Advice for New Authors

Don't query until your book is done. Not only done, but re-done. We're talking multiple rewrites.

Set it aside for a few months and come back to it. You'll be amazed at the problems you see.

I know you're excited to get started, but you've jumped the gun a bit. Write the book. Write a REALLY good book. Then the querying begins.

BrandonKOrner said:

Hello AW,
I'm Brandon Orner. I've been on AW for a short time now, and am currently working on my first book, which is a large, fantasy novel.

Hi Brandon....to answer things slightly out of order, let's start with your last question: Do I have any advice?

Yes. Learn as much about the process as you can BEFORE you jump in, so you know you're jumping into deep water instead of a shallow spot full of rocks and snags:




I've made some threads on the Water Cooler, but by some of the replies, I feel like I'm doing something wrong. I am halfway finished with my manuscript and queried some agents from Writer's Digest. Some of them are interested in my WIP and do know that it is not yet completed, but they are looking forward to its completion.
1. I suspect what you see as interest is primarily form rejections, which are unfailingly polite but still rejections.

2. Finish. Querying unfinished fiction is bad form, and will often get you an auto-reject. Telling an agent later that it isn't finished will instead piss them off.

I also have an editor and cover artist, as well as a website and Facebook page. (They don't have much on them yet.)
3. A publisher will have the cover done. To their tastes. If you hate it, you can protest and they may listen, or may not, but they have folks who's whole world revolves around cover design and marketing. They trust those people. Telling an agent you have a cover artist at best says "I am incredibly green yet" and at worst screams "preening snowflake." No good will come of it.

4. As for fb, etc...."presence" is nice, but only if you really have one. "My Unvisited FB Page of Obscurity But With My Book's Title" isn't presence, and having it isn't a death-blow, but again, does mark you as new.

In high school, I was always the top of my class in English and wrote essays and speeches with ease. My teachers always encouraged my dream of becoming a famous author and I am willing to do whatever it takes to get there. I am starting college this fall, and my major will be in either English or Journalism.
5. This isn't to dissuade you, it is to educate you, so you know what you're jumping into: This site is FILLED with people who write with ease. Just like the minor leagues are FILLED with talented athletes.....do whatever it takes, that' actually a great idea, just be careful you don't go in overconfident in what you bring to the table. Because overconfidence gets in the way o the often bruising process of learning.


From all of you who have been writing for quite some time, and who have already released a book or more, who already have agents and publishers, do you have any advice for new authors like myself?
6. most folks here aren't published. That said, careful in your assumptions or if not assumptions, the words you choose--many of them are still almost ridiculously well-studied on the process and getting there. To weed them out would be a grave mistake on your part.


P.S. I'm not sure if this is in the right thread, but I'm guessing it would go here.

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overall, expect it to be a long slog with every expectation it will pay in peanuts, or less. Because by any raw statistics, it does. That doesn't mean you can't get rich, or that anything else is somehow not rewarding, it just means don't start writing Grisham to ask where he bought his jet; most successful writers, with multiple published books to their name still have day jobs, and it took them years to get there anyway.

Good luck,
Quick

Brandon, you are trying to run before you can walk. The manuscript takes priority and until it is finished- and revised and polished so that it shines - it is foolish and premature to contact Agents. It can take months or years to get to publishable standard. If you find yourself in the fast track I wish you well but be warned that novel writing is a craft in itself and often takes years to master.

And you give the impression in your Web site and facebook links that you are a well known and established writer - until one spots the small comment to the effect you're working on your first novel.

Your self-confidence is admirable but keep it in check or it comes across as something else.

You are doing nothing 'wrong' per se but this is a massive site and you could benefit a lot by browsing and also, from your writing ability, by critting the stories of others in the Share-Your-Work Forums. It is far easier to spot flaws in the work of others and doing that makes it easier to spot the flaws in one's own works.

Well done for the work in school - but this isn't school.

If it was I who was giving you the idea you were doing something wrong - this maybe clarifies the situation, and again I do wish you well and look forward to maybe seeing your opening Chapter in the SYW Forum when you reach fifty posts. Don't for a moment avoid SYW because you think someone is just waiting to 'steal' your manuscript - that is a myth.

Press on, sir

BrandonKOrner said:

Yeah... I have realized I'm going a bit too quickly. When I first started out, a few other authors told me that it's extremely difficult to get an agent and get published. But you're right, I should work on it, finish it, and make it the best that it can be. Once it's near perfect, and I query agents, there's bound to be at least a few fiction seeking agents who will pick it up.

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again not to discourage you, but no, there is no such guarantee at all....

that said, my first PI in graduate school used to say "If it was easy, everyone would be doing it." Her point was some things are hard, and either worth doing anyway, or maybe, for some, not. But like grad school (and moreso; every year they churn out thousands o PhDs in biology alone, not counting physics, English, etc. etc. etc......WAY more than they do debut best-selling or even debut midlisting authors), writing is hard. I know several phenomenal writers here who are unagented anyway, or have agents who have yet to sell their book.

There IS no guarantee. You can stack the odds by being a better writer, but there's no assurance of anything. Those are the risks you should bear in mind. For me, I tend to fight into headwinds so it isn't an issue; I like the longshots. But if you're doing this in part because you're just certain you'll succeed, you may want to re-examine the very real odds....

Quicklime, your response is really useful, even though I didn't start the thread . Thanks for that!

I've got a question that I'm not sure if it warrants its own thread, but since you sort of touched on it I figured I might be able to get it addressed here.

>Finish. Querying unfinished fiction is bad form, and will often get you an auto-reject. Telling an agent later that it isn't finished will instead piss them off.

I'm currently working on a fantasy trilogy. I've completed the rough draft of the first book, I've got a fairly detailed outline of the second book, and I know generally what will happen in the third. Should I wait until all three books are as polished as possible before querying? Is it bad form to query the first book of a series if they're not all complete?

Imriaylde said:

I'm currently working on a fantasy trilogy. I've completed the rough draft of the first book, I've got a fairly detailed outline of the second book, and I know generally what will happen in the third. Should I wait until all three books are as polished as possible before querying? Is it bad form to query the first book of a series if they're not all complete?

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Not at all. You don't have to have a completed series. You do need the best possible draft of the first book to sell the unwritten books off, though. Oh, and a fairly detailed synopsis of the remaining books - although that's subject to change.

Torgo said:

Not at all. You don't have to have a completed series. You do need the best possible draft of the first book to sell the unwritten books off, though. Oh, and a fairly detailed synopsis of the remaining books - although that's subject to change.

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Thanks a bunch! Yeah, right now I'm working on editing the rough draft while I wait for some feedback from beta readers...I know it's in no shape to query now, but hopefully it will be after a good number of rewrites .

Quick is probably posting as I write this, but if the first book doesn't sell there won't be a series.

Query the first one as a stand-alone and say it has series potential.

ETA Others have quicker fingers, I see. Must nip off now.

it is usually considered bad form for a debut trilogy to not have a solid first which can stand on its own. Only because you increase the publisher's risk otherwise by trying to "hook" them into investing on a full trilogy when you're more of an unknown. It is just a risk management thing for them.

That said, make sure the first book stands on its own and is COMPLETELY finished, then query that. Go visit QLH here on AW, it is considered standard to end your query with "a standalone novel with series potential" or similar but that's about it.

Note the above is more things I've seen in a handful of agent blogs, etc......if anyone wishes to dispute they are more than welcome, but again, what I've seen is pretty solid in saying agents expect finished works

Bufty said:

Quick is probably posting as I write this, but if the first book doesn't sell there won't be a series.

Quiery the first one as a stand-alone and say it has series potential.

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Hmmm, interesting! I do have a bit of a cliffhanger at the end of the first book that ties into the overarching story, but I think I could remove that and the story would be stand-alone. It would fit better at the end of the first than at the beginning of the second, though. I suppose I could polish it up as a stand-alone, and then if someone likes it enough that they'd like the series, I could edit it and put it back in.

quicklime said:

That said, make sure the first book stands on its own and is COMPLETELY finished, then query that. Go visit QLH here on AW, it is considered standard to end your query with "a standalone novel with series potential" or similar but that's about it.

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I do think it's possible to sell a trilogy; it kind of has to be, because I've seen stuff published over the last decade or so in the fantasy genre that just wouldn't make sense as a standalone. But maybe you build up a rep with standalones first before you can sell a trilogy?

I think some folks debut trilogies, and in a perfect world the first book has a solid ending. Occasionally they don't and the trilogy is good enough publishers will take the risk, but I suspect you make your own job somewhat harder in "forcing" them to take all 3.

Torgo said:

I do think it's possible to sell a trilogy; it kind of has to be, because I've seen stuff published over the last decade or so in the fantasy genre that just wouldn't make sense as a standalone. But maybe you build up a rep with standalones first before you can sell a trilogy?

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I think if it's epic you have more scope to not completely tie it up in book one (though some resolution of this novel's problems is probably good)


Advice

Write

Write more

Look back at what you first wrote and see how shit it is.

Write more.

Read more

Write more

Learn from what you read

WRITE MORE

Don't query until it is finished (later you may be able to sell on proposal. But you'll need to prove you can write to deadlines. That you won;t throw a complete hissy fit at the merest hint of editorial suggestion etc first)


My first ever book sold to a small pub. It ws...OK. Actually i am embarrassed to look at it now though it won a small award and had some ok reviews (not under this name btw) But I would rather not have done right now.

Your firs book is...like the first cake you ever make. It may taste ok. But it probably looks a bit wonky and the icing is running off the side (not always, some people are born to bake cakes. But look at it critically. Are you really that exception? Or is the Dunning Kruger effect coming into play? -- if so we've all been there... and it will pass. If you write more. )

Basically, write more

You know all those "overnight success stories"? 99% say they were writing for ten years plus for it to happen overnight....

99.9% of people cannot play Rachmaninov if they've never played piano before. It takes time.

BrandonKOrner said:

EDIT TWO: I've been trying to decide whether to traditionally publish, or publish through Smashwords. Either is perfectly okay with me, as long as I can get my books out into the world. This is a question I've been pondering for awhile though.

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Stop. The decision to head down one path or the other needs to come, first, after you're finished with the first book (which you understand). Second, only make that determination after you have researched both paths thoroughly. Neither are the quick tracks to riches and self publishing has all sorts of things to keep in mind and is quite a bit of work to accomplish for no guarantee of return for the work you put out on it.

Honestly, I would suggest to only pursue Smashwords after you have exhausted every other possibility of gaining an agent and an offer from a publishing house first. And by exhausting I mean gather more than four rejections from agents and publishers. More than forty rejections. A lot more. There is no set number of rejections.

As it's said, sub that sucker until Hell won't have it. Then, consider self-publishing but only after some serious research into the process and the normal expected ROI.

Mr. Flibble took the words out of my mouth. You need to write write write like there's no tomorrow. So many things about writing are the kinds of things you can only really learn by doing. As much as someone may try to explain things like plotting, context, and character development, you can't really know how to do these things unless you try.

To derail slightly:

quicklime said:

6. most folks here aren't published. That said, careful in your assumptions or if not assumptions, the words you choose--many of them are still almost ridiculously well-studied on the process and getting there. To weed them out would be a grave mistake on your part.

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If we're talking about the full ~60k members, then probably true: most have not been published. But after spending some time here you'll realize there are many, many people who work in publishing hiding behind screen names here. This includes authors, editors and agents--many with popular recognizable names. Some do use their real names, but many do not. Don't let the cute cat avatars fool you.

Little Ming said:

Don't let the cute cat avatars fool you.

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I'm Thomas Pynchon.

Torgo said:

I'm Thomas Pynchon.

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I knew that.

My avatar is cute but I'm nobody.

BrandonKOrner said:

I've made some threads on the Water Cooler, but by some of the replies, I feel like I'm doing something wrong. I am halfway finished with my manuscript and queried some agents from Writer's Digest. Some of them are interested in my WIP and do know that it is not yet completed, but they are looking forward to its completion.

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Hi Brandon,

I checked out your other threads just to see what was going on, and saw this:

A few of the agents that I contacted stated that the manuscript doesn't have to be finished, but should be at least halfway through completion

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If an agent tells an unpublished writer that the novel they're querying doesn't have to be finished, this is a red flag. How does the agent know that the novel won't unravel in the final chapters?

Personally, I wouldn't pick agents out of Writer's Digest. A better way to find good agents is to subscribe to Publisher's Lunch, which is a free newsletter, and see who's made deals in your genre recently. Also, run the agent's name through Bewares and Background Check.

Finally, don't query reputable agents unless your manuscript is polished, or else you may end up like this poster.

Queen of Swords said:

Hi Brandon,

I checked out your other threads just to see what was going on, and saw this:

A few of the agents that I contacted stated that the manuscript doesn't have to be finished, but should be at least halfway through completion

Click to expand...

If an agent tells an unpublished writer that the novel they're querying doesn't have to be finished, this is a red flag. How does the agent know that the novel won't unravel in the final chapters?

Personally, I wouldn't pick agents out of Writer's Digest. A better way to find good agents is to subscribe to Publisher's Lunch, which is a free newsletter, and see who's made deals in your genre recently. Also, run the agent's name through Bewares and Background Check.

Finally, don't query reputable agents unless your manuscript is polished, or else you may end up like this poster.

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Oh wow, missed that. Yes, an agent who said your MS only had to be half completed would be a major red flag for me too.