Devs Say Plot is Overrated

AshleyEpidemic · Mar 18, 2014

I couldn't decide between posting this here or in the roundtable, since I think it pertains to story telling in general as well.

Recently at GDC (Game Developers Conference), Tom Abernathy and Richard Rouse III revealed that their research indicated that the plot in video games are not important. Apparently most people can hardly remember the plots of their favorite games in comparison to the plots of their favorite TV shows or movies. Instead, the characters are what is remembered most from video games even long after you've put the game down. The whole article is here: IGN.

Obviously, writing for video games is very different than writing novels, much like writing a short story is not the same as writing script. Each has different strengths and video games inherently are a different experience than them all. Rather than just being presented a story, you are asked to interact with the story. In some instances, the way you interact with said story will change the various outcomes that you can experience.

I was however surprised that they would say that plots are overrated. Yes, with a video game one must connect with the characters and enjoy the gameplay as well. I do feel the need to connect to the plot as well.

For one their approach was using a group of people's favorite video games rather than games in general. Generally, people's favorite games tend to be a step above the rest in terms of quality and I would be surprised if that was only gameplay wise.

Recently, I played Bioshock Infinite. Yes, the characters were great, but I was playing the game for the story. The plot drove me to play on. The same thing happened in The Last of Us and Tomb Raider. In all of these instances, the characters were interesting (less so in Tomb Raider) but it was the plot that revealed to us more about them. It was a symbiotic relationship. If either part wasn't as strong as the other, it wouldn't be as good on a whole.

I guess I just found it interesting that they think plot is overrated. Yet, I personally think that the majority of games just lack great storytelling in general and settle for passable.

Thoughts?

lilyWhite · Mar 18, 2014

Well, it's not like good writing has anything to do with how popular/memorable a character becomes. You can write a deep, nuanced character who undergoes considerable character development...or you can make some shallow sunglasses-wearing dude with a big sword. Take a guess which one would be more popular. You can make a determined but flawed heroine who overcomes her failings to become a better person...or you can make a Mary-Sue damsel-in-distress with more time spent being shoved into the player's face instead of actual development. Take a guess which one would get praised as a "strong female character".

A lot of gamers just don't pay attention to plot. Nor do they pay attention to characterization. They don't want nuance; they just want an easy way to tell if a character's "cool" or not.

Victor Clairmont · Mar 18, 2014

Yeah I read the article on IGN. Problem is, we would need to see the statistic's they are talking about and how the statistics were collected and for what games. Lets face it: Most shooters do not have a storyline gamers would care about. RPG's typically are only picked up mostly for their storyline, an dthis was Microsoft we are talking about, which currently has the lesser amount of story driven game exclusives compared to Sony. (independent console games typically have to focus on gameplay to sell rather than story.)

And lets be even more brutally honest: the majority of titles that come out (Even with AAA budgets) have either convoluted storylines that people can shrug off (Many of the assassin's creed games with the 'Desmond' storylines, not all) overdone storylines that are cliché (Diablo 3 but fun gameplay atm with patches) or bad storylines that nobody would care about in the first place!

I think these gentlemen do a disservice by saying storytelling is not what people care about in video games and people only remember characters. Especially since we are dealing with an interactive art form that atm is filled to the brim by big corporations (For consoles, not so much for pc gaming) stacking the deck with shooters, sports games, or action games with too little story. RPG's, Strategy games (Like Ogre Battle: Let Us Cling Together and FF Tactics), or hybrid Action RPG's (Tales of Symphonia) are the least made games (Though Action RPG is the bigger of those last 3, such as The Last of Us).

So yeah, we need to see their data, because I guarantee us gamer's would laugh at Microsoft once we see the polling numbers are probably more so skewed in the direction of non story driven games than story driven ones due to saturation.

But yeah, need to see their data.

Zoombie · Mar 18, 2014

Interesting point...

Of course, this draws attention to the fact that...when gamers discuss "plot" and "story," they seem to mix the terms up interchangeably - at least, as far as I have seen. And then throw in characters and things get even more confused!

I think it is important to remember the distinction between story, plot and characterization. The way I think of it is thus: A plot is what happens. A story is how you learn what happens. Characters are what things happen to slash the people who are making the things happen.

Since most games (and, in fact, most fiction in general) have fairly simple, interchangeable plots, I think how a game tells its plot, it's story, is important, since it will resonate more.

I mean, Half Life 2 and Resistance tell similar stories of underdogs fighting against alien opressors from another dimension. But the two series tell their stories in different ways. And, hell, an even more stark example: X-Com and The Bureau: Unclassified...literally almost the exact same plots (since, you know, same universe), but they are told in completely opposite ways.

Really, though, what this article says to me isn't that game devs shouldn't ignore plot, or treat it as lackadaisically as many games seem to now.

Instead, we should be trying to find ways to marry plot with gameplay, so that both are remembered and appreciated.

Now, just speaking personally, I've found that a good, well written plot, told in a good way, can add a lot to even pedestrian or mediocre gameplay. And sometimes, the way a story is told can cover for even a not-so-great plot! For example, the WAY Alpha Protocol (a game I love) is told keeps the bog standard technothriller plot interesting. And, the plot keeps the downright broken gameplay engaging for me.

Also, there is one final thing I'd like to point out: A plot doesn't have to be complicated to be good. A story doesn't need to be "arty" to be compelling. Characters don't have to be super complex to be interesting and memorable.

Making a good "dumb, fun action story" is remarkably hard...

Thuro · Mar 18, 2014

I'm not gonna lie. The only videogame plot I remember is the one to Primal. All others have faded from my mind.

Zoombie · Mar 18, 2014

I can remember the plots to most of my favorite games, with more or less detail.

Shadow Dragon · Mar 19, 2014

Yeah, I remember the plots of most games I played. Then again, I play a lot of rpgs that are plot heavy. I will say though, the fact that The Walking Dead was game of the yeah kinda contradicts what they're saying, considering that it was a story driven game. Also, yeah, I'd like to actually see these statistics.

EMaree · Mar 19, 2014

I remember the plots of the games I play, but I'd be inclined to agree that plot isn't the most important thing. Recently I've been playing Okami HD, Pokemon Y and Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies -- three games where the fun gameplay keeps me playing, and the fun plot, humor and visuals are added bonuses.

Games that focus mostly on plot, like The Last of Us or Heavy Rain, don't hold my interest as much as those with a focus mostly on fun gameplay.

But a good balance of elements is the key to success!

(Unless you're Okami. Then, er, sorry, it's a 'niche' success and 'underrated'. Okami has no luck.)

Myrealana · Mar 19, 2014

I really only play games with a plot. I love Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas only because of the plot, same with Mass Effect. The reason I find the new Laura Croft game more interesting than previous versions is the plot, not the game controls. I've played through Skyrim multiple times to see the various plot points play out in different ways. I love a game where my actions have consequences.

But, I'm not the typical gamer.

AshleyEpidemic · Mar 19, 2014

Zoombie said:
Also, there is one final thing I'd like to point out: A plot doesn't have to be complicated to be good. A story doesn't need to be "arty" to be compelling. Characters don't have to be super complex to be interesting and memorable.

I totally agree with this. A few months back I played Contrast. The gameplay was alright, but the plot was fascinating. It was far from a complex plot, but it was engaging.

Xelebes · Mar 19, 2014

Just saying as a gamer, plot is oftentimes an annoyance. Situation is much more important. As a game developer, you are looking to put in as many puzzles that would logically flow and those arise more out of situation than a plot. The plot must only intrude to frame situations.

And that is the major reason why Japanese RPGs of the 90s and 00s were for me the epitome of annoying.

CoffeeBeans · Mar 19, 2014

EMaree said:
Games that focus mostly on plot, like The Last of Us or Heavy Rain, don't hold my interest as much as those with a focus mostly on fun gameplay.

I am 100% the flipside of this. Those are two of my all-time favorites. I lived those games while on my first play through. I want to listen to every bit of narration, read every collectable, etc.

To me, it helped that both suited my play style. I want time to think in a game, and I want it to be engaged in the plot. "How am I going to get us out of here alive?" "how am I going to save his son?"

I loved Beyond: Two Souls. The story is interesting, but wrenching, and there were a lot of days I'd rather go replay an Uncharted game. It's fun, engaging, has a plot, and the dialogue/acting is great.

As an industry, I really think video games are a lot more like movies (not that Hollywood wins any gold stars for this,but...) Not every studio is producing nothing but huge grossing action movies. There is room for other stories, and they may not gross the same, but they will have a devoted following and receive critical acclaim.

Also - re: Contrast, I wanted to play that so much when it was announced, but the reviews I read were not so strong. Were you happy with it?

Victor Clairmont · Mar 19, 2014

Just give me another Valkyrie Chronicles game that had great story, great gameplay, and great character development please for the consoles or pc and not ps vita T_T (Such an underrated game!)

Zoombie · Mar 19, 2014

Also, another thing to add to the discussion...

The game marketplace is huge. So many people play games now-a-days, I don't think anyone needs to say that ALL games need to have X, Y, or Z. I think you could argue more games could use X, Y, or Z, because X, Y or Z is underrepresented.

But not all games.

Because not all gamers are the same.

So, I see no reason why we can't have good, plotty games and games that purely focus on delivering a visceral game-play experience, or games that do both. As long as the product is quality, it's all good.

CoffeeBeans · Mar 19, 2014

Zoombie said:
I think you could argue more games could use X, Y, or Z, because X, Y or Z is underrepresented.

But not all games.

Because not all gamers are the same.

Amen!

ArachnePhobia · Mar 19, 2014

I dunno, but I always thought in an ideal gaming situation, plot and story would be indistinguishable from level design and mechanics - like how Shifters/Soul Reaver started with the idea death wasn't a necessary penalty in a game ("an artificial construct," Amy Hennig called it) and the plot grew so naturally out of that idea, forgetting the plot would mean forgetting you played the game at all. Thing is, that also means that, in said ideal situation, players are less likely to think of that as plot any more than they think of stuff they do in real life as plot. They aren't reading, "Mario's lungs screamed for air as the ghost-leigon groped for him with their clammy hands, seeking to drag him back into the depths of the sunken ship;" they're swimming through the ship dodging Boos themselves, and so it doesn't feel like a structured scene the way an FMV of the same thing would, ETA: even though it seems to me it has all the elements of a scene: a character, a goal they need to reach, obstacles between them and said goal to generate conflict, and an ending that leads naturally to the next part of the game, but that's just me wondering out loud, er, on the Internet. However, I think most gamers who've played that sunken ship level in Super Mario World remember it.

JohnnyGottaKeyboard · Mar 19, 2014

Victor Clairmont said:
...Ogre Battle: Let Us Cling Together...

OB:LUCT--they took everything that was awesome about OgreTactics, scrapped it to make an interactive cartoon instead, and then stuck it onto a tiny screen!

Sorry for the derail, just had to note the shout-out to one of my favorite game series from the last century.

Satsya · Mar 21, 2014

AshleyEpidemic said:
Recently at GDC (Game Developers Conference), Tom Abernathy and Richard Rouse III revealed that their research indicated that the plot in video games are not important. Apparently most people can hardly remember the plots of their favorite games in comparison to the plots of their favorite TV shows or movies. Instead, the characters are what is remembered most from video games even long after you've put the game down. The whole article is here: IGN.

Uh. So people not remembering game plots as much as T.V. or movies (or books, probably) = video game plots don't matter? That's... that's quite a logic leap.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the lower bar for plot in games compared to other entertainment making them overall less memorable. No sirree.

Romantic Heretic · Mar 21, 2014

I've been thinking along similar lines because of the two games I've gotten involved in recently. Only with me I've been wondering about the difference between a story and a game.

The first game I bought was BioShock Infinite. I thought it was a great story. I really enjoyed the characters and I felt like I was wandering around in something from Michael Moorcock with Infinite's twisting, multiversal plot. It was also a fairly decent game.

Then I got Borderlands 2 and I haven't touched Infinite since. The plot is about as original as your average afternoon soap opera. It does have decent characters, especially Handsome Jack who plays his role with a gleeful malevolence. Others are fun as well. I never know whether to laugh at Claptrap or melt him to a bubbling pool of gunk with a corrosive weapon.

But Borderlands 2 is just a better game! There's so much more to do. And with all the character classes and the huge skill trees and the DLCs I'm going to be playing it for a long, long time.

So, my conclusion? Story is one thing and game is another. Infinite is a great story and a fair game. Borderlands 2 is a poor story but a great game.

I think developers should spend a lot more time worrying about the quality of the game and less about the story.

Reveen · Mar 21, 2014

I think gameplay vs. story is totally a false dichotomy and that a game can totally do both.

The thing is that the story should in some way involve the gameplay. Whether it's like Shadow of the Colossus where the "plot" is minimal but the presentation of the gameplay is enough to tell a story regardless. Or whether it goes in the direction of KOTOR 2 which is very much an RPG but many of the themes intersect with rpg game play concepts such as alignments, experience points, and the idea of gathering loyal allies almost effortlessly.

Zoombie · Mar 21, 2014

Romantic Heretic said:
So, my conclusion? Story is one thing and game is another. Infinite is a great story and a fair game. Borderlands 2 is a poor story but a great game.

I think developers should spend a lot more time worrying about the quality of the game and less about the story.

Of course, I've played BS:I five times and Boarderlands 2 1/4th of a time (never beat it.)

But that's not because BL2 is bad. I just never got into it that much.

Which I guess just shows that we need all kinds...

DancingMaenid · Mar 21, 2014

CoffeeBeans said:
I am 100% the flipside of this. Those are two of my all-time favorites. I lived those games while on my first play through. I want to listen to every bit of narration, read every collectable, etc.

To me, it helped that both suited my play style. I want time to think in a game, and I want it to be engaged in the plot. "How am I going to get us out of here alive?" "how am I going to save his son?"

Same here. I like to have an interesting story that I can immerse myself in. It helps if the gameplay is good, too, and bad gameplay can detract from the experience for me, but the story is the main draw, and with plot-based games, I'm not generally very interested in getting gameplay-related achievements (for example, I'm not all that concerned about maxing out weapons or using a particular weapon a certain number of times).

When a game is fast-paced or combat-oriented, I'll often read fansites and watch other people's playthroughs on Youtube so that I can get a fuller experience. For example, I'm almost done playing the Bioshock series and have spent a lot of time reading about the storylines, characters, and locations online, and looking at screenshots. It helps me appreciate the plot more since it's hard to avoid missing some things while playing. Paying attention to that stuff is vital to my enjoyment.

ETA: Also, I wonder if part of why people were shown to remember video game plots less than movie/TV plots is because in games, there's more going on to compete for our focus. I've watched a lot of Let's Play series where the player didn't absorb what was going on in the plot because they were distracted by fighting enemies, solving puzzles, or giving commentary. And in some games, it's possible to skip over plot-related details if you don't explore all areas/look at everything. I mean, to use the Bioshock series as an example again, if you don't make a point to collect the audio diaries/voxophones, you miss out on some of the story.

Romantic Heretic · Mar 22, 2014

Zoombie said:
Of course, I've played BS:I five times and Boarderlands 2 1/4th of a time (never beat it.)

But that's not because BL2 is bad. I just never got into it that much.

Which I guess just shows that we need all kinds...

True enough.

On the other hand some games require no plot at all. My next game is going to be Wargame AirLand Battle, which requires no story at all. All we old grognards know the story already.

The original article really only applies to FPS/RPG type games, which I've always regarded as stories. That's a holdover from my table top RPG games which I started playing before there was much in the way of personal computers, and games consoles had games like Pitfall and Pong.

Zoombie · Mar 22, 2014

Romantic Heretic said:
True enough.

On the other hand some games require no plot at all. My next game is going to be Wargame AirLand Battle, which requires no story at all. All we old grognards know the story already.

You know, I actually think that strategy games can have some of the best stories - though they're almost never written. I mean, I have a bazillion awesome X-com stories that will be burned into my head forever...none of them were pre-planned, but they had characters, climaxes, heroic sacrifices...lots of heroic sacrifices...

Jacob_Wallace · Apr 7, 2014

This honestly surprises me too. Most games that I've played have plot driven stories rather than character driven. In the majority of games, the protagonist is in fact written to be as blank as possible, and sometimes doesn't even talk (Gordon Freeman, Link). Even secondary characters are usually just kinda there.

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