Agents' grapevine (or blacklist)?

Rjo

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Greetings.

If this question has already been asked and answered, please forgive the repetition. (I did a quick search but came up with nothing substantial.)

Four years ago I finished writing a book and sent out over 100 queries, after carefully screening the recipients and in most cases adjusting my query to conform to each agent's guidelines. From that first cast (with 100+ hooks!) I received 8 strikes (big fish that took the hook and ran, i.e., “Great idea, send us the full!”) and about twenty bites and nibbles (“Interesting. Send us a couple chapters/outline/proposal…”).

In the end I didn’t land an agent, but I did get some replies that gave me reason to keep trying my luck. The most encouraging response came from two different agents, one on the West Coast, one in NY (both of whom have been featured in this forum), who both asked assistants to read the entire ms. and get back to them (and eventually me) with a critique. One of the assistants was an intern, the other was a recently hired junior member of the staff. Both liked the book, and recommended to their bosses that they take me on. Neither did, citing the low likelihood of getting the kind of book I had written published in today’s market.

I guess I should add that my book is a memoir, and, to quote another agent who nibbled and spat out the bait, “Nobody these days is going to publish a memoir by a nobody.”

That having been said, and grudgingly acknowledged, I went on to do some serious revision, cutting about 100 pages (the book is now down to about 320pp.---92k words) and resumed sending out queries in which my book has become a work of narrative nonfiction (soon a “valuable historical document”), and I point out that even if it’s written by a nobody, it features more than just walk-on parts by several significant Somebodies.

The response to these later queries, sent out over the last two years, has been less and less encouraging. Nowadays I rarely even get a response. It’s as if noboby’s home, or no one’s picking up the phone. And I’m wondering, do they have Caller-ID?

So my question is this: Do agents have some sort of grapevine or secret data-base they share among themselves, or maybe even a blacklist, saying “Don’t bother with this guy,” or “This project’s not worth wasting your time on”?

In a way it’s understandable, given the increasing numbers of manuscripts written by graduates of writing programs and the shrinking numbers of people willing or able to read them---not to mention the miserable market for memoirs.

But it would be nice to know.
 

waylander

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Grapevine or secret datalist - no.
But publishing has got significantly tighter in the last 4 years and the market for memoirs was already tight back then.
 

Katrina S. Forest

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Also, a lot more agents are simply not answering if they're not interested nowadays. It's no different than a form rejection, though it certainly feels worse.

If you think you've got another book in you (and I'm assuming if you're looking for agent, you do), write that book and use the in you got from previous agents who almost said yes to your advantage. They know you can write. Now they just want a book they can sell.

Best of luck!
 

ajoker

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You know, in general, I'm against self-publishing. But this kind of thing makes me realize that it can be the only way to get a great story a glimmer of daylight. That must be incredibly frustating, Rjo.
 

Undercover

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I've read somewhere that if your memoir isn't selling, it's best to turn it into fiction. There's a better market for fiction and a bigger audience then reading about a true story of a person they don't really know.

Now if you had a platform or base of fans already, then that's different. Actually it wouldn't be that hard to turn your book into fiction, you can query different agents too that way.
 

Rjo

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When I started working on this, 20+ years ago, I started writing it as fiction, but it was too unbelievable, so I decided to stick with the truth.
 

Rjo

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Also, a lot more agents are simply not answering if they're not interested nowadays. It's no different than a form rejection, though it certainly feels worse.

If you think you've got another book in you (and I'm assuming if you're looking for agent, you do), write that book and use the in you got from previous agents who almost said yes to your advantage. They know you can write. Now they just want a book they can sell.

Best of luck!
Actually, I'm working on a sequel, and thinking of turning THAT into fiction.

Thanks for the suggestion.
 

rainsmom

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How do you know, for sure? (That there's no grapevine.)
Sheer numbers. What did you do that was so egregious that it would have warranted such a thing? For people who attempt to kidnap the children of agents to force them to sign a book? Yes, there's a grapevine. But for someone who pitched a book they didn't think they could sell? Good God, the number of people on the list would be MASSIVE -- and it would mean you get one publishing shot and no more (which many people here can attest is not true).

How about this: Write a different book. Your hits originally aren't so outstanding that I can see how they justify holding on to this concept forever. It didn't work the first time. It's workign less well the second. Why exactly are you writing a sequel to a book that hasn't sold?
 

mccardey

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Occam's razor.

This. But also agents wouldn't be agents if they didn't tend to go with their own instincts. Unless there was some egregiously bad behaviour on the part of the writer, of course. And even then - would anyone remember for four years? It would have to be really bad. ;)

ETA: Hey - rainsmom! We not only cross-posted - we both used the word egregious!! What are the odds???
 

quicklime

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How do you know, for sure? (That there's no grapevine.)


I'm sure there IS something of a grapevine....but agents are also busy enough it is reserved for "You won't believe what a preening little dickbag Wesley McPretentiouspants is, he honestly sent me a reply suggesting I leave agenting and let folks who know talent take over for me." or that sort of thing.....agents DO talk, but they also get tens of thousands of mediocre pitches--if you didn't do something truly spectacular to distinguish yourself, they aren't going to rush off to tell all their friends about one more failed memoir.
 

quicklime

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How about this: Write a different book. Your hits originally aren't so outstanding that I can see how they justify holding on to this concept forever. It didn't work the first time. It's workign less well the second. Why exactly are you writing a sequel to a book that hasn't sold?


This is worth repeating
 

Stacia Kane

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I'm sure there IS something of a grapevine....but agents are also busy enough it is reserved for "You won't believe what a preening little dickbag Wesley McPretentiouspants is, he honestly sent me a reply suggesting I leave agenting and let folks who know talent take over for me." or that sort of thing.....agents DO talk, but they also get tens of thousands of mediocre pitches--if you didn't do something truly spectacular to distinguish yourself, they aren't going to rush off to tell all their friends about one more failed memoir.


This.

Check this out:

http://slushpilehell.tumblr.com/

And even THAT kind of thing isn't the sort that gets passed on some "blackball this one" grapevine.

Honestly? I'm sure there is such a thing, to an extent; some agents are friendly with each other, and of course they're going to share info and gossip. But the amount of "power" such a thing has is extremely limited--there really isn't a "blackball"--and your query isn't going to get you put on it, even if it's an awful query. The agents who receive your awful query reject and forget it, and you, in about fifteen seconds.

That sort of thing (the "wait till you hear this" grapevine), if and when it happens, is reserved for people who respond to rejections with streams of repeated threats and abuse, or who are extremely difficult to work with for both agents and editors. And even then, very few people will actually write those names down on some kind of list. And even if they did they probably wouldn't share it, because they'd look sort of obsessively weird. And even THEN, if your work is stellar, you'll still have a career.


Don't worry about this. Just keep plugging. :)

Best of luck!
 

Rjo

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This.

Check this out:

http://slushpilehell.tumblr.com/

And even THAT kind of thing isn't the sort that gets passed on some "blackball this one" grapevine.

Honestly? I'm sure there is such a thing, to an extent; some agents are friendly with each other, and of course they're going to share info and gossip. But the amount of "power" such a thing has is extremely limited--there really isn't a "blackball"--and your query isn't going to get you put on it, even if it's an awful query. The agents who receive your awful query reject and forget it, and you, in about fifteen seconds.

That sort of thing (the "wait till you hear this" grapevine), if and when it happens, is reserved for people who respond to rejections with streams of repeated threats and abuse, or who are extremely difficult to work with for both agents and editors. And even then, very few people will actually write those names down on some kind of list. And even if they did they probably wouldn't share it, because they'd look sort of obsessively weird. And even THEN, if your work is stellar, you'll still have a career.


Don't worry about this. Just keep plugging. :)

Best of luck!
Thanks. This is helpful, and kind of what I suspected. And I will keep plugging.
 

Jamesaritchie

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You know, in general, I'm against self-publishing. But this kind of thing makes me realize that it can be the only way to get a great story a glimmer of daylight. That must be incredibly frustating, Rjo.

If it really is a great story, you'll have no trouble finding an agent and a publisher. Trouble is, very writer out there is certain his book is a great, well-written story.
 

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A comment on Miss Snark's blog said:
A hidden black list site? How interesting. ... I don't think so, but they do gossip.

Be nice to agents, even if you think they're lily-livered (what is that anyway?) pusillanimous, frog-eating, Absinthe imbibing, goat-haters. ... Because they gossip.

Don't you? Booksellers and historians do. Goat-herds do. Agents do too. They sit around tables in dimly-lit bistros and tell stories about slush piles, query letters and rude authors.

I've heard them. I've heard a big-time editor talk about the strange people that kept sending him godawful stuff and he would just dump it in the nearest trashcan--I saw him doing it!--and I've heard publishers talking trash about their own writers. Even the publishers of my first book did this, and so I wondered what they were saying about me.
 

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I've read somewhere that if your memoir isn't selling, it's best to turn it into fiction. There's a better market for fiction and a bigger audience then reading about a true story of a person they don't really know.

Now if you had a platform or base of fans already, then that's different. Actually it wouldn't be that hard to turn your book into fiction, you can query different agents too that way.

When I started working on this, 20+ years ago, I started writing it as fiction, but it was too unbelievable, so I decided to stick with the truth.
read recently that the agent for Papillon admitted it was originally sent in as a work of fiction and he recommended the author suggest it was true. :)
 

Smiley0501

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Agents do talk with one another pretty regularly (and with editors, too), but like Stacia Kane said above - it is generally the extremists that would get a complete blacklist.

Memoirs are a hard thing to sell, especially nowadays. Does your premise stand out against the rest? etc. Even in fiction, you need to stand out...but especially in memoir. Good luck!