The Hobbit The Five Armies

I loved that scene, too. And I read that Bombur caught the roll in his mouth for real, and no one was expecting it, so when everyone cheered they cheered for real. So funny!

kuwisdelu said:

Oh, and I also think Beorn desperately deserved more screen time than he got.

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ETA: Yes, me too! Did you see our first few posts about him/how they didn't really show that his arrival with the eagles was the turning point in the battle? I hope he's in the extended version.

(And as a PSA, goblins and orcs are different words for the same race.)

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But wasn't there a part with one of the movies where they encountered goblins and the Goblin King in the mountains/caves (when Bilbo gets separated and finds the ring)? I've watched all of the Middle Earth films and never realized they could be orcs and vice versa. Certainly not arguing, just as a person who's knowledge is
limited to film, these things aren't obvious.

Anyway, I will say that Martin Freeman makes a delightful Bilbo and thought he was one of the only good things about the other films and just as good here.

katiemac said:

But wasn't there a part with one of the movies where they encountered goblins and the Goblin King in the mountains/caves (when Bilbo gets separated and finds the ring)? I've watched all of the Middle Earth films and never realized they could be orcs and vice versa. Certainly not arguing, just as a person who's knowledge is
limited to film, these things aren't obvious.

Anyway, I will say that Martin Freeman makes a delightful Bilbo and thought he was one of the only good things about the other films and just as good here.

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Katiemac, it's confusing because in The Hobbit (book) Tolkien says some things to make it seem like orcs and goblins are separate and/or subsets of each other. But in his later writings, he says that they are the same race.

That being said, the movies definitely differentiate between the two. Even in The Battle of The Five Armies, there are the orcs, and then there are those goblin mercenaries who show up for a bit, and they look like different races.

thisprovinciallife said:

ETA: Yes, me too! Did you see our first few posts about him/how they didn't really show that his arrival with the eagles was the turning point in the battle? I hope he's in the extended version.

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Yes. Just got back from the movie and caught up on all the comments.

katiemac said:

But wasn't there a part with one of the movies where they encountered goblins and the Goblin King in the mountains/caves (when Bilbo gets separated and finds the ring)? I've watched all of the Middle Earth films and never realized they could be orcs and vice versa. Certainly not arguing, just as a person who's knowledge is
limited to film, these things aren't obvious.

Anyway, I will say that Martin Freeman makes a delightful Bilbo and thought he was one of the only good things about the other films and just as good here.

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Yeah, it's confusing, and I thought they were supposed to be two races, too, but in Tolkien's writing, goblins are referred to exclusively in The Hobbit and in LOTR the term switches to orc, and Tolkien later wrote that they're in fact different words for the same race.

Though it does seem like the movies differentiate them somewhat, but I imagine it's more of a matter of different tribes of the same race than completely separate creatures, just as the movies seem to differentiate orcs that come from different masters/regions and give each clan unique designs.

Just saw the third Hobbit movie tonight. I was okay with the first, incredibly underwhelmed with the second, but I really enjoyed this one.

Three takeaways from tonight's viewing:
1. Wranglers must abide by the Code (sorry, this was from a long and enjoyable deconstruction of the credits as they rolled. If anyone else had stayed, they would have thought we were loons).
2. That pig is dynamite. As are the bighorn sheep and the elk.
3. You do not EVER want to p*ss off Galadriel.

ETA: My understanding of the five armies were dwarves, men, elves, orcs and eagles.

2. That pig is dynamite. As are the bighorn sheep and the elk.

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The sheep were one of those little delightful surprises that helped differentiate from LOTR.

The movie got plot, action, emotions and above all the panorama of all the other middle earth movies. Martin is great, Richard is amazing as Thorin and every character has performed greatly.


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For Galadriel and Sauron, it isn't that she was able (as a member of the White Council) to drive the Necromancer from Dol Guldur, but rather that Sauron, after achieving his purpose withdrew to Mordor of his own will, allowed them to think so.

amergina said:

You know the best part for me?

When I realized who was singing the end credit song.

(Which was before they showed his name. Because one of the most haunting parts of LOTR is when he's singing in RotK.)

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Totally agree!

I saw it yesterday. I really enjoyed it. I didn't mind the LotR additions (I love Galadriel; they could stick her in the next Marvel movie, and I'd be "Okay, cool!"). I've never read any of the books, but I've seen most of the Middle Earth films in the theater (after renting Fellowship on VHS). I have the theatrical LotR on DVD and the extended edition on Blu-ray. I now feel kind of sad, like a long journey has come to an end.

Sage said:

I don't have any quarrels with the storyline. But I was really disappointed by the look of the movie. All the Hobbit/LotR movies have had this epic look to them, and this one just lacked that quality. And I don't know if it was a weird effect in 3D or on the IMAX, but to me it looked like almost everything was sped up. It made me really hate the beginning because I kept going, "People don't move like that!" and it made it hard to focus on anyone. Totally cool if the elves had moved like that (and they did), but it felt like the scenes with humans were like that, and it made me grateful anytime someone was standing still.

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You probably saw it at high frame rate (48 fps). Traditionally, theatrical movies are shot and screened at 24 fps. The higher frame rate actually more closely approximates what the human eye sees, but because we're not used to movies being shown at that frame rate, it looks off. Some people like it though.

See here.

Personally, I don't like the effect, either, and prefer regular old 24 fps, which gives a more cinematic feel I think. Good news is you should be able to find a theater showing it at 24 fps, and it'll probably be 24 fps when you watch it at home unless you have a newfangled TV.

(My screening was in 24 fps, so I had no complaints.)

Sage said:

I don't have any quarrels with the storyline. But I was really disappointed by the look of the movie. All the Hobbit/LotR movies have had this epic look to them, and this one just lacked that quality. And I don't know if it was a weird effect in 3D or on the IMAX, but to me it looked like almost everything was sped up. It made me really hate the beginning because I kept going, "People don't move like that!" and it made it hard to focus on anyone. Totally cool if the elves had moved like that (and they did), but it felt like the scenes with humans were like that, and it made me grateful anytime someone was standing still.

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It looked fine to me. By any chance, did you see it at 48fps? I heard that looks wonky.

kuwisdelu said:

You probably saw it at high frame rate (48 fps). Traditionally, theatrical movies are shot and screened at 24 fps. The higher frame rate actually more closely approximates what the human eye sees, but because we're not used to movies being shown at that frame rate, it looks off. Some people like it though.

See here.

Personally, I don't like the effect, either, and prefer regular old 24 fps, which gives a more cinematic feel I think. Good news is you should be able to find a theater showing it at 24 fps, and it'll probably be 24 fps when you watch it at home unless you have a newfangled TV.

(My screening was in 24 fps, so I had no complaints.)

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I detest 48 fps. It's closer to what you see with home-movies, and gives films the same effect. IMO, it removes some of the "magic" by making things look *too* real. I want my movies to have a fantastic or dream-like quality to them, and the hyper-realism blows the illusion.

I liked it...all right. There could have been more dragon - though, this movie is a great example of how to run a dragon in a game of Dungeons and Dragons (HINT: You don't land the dragon and have it use it's claw attacks, bozo. You fly in circles and drop 60 foot 30d6 fire damage breath weapons on the party to teach them to never ever fight dragons).

But I do have three HUGE GRIPES.

GRIPE NUMBER ONE: Legolas totally fucking stole the redheaded elf's kill. She should have killed the orc that killed Fili...or was it Kili? I get them confused.

GRIPE NUMBER TWO: The elves barely used their bows in the battle! I mean, come on, they ignore range penalties and get +2 Dex! Jesus Christ, people, play to your racial strengths!

GRIPE NUMBER THREE: For a series of movie about dwarves, there was very little digging involved.

I was really looking forward to this, but I found myself bored out of my mind watching it. Smaug's scene was too short, there was WAY WAY WAYYYY too much Alfrid Lickspittle, and the final army battle felt emotionally distant (who are these dudes dying? eh, faceless mooks, mostly) and pointless. It didn't seem true to the book at all, at least, not the way I remember it.

I did *love* Smaug!Thorin, though. That was fantastic. So was Billy Connelly dwarf! And everything that happened in the crumbling towers -- Thorin, Fili and Kili, Legolas with his videogame quicktime event mastery -- was super fun.

It was just a long, long build up to that excellent ending, and the pacing felt really wonky.

Amerigina, Dream Weaver, totally agree! I was like, is that Billy Boyd!? Yes, it must be him! So surprised because never heard him sing anywhere besides RotK.

If I hadn't been obsessed with Legolas as a teen fangirl in the earlier trilogy, I would have been really annoyed with his expanded role in all the Hobbit movies. He nearly killed Thorin's orc for him and he did kill Evangeline Lilly's orc. But he was fun to watch, so I'll forgive it. And I really enjoyed seeing him FINALLY run out of arrows (took 13 years! did he run out in LotR? gosh, I'm slipping because I can't remember now, but didn't think he did) and use not just the knives but a sword.

As I was going into the theater, there was this poster of Cate Blanchett with this almost romantic look on her face, reaching for Ian McKellan. That really annoyed me. I'm sure I said something like, "they'd better not hint at something romantic between the two of them, I'll be so annoyed. I was all set not to like Galadriel's scene here, and ended up really enjoying watching Saruman and Elrond kick some ghost (wraith?) ass.

So, I may be in the minority, but I really enjoyed this movie and watching the elves and dwarves fight together rekindled a little of the magic of the original trilogy for me.

There were some good moments. But I've lost my ability to enjoy these movies. Again and again, Peter Jackson and the writers choose halfwit, cheesy cinematic cliches. Throughout the six movies, every time they left something out, it was a good choice, but every time they added something new, it was hacky. Just bad writing.

ETA: I should note, though, that the acting was fine (except for some egregious overacting, as throughout the series of movies). Don't know who decided Dwarves are Scottish, but it was good to see Billy Connolly (looking like a character from Warcraft with a cartoonishly large hammer). And the material world of the movies remains amazing. Not just the locations, but the sets, the sculptures and decorations, the props and costumes, all the little bits of artwork, are great. And especially the weapons and armour. WETA had to create, for each group, equipment that looked functional and plausible without looking like the gear of any specific historical time and place. The Dwarves made me miss fighting in chainmail; if I ever have disposable income again, I'll get a new hauberk.

I caught it today. It was strange, I think. It was a bittersweet experience...the final trip with Peter Jackson to Middle-Earth, but in the end it's like getting a beach house with your sister-in-law for six years in a row...you know you just wouldn't go that seventh time anyway. Bilbo Watson was solid. Smaug went quick. Thorin was pretty much a major dick through 93% of the film. Lee Pace was good. I also like Tauriel. And Legolas's impossible action sequence was fun.

Hey, some one remind me (SPOILER QUESTION): Did Thorin die in the book? I don't remember that at all.

I actually liked that they gave more of a reason for why Thorin became such an asshole.

I just saw it today, and honestly, I was fairly disappointed. It just doesn't stand like the rest of the movies do.

Now, I have no gripes at all with the actors and their work. It's pretty much all filmmaking issues that ruin it for me. It was said during the filming that The Hobbit was originally supposed to just be two movies and it was a studio decision to stretch it into three, and I think it shows. (Seriously, did we need that psychadelic swirling gold scene around Thorin? And how many times did it cut between Tauriel and Kili before he actually died?)

I can't help pointing out the horrible cliffhanger between Desolation and Battle either. Smaug deserved either finishing Desolation on his own, or more than a 20 minute death as the beginning of Battle.

Finally, how much of the Battle did we actually see? A lot in the city, but outside of that it was sporadic shots of the dwarves fighting the orcs. We didn't see much at all of the final push, just the arrival of the eagles and Beorn, a quickie shot of them tearing through orcs, and then the battle was won. I would've loved to have actually seen more of the conflict for which the movie was named.

As far as the difference between Orcs and Goblins, they are different races as far as the movies are concerned. For example, the Uruk's were created by breeding the two together, and while Goblins can't go out in the sun, Orcs can. Whether they're made that way in the books I don't know, but for the movies, it's a departure that I think works.

But yeah. I wasn't happy with the movie. :-/