abuse-charges-against-cosby.html
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20059561,00.html

Cosby definitely had the money to try to settle the civil suits and not go through the details, but that doesn't mean the women were bought off. Civil restitution is the next avenue when law enforcement won't bring charges. That is, if you want your rapist punished at all (even monetarily) and can bear to go through all the bullshit to do it.
 

Celia Cyanide

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Can't recall where I read this, and I'm paraphrasing, but one of the problems with rape and sexual assault is the idea that one has to prove that the offense occurred. That doesn't happen with theft; it's obvious the stolen thing is missing. It doesn't happen with murder; cases have been successfully prosecuted with no body. Ditto assault. But for sexual assault, one has to prove that something that can happen with consent happened this time without consent. It's not enough to prove that sex happened. You have to prove that the person didn't consent, and even in the 21st century, we're working on how to prove consent.

Seconded. In the case(s) of Bill Cosby, the alleged victims were drugged. Not an easy thing to prove.

I think it's interesting that when celebrities are accused of rape, sometimes everyone remembers, even if it's never proven, and sometimes they forget, even when there's a conviction. Up until his death, you couldn't say Michael Jackson's name without someone mentioning his rape charges. But Tupac was convicted, and no one really mentioned it again.

Everyone seemed to have completely forgotten about the accusations toward Bill Cosby until Hannibal Buress reminded everyone:

http://www.avclub.com/article/hannibal-buress-called-bill-cosby-rapist-stage-210760
 
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Maybe it's my personal experience. When I was in college, I learned innumerable awful things about people I had once respected or considered friends. Sometimes it was as serious as a rape accusation (No one I know has ever gotten a conviction on a college rape case, but I believe the people who told me these events occurred, both victims and witnesses.), other times it was just showing one face to people like me and another face to others. There are people I would give the benefit of the doubt to in cases like this, but that number is incredibly small.

So, coming from that life experience (which was probably much darker than I make it sound here, really), I have no trouble at all believing that Bill Cosby could have committed these crimes. I don't know if he is guilty of every accusation or even any accusation.

But I'm not willing to automatically brand these women as opportunists to avoid tarnishing my memories of him from when I was younger.
 

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I haven't heard anything about these allegations until this thread (perhaps I should watch Entertainment Tonight for what I miss on AW, Twitter and Facebook).
...Personally, I don't want to believe that he did it, either, but if thirteen women, not just one or two allegedly opportunistic women, are saying it, then something is going on.
13 certainly tips the scale toward preponderance.
I find it interesting that quantity of accusations helps sway people... about this other famous person, I only count seven:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_misconduct_allegations_against_Bill_Clinton

While I'm not a huge fan of Cosby, he's certainly been in the public's (and my) consciousness for a long time. I saw him in "I Spy," heard a friend play the LP "Over 200MPH," seen him on TV many times, though I only saw a few episodes of his sitcom as I wasn't watching much TV by then.

There was the tragedy about 10-15 years ago, his son was murdered on the side of the highway after his car broke down. There's surely a lot of sympathy over that, and it would be easy to see how people would think "how could he be a ...?"
 

Haggis

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I haven't heard anything about these allegations until this thread (perhaps I should watch Entertainment Tonight for what I miss on AW, Twitter and Facebook).


I find it interesting that quantity of accusations helps sway people... about this other famous person, I only count seven:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_misconduct_allegations_against_Bill_Clinton

While I'm not a huge fan of Cosby, he's certainly been in the public's (and my) consciousness for a long time. I saw him in "I Spy," heard a friend play the LP "Over 200MPH," seen him on TV many times, though I only saw a few episodes of his sitcom as I wasn't watching much TV by then.

There was the tragedy about 10-15 years ago, his son was murdered on the side of the highway after his car broke down. There's surely a lot of sympathy over that, and it would be easy to see how people would think "how could he be a ...?"
Pretty much everything Ben's just said there. I didn't want to be the first one to say it. But sometimes it depends on who you are. Mike Tyson was accused of just one rape I'm aware of. I don't know if he did it or not, but Mike Tyson is not a particularly likable guy. The Bills are. Tyson went to jail. They didn't. It's not like Tyson didn't have money either.

eta: "just one rape" is one rape too much. Just thought I ought to make that clear. I only used the phrase for purposes of comparison.
 
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nighttimer

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13 certainly tips the scale toward preponderance.

The thing is, a guy like Cosby's may very well have burnished his folksy "everybody's dad" image deliberately in order to get away with raping. It brings him the trust of women along with a giant dollop of benefit of the doubt when accusations fly.

In other words, I find it quite plausible with no requirement of further proof.

If it is unfair to brand the women whom have accused Bill Cosby of rape as schemers or liars it is equally unfair to convict Bill Cosby as a rapist without further proof---or any proof.

Plausible is not the same thing as proven and preponderance is not the same thing as evidence. Being found guilty in the court of public opinion in not the same thing as being found guilty in a court of law and thank goodness for that.

Maybe Cosby doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt any more than any other suspected sexual predator, but he doesn't deserve any less.
 

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I guess I don't understand why one shouldn't be expected to prove rape. Yes, when something is stolen it's missing - but you still have to prove a particular person stole it. Yes, you can convict without a body but you still have to prove a particular person killed. You can't say So-and-so stole it because "everyone knows he's a thief"; you can't convict someone of murder because "everyone" figures he had reason.

As to this idea of 'hush money' - how many civil suits are settled out of court, not because of guilt but because of costs and publicity and because juries are not perfect? It happens all the time. And yes, Cosby is wealthy - and sorry to say, that's a pretty good motive in my eyes.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other. I'm not going to convict anyone based on accusations and rumors.
 

poetinahat

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If it weren't Bill Cosby, but just some guy, and thirteen women accused him of rape, how contentious would this discussion be?

How many would insist on his right to presumed innocence? How many would start, not with the assumption, but by merely raising the possibility - that all thirteen women were lying?

No one except the people who were there really knows what happened, unless there's evidence. Everything else is conjecture.

The possibility of the accusations being false must be admitted, but it would seem wrong to make that the starting point.

eta: Short version: nighttimer's post, #22.
 
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rugcat

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How many would insist on his right to presumed innocence? How many would start, not with the assumption, but by merely raising the possibility - that all thirteen women were lying?
To reiterate a point I've made before, the presumption of innocence is required only in a legal sense.

If I am serving on a jury, I take the presumption of innocence very seriously and start from that point. That is how our legal system is supposed to work.

But that doesn't mean in my private life I have to make presumptions of innocence about any particular case or person. When I see a situation where 13 separate women are accusing the same man of certain behavior, I tend to believe them. So no, I'm not starting out with a presumption of innocence and I see no reason why I should.

I could be wrong, but that hardly matters – it's not like my opinion has any effect on any person's life whatsoever.