homage vs copy cat

briannasealock · Jul 7, 2014

So....I was reading a Death Note fan fic last night and the character's in a part were having a whole conversation about homage vs copy cat-ing something and this morning I've an idea for what I'd like to think is an homage but now I am unsure if it is or not.

I'm not against people taking idea's they think are interesting and spinning it a new way. let's just make that clear. I'm unclear on how to keep it an homage instead of out and out copying something. Much like how I feel that Eragon copy catted LOTR. *shrugs*

Thoughts anyone?

Bufty · Jul 7, 2014

Nope. If you don't know when you are out-and-out copying something... :Shrug:

ETA- your punctuation requires attention.

briannasealock · Jul 7, 2014

Bufty said:
Nope. If you don't know when you are out-and-out copying something...

ETA- your punctuation requires attention.

I know when I am copying something. I want to know how to keep it strictly an homage.

and yes. my punctuation does suck sometimes.

Debbie V · Jul 8, 2014

Let's take a scene. Every Bond flick has a visit to Q. An homage has a visit to some special person or area to receive weapons. Copycatting would have the visit be to Q or Q branch. It could also have the same weapons or the same snappy dialog style.

If the reader says, "This reminds me of that," you're good.

If the reader says, "This is like that," you've crossed the line.

Please note it is a fine line. If one reader says the latter, you may have crossed it.

Lillith1991 · Jul 8, 2014

Are you talking about works in the public domain or those under copyright? Homage vs copycat gets a little iffy when talking about those things that are in the public domain. There you have things that are inspired by a domain work, based on a domain work, and retellings. In a retelling you want to mimic the original in things like tone and structure, but you want to change things in a crucial way. Things based on a piece of work in the public domain have a similar plot to the original but their similarities aren't as apparent as in retellings. Inspired by is the most nebulous of the three, you can literally do anything with it as long as you give a nod to the inspiration.
When done right all of those three are homages, when done wrong they're able to be called copycats.

Pride & Prejudice & Zombies is a retelling that features zombies based on Jane Austen's original novel, and is something that I would consider a homage to a beloved classic.

Modern Sherlock Holmse stories such as the newer books based on AC Doyles works, and the tv series are homages.

HapiSofi · Jul 11, 2014

Lilith, it has nothing to do with copyright. Copycatting is a moral and artistic failing, not a legal one.

Brianna, always check to see whether the author in question swiped it from someone else, and if so, how much it was transformed in the process.

Eragon, yeah.

Lillith1991 · Jul 11, 2014

HapiSofi said:
Lilith, it has nothing to do with copyright. Copycatting is a moral and artistic failing, not a legal one.

Brianna, always check to see whether the author in question swiped it from someone else, and if so, how much it was transformed in the process.

Eragon, yeah.

We will have to agree to disagree. What people think of as homages is something extremely subjective. Do you consider the people who give us more Sherlock Holmse books copy cats and therfore posessing moral failure of some sort? I personally don't because of the skill a lot of said writers posses. To me those would be homages to Doyles original works.

Nina Kaytel · Jul 14, 2014

I thought of a commentary from on a Buffy episode. Faith (a slayer) is in this perpetual nightmare where she ultimately killed by Buffy. However in this scene her and Buffy fall into a grave, fight, and Faith crawls out alive in the pouring rain. She stands up holding her arms to the sky, laughing. Sound familiar? Ever watched the Shawshank Redemption? In the commentary it is called a homage to that move. It's not the same. Scene, characters, reasons, setting, but the rain and the gesture are tribute to that movie.

Layla Nahar · Jul 14, 2014

An homage is a copy. It's just a copy done with class and style... oh and enough departure to hide the copy from only the most observant. And then when *they* call you out on it you say, 'mais non, it's an homage'.

RightHoJeeves · Jul 14, 2014

I've always thought of homages as something that embraces the tone of something else, while still being its own thing. For example, Indiana Jones is often said to be a homage to 1930s Republic serials.

Sonsofthepharaohs · Jul 14, 2014

'Homage' has such a wide and subjective definition, it's difficult to pin down. In one sense it can be like Nina said, an evocation of one very specific and recognisable aspect of another work. In a broader sense it could be a salute to the style, tone, plot or characters of another work, or even a whole genre. And I think 'salute' says it all - homage has a celebratory connotation, something that pays respect to the work it borrows elements from.

Copycatting doesn't respect the work it borrows from, it just seeks to use its success.

dondomat · Jul 15, 2014

The Hour of the Dragon, Robert Howard (1936)

He looked at the man-at-arms for a long space, until the guardsman moved restlessly, nervous under the scrutiny. "What is that about your waist?" Xaltotun demanded.
"Why, my girdle, may it please you, my lord!" stuttered the amazed guardsman.
"You lie!" Xaltotun's laugh was merciless as a sword-edge. "It is a poisonous serpent! What a fool you are, to wear a reptile about your waist!"
With distended eyes the man looked down; and to his utter horror he saw the buckle of his girdle rear up at him. It was a snake's head! He saw the evil eyes and the dripping fangs, heard the hiss and felt the loathsome contact of the thing about his body. He screamed hideously and struck at it with his naked hand, felt its fangs flesh themselves in that hand-and then he stiffened and fell heavily.
Tarascus looked down at him without expression. He saw only the leathern girdle and the buckle, the pointed tongue of which was stuck in the guardsman's palm.

S.M. Stirling, The Sword of the Lady (2009)

He waggled the long curved horseman's weapon, the point rising until the razor-edged six inches on the back of the blade hovered near the Cutter's throat "You may have lost the concept out in Montana along with regular baths and brushing your teeth, but it's called a belt in this part of the world," he went on. "Anymore questions about civilized fashions?"
"You lie," the High Seeker said casually. "It isn't a belt; it is a giant rattlesnake. What a fool you are, to wear a deadly serpent around your body!"
Denson started to laugh himself. Then Ritva saw his face shift, as one hand dropped to his midriff. He gave a single high shriek and dropped his sword. He struck convulsively at himself before the steel rang on the pavement, scrabbling and pounding . . . and then pitched to the ground, twitching. Her own breath caught as she saw his purple, distended face and the foam on his lips. Then her throat clenched tighter still, as her eyes dropped to his right hand.
It bled, where the palm was pierced by the loosened pin of his belt buckle.

I think any fan of Conan would accept this as a terrific homage. I think authors should do that more with books they like.

At least like this:
Winter Moon, Dean Koontz (1994)

He now preferred writers who could look beyond this horizon, who knew that humanity would one day reach childhood's end, who believed intellect could triumph over superstition and ignorance, and who dared to dream.

Or this:
Blue World, Robert McCammon (1990)

“Prepare for the end! Prepare to meet your Maker!” The doomscreamer had a loud, booming voice that echoed in the stillness over the town that stood on the edge of Nebraskan cornfields. It floated over Grant Street, where the statues of town fathers stood, past the Victorian houses at the end of King’s Lane that had burned with such beautiful flames, past the empty playground at the silent Bloch school, over Bradbury park where paint flaked off the grinning carousel horses, down Koontz Street where the businesses used to thrive, over Ellison Field where no bat would ever smack another Softball. The doomscreamer’s voice filled the town, and ignited the ears of all who remained: “No refuge for the wicked! Prepare for the end! Prepare! Prepare!”
Johnny heard a screen door slam.

Redbear1158 · Jul 20, 2014

One form of homage I have tried is in 'writing' another chapter to a tale someone was still working on. I am friends with the original author, so I sent it to him so he'd know what I'd been up to. I'd caught his characters and storyline closely enough that only a few minor changes needed to be made to turn it into one of his story's chapters (with my full permission and he noted the contribution.)

Copy cat-ing I've also seen done to this same author, in this case someone claimed they wanted to write a continuation to one of his other stories, but what he actually wrote was a badly plagiarized copy of the original. (the only 'nice' words that the original author ever said of it was that the copy cat had managed to poorly cram seven chapters into one.)

[FONT=&quot]A drama critic is a person who surprises a playwright by informing him what he meant. -- Wilson Mizner[/FONT]

Lady Ice · Jul 24, 2014

A homage requires a subtle and deep knowledge of that writer or that genre's qualities.

homage vs copy cat

briannasealock

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

briannasealock

Debbie V

Mentoring Myself and Others

Lillith1991

The Hobbit-Vulcan hybrid

HapiSofi

Hagiographically Advantaged

Lillith1991

The Hobbit-Vulcan hybrid

Nina Kaytel

I spell Gray with an 'E''

Layla Nahar

Seashell Seller

RightHoJeeves

Sonsofthepharaohs

Still writing the ancient Egyptian tetralogy

dondomat

Redbear1158

Foolish finagler of Folly

Lady Ice

Makes useful distinctions