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[Publisher] Ravenous Romance

IceCreamEmpress

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How can that be? If they can't calculate the exact number of copies sold, how can they calculate royalties due?

I'm still boggled that authors must invoice for their payments.

Perhaps this is what they meant by "shaking things up" and "re-envisioning publishing." It's certainly different.
 

Chumplet

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I was an Anthology author before they bought The Toast Bitches and I ended up on the Author List. I don't understand why you were overlooked. I think I received my royalty statements for both bodies of work from Michelle, not from an editor (Lori Perkins is the editor for Sex and Shoes).

I don't like the fact that actual copy number sales aren't listed, but I understand that's something they are taking into account for next time. I'll keep pushing for it, even if the other authors give up.

Sales are just as disappointing as my other two publishers, so I'm not going to get my pantyhose in a knot over that one. I also know I won't receive additional money until my advance is earned out, so no worries there.

If you're an RR author, get on the author loop (not the reader loop) and discuss your concerns. That's what it is there for. If you still don't get answers, contact Holly directly. It can't hurt.
 

HapiSofi

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It would be normal for anthology editors to receive the royalty statements and payments, and to pass on the information and a share of the royalties to the anthology's authors.

It would be quite unusual for anthology editors or the authors of novels to have to invoice the publisher, or for anthology authors to have to invoice the publisher or the anthology editor, in order to receive their royalties.
 

eqb

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I don't like the fact that actual copy number sales aren't listed, but I understand that's something they are taking into account for next time.

Listing copies sold on royalty statements is standard publishing practice. It's deeply troubling that authors would have to push for something like that.

All in all, given the requirement for invoices, the non-standard royalty statements, and the low payments, I'm not sure I'd want to submit here, no matter which trusted editor was in charge of any particular anthology.
 

veinglory

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The thing about sales is this. When Perkins was referring people to Ravenous this only made sense (conflict if interest or not) if they had high level sales that an agent would legitimately interested in. I estimated this too be sales of around 10,000 copies within 2 years. I asked point blank if this was expected and the answered seemed to be: "hell yes". That and the owners talked about revolutionising the industry and editors/authors insulted owners of other epublushers as being essentially amateurs. The they challenged the way the online romance readership likes to define genres. So, they did a thorough-going job of alientating a proportion of publsher, authors, reviewers and readers.

If you raise expectations like that performing the same as any start up, and not even disclosing sales numbers, attracted what I would consider very reasonable criticism and I-told-you-so's. RR told people already in the industry that they were going to come in and do it right. Now it seems they are doing it okay-to-middling at best and (surprise, surprise) not getting a lot of sympathy for people who are, in fact, their peers and colleagues. There are also some unusually hostile reviews being posted, probably for similar reasons.

At my most cycnical I wonder of they are deliberately preventing authors from being able to report sales numbers.
 

eqb

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Oh, sorry... my cold meds are making me thicker than usual... :D

No problem! I just wanted to emphasize the word because it *is* so easy to misread.

To reiterate for those following along:

Standard practice is to include the number of copies sold on royalty statements.

RR does not include this information. (!!!!) They are reconsidering, which is a good sign, but it's weird and troubling that they didn't do so from the start.
 
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Chumplet, what is the RR author loop? And since I'm not listed on their author list, would I be able to access it?
 

IceCreamEmpress

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I don't like the fact that actual copy number sales aren't listed, but I understand that's something they are taking into account for next time.

That's a pretty basic element of publishing accounting, though. It's not really something that's considered optional in the trade.
 

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James, if royalties were paid to the editor, who then distributed them to the authors of the anthology, would that be written into the contract? Or is it just taken as read?
 

Chumplet

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Chumplet, what is the RR author loop? And since I'm not listed on their author list, would I be able to access it?

I fired off your request on the loop. Holly Schmidt would likely be the person to contact, since she's one of the moderators. Have you contacted her at all with your concerns?

I'll be sporadically off and on line the next coupla days. Hubby and I are taking a mini break to celebrate our 25th.

Frankly, all this discussion about RR is getting depressing. I love the people and the authors, and they rally and support each other as much as any other pub. I hope things work out for everyone, myself included.

To clarify one point. We don't have to invoice for our royalty payments, just the advance. When the advance is earned out, I expect royalties are paid out each quarter just like any other e-pub.

All this just makes me more determined to finish my next book, get an agent, and hit the Big Show.
 

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Thanks, Chumplet. Yes, I did contact Holly when I couldn't get any response about my contract negotiation questions from the three people I was supposed to talk to, and later I contacted her again when I didn't get any response to my invoice for my advance. I have to admit, I'm starting to wonder if anyone but Holly actually exists at RR! :-D

I'm sure they're all very nice people and may well be fine for folks with novels to publish, but for short story writers they're not IMO a very good choice of publisher. I can see that shared royalties may appeal to some, but the contract allows for royalties to roll over till they accumulate $100, which for a single story in an anthology just isn't going to happen. So low payment, no authors copies, and a contract that is a major rights grab -- meh, life's too short, and there are a zillion other erotica publishers who pay more for fewer rights.
 

Sakamonda

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Ravenous posted an entry to their blog today that addresses many of these concerns. They are going to fix the copies-sold data issue, among others, and they've also landed some major print and media deals.

ravenousromance.blogspot.com

FYI, I know the details of the major deal that's due to be announced September 13 (as discussed on the blog), because I'm part of it, but per the terms of my contract cannot go public w/ it before September 13.
 

JanDarby

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Am I mis-remembering, or was the original plan for RR to be e-only, with any paper books done by sale of rights to paper publishers? The blog Sakamonda refers to talks about putting their books into paper versions themselves.

JD
 

Sakamonda

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I think that was the original plan, yes. But due to overwhelming customer requests for print options, they have set up print-on-demand versions of some books with Amazon Lightning Source. They are still reselling print rights to regular trade publishers, though (have done so with several books). The print on demand books are only for those books whose print rights haven't resold yet.

The 18-book print deal to be announced Sept. 13 is in partnership with traditional print publishing and major media. Very, very cool info that I think will take a lot of people by surprise when details are released.
 

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I rarely post on comments threads, but I wanted to add a few things for people who seem to have questions. I can only comment on my own personal experiences with ravenous, which have been good.

I recently received a very nice, unexpected royalty check from ravenous. I had been hoping for royalties down the line, and this check surprised me. My work has been in books, for many years, by print publishers, and as a writer I've learned to expect less than more. So this royality check from ravenous was more than a surprise. And, trust me, I'm not bragging or boasting about this. I've been around for far too long as a writer, and have received far too many rejections and disappointments, not to be humble and thankful!!

I've also been very impressed by the sale of one of my ravenous e-books to Alyson Publications. This was something I didn't expect, and when they told me about the sale it was another nice surprise...for which I'm also very thankful.

Again, I can only speak for myself, but with over fifteen years of experience as a writer, I don't have any complaints. I've been in anthologies by Alyson Books, Cleis Press and Starbooks Press. One book by Cleis just won a Lambda Award, for which we, the authors and editors, were all very thankful. And, my experiences with Ravenous have been just as excellent as all my past experiences with the above print publishers. And the one thing I like most about ravenous is that they've allowed me to branch out in ways I may or may not have been able to do in the past.

I know I won't please everyone, but I hope I've helped a few people out with this comment. As far as the ravenous anthologies go, I've been in a few from ravenous and I'm hoping they will pay out in the long run. But I think it's still too soon to see anything right now. I've also been the editor of a ravenous anthology, LASTING LUST, and if anyone reading this thread has any questions regarding this book, please contact me personally and I will go out of my way to answer any and all questions. If any of my writers feels slighted about not getting a page, or whatever, let me know and I'll take care of it personally, too. I value each and every story that was submitted to me, and being an anthology writer myself I do not want anyone to ever feel slighted or put aside at any time. I think we all had a good relationship working on my antho, but if there are any questions from my writers, let me know and I'll take care of them.
 

Sakamonda

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value each and every story that was submitted to me, and being an anthology writer myself I do not want anyone to ever feel slighted or put aside at any time.

---Ditto for me. I have always responded to my anthology authors promptly.
 

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It's very good that RR are being responsive to authors' concerns. And their forthcoming print-book deal sounds excellent -- I look forward to hearing the details come mid-September.
 

HapiSofi

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James, if royalties were paid to the editor, who then distributed them to the authors of the anthology, would that be written into the contract? Or is it just taken as read?

Unim, Jim can answer for himself; but as far as I know, such things are normally spelled out in the contract.
 

Sakamonda

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Royalties are not paid to the editor for distribution to the antho authors. Royalties (when they are earned) are paid directly to the antho authors. But antho editors are being asked to distribute royalty statements electronically to authors when royalties have not earned out. (for informational purposes only). I think this will change when Ravenous adds more staff, though.