How to query a long book?

Coincidently forget to mention the word count in the query?

Honestly, I'm not sure there's much you can do. You can't hide its length. Even if you didn't mention it in the query and got a full request anyway, the agent would notice pretty quickly. You can't write in the query, "I know it seems long, but it's SUPER AWESOME, trust me!" (Well, you can, but that would be an auto-reject even faster.) If you're convinced it can't be split, the best you can do is make the query and opening sparkle and hope that's enough.

I'm there with you. I've got a novel that all my betas loved, but it's in a sub-genre that's been beaten to death at this point. I've got to face facts that I'm starting at a disadvantage and even a really awesome query and opening page might not overcome that.

Still, gotta keep hoping. Best of luck to you!

Considering I got rejections specifically citing length as the reason on a book that was only 160k, I'd have to think your chances with a 250k book aren't very good at all. You might be better off just writing another book, one that matches the length expectations of the publishing industry. You have a lot more leeway with length once you've published other works.

rscullison said:

I'm almost ready to start sending queries, but my book is long (250k) and I know that is highly likely to be a problem. Books of that length have been published by first time authors, but I'm aware that it's a rarity.

I've given the manuscript to eight beta readers, who have all finished it and returned their critiques to me, but 90% of it is minor issues with wording and some of those how-did-I-miss-that typos, and none of them said a thing about the length, and in printed form, the thing was huge.

Even when I directly asked them what they thought about the length, none of them said it felt long, and the pacing and amount of stuff happening was great (several stayed up late to finish, which I take as a good sign).

It's epic fantasy, non-YA, but I've done plenty of reading on the subject and I'm aware it's basically double the normal first time author length. I've gone over it and over it, looking for any place I could split it, but there are no good places which would provide a satisfactory ending.

I'm not against the idea of finding the best split place and doing substantial rewrites, if that ends up being necessary, though I'd prefer not to.

TL;DR, what I'm asking is how do I get people to actually take a look at this long manuscript without auto-rejecting?

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You probably don't.

Your only shot would be a very tightly-written query, and/or not mentioning wc, but they'll see it eventually, and I'm guessing it's an auto-reject.

I'm also guessing you can cut the hell out of it. It's possible that's not possible, but exceedingly unlikely. Once you've got 50 posts, you're welcome to put a section up in SYW and see what people you don't know think.

Then again Pat Rothfuss got a deal for Name of the wind at 1000 pages...

The length will be an issue, but it is epic fantasy which is a long genre. If the writing is good enough to interest then, in theory, it shouldn't be a barrier. I wouldn't avoid mentioning the length - an agent will see through that quickly - but I'd make sure my query reflected the length and that it's merited. Also, perhaps, show willingness to solve it - suggest it could be presented as two books (if it can) but that you feel it merits the longer length? But if its 250k words because it should be (in my experience, they rarely are, though, and it might be worth hunting out some specialist epic betas if you haven't already (there are specialist sff writing sites out there eg sffchronicles.com have a strong aspiring writing section with a number of epic writers) and seeing what they think?

I agree with Unimportant's advice here. Make sure the MS is as tightly written and polished as humanly possible (we had had threads in Ask the Agent before about this topic). Make sure that your query is so absolutely amazing that the agent must look at your pages. And write another book because 250k is more likely as a second or third book than a first. They don't have to come out in the order you wrote them.

Word back from the World Fantasy Convention was that every NY editor wanted EPIC so maybe your timing is good. If every word of the 250k is really justifed then there will be interest given the current state of the market.

Springs2 said:

Then again Pat Rothfuss got a deal for Name of the wind at 1000 pages...

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I think Rothfuss also mentioned getting a lot of rejections until he'd won a few writing contests.

With that said, it doesn't hurt to try to cut (even getting it to 200k might open a few doors) + make sure you have a tight query.

Rothfuss made a calculated risk to enter a self-contained section of 'Name of the Wind' for the Writers of the Future contest. He won. That got him some notice.

Don't count on that working again (though many of us keep trying)

OTOH, I am also hearing that every major pub wants as many flavors of well-written epic fantasy as possible, so this is a good time.

You might be better served by Lynn Flewelling's first novel, which was so gigantic in 1995 that she had to cut it in half. You can't see the seam now, or it flows naturally enough with the plot you don't care. Look again at your mms and see if there's at least one break point.

Just adding a +1 to Unimportant's advice. Waylander's con advice is very interesting to know as well.

Unimportant said:

That's great. But, in reality, readers would need to think it's TWICE as good, and would be willing to pay TWICE AS MUCH, compared to a standard-length fantasy novel.

While it's possible an agent will look at it, you are, as you know, up against it: debut author with a very long novel. Granted, epic fantasy is a genre that expects long novels, but still....

I can see three choices:
1. Produce an AWESOME query that an agent simply cannot ignore, and make it so tightly worded that the agent will assume the book itself is not over written or wandering.

2. Cut the story down by about 50%. Yes, that will mean chopping out a lot of minor plot lines and side characters. If an agent then is interested and offers to represent it, you can let them know that you have a much longer, more in-depth version, and the agent can pick which one to pitch to editors.

3. Write another book. Query that one and get an agent, and have that be your debut book, with the longer book being published later.

Editing to add: Choice #4. Add in a bit of storyline that can be successfully concluded halfway through, break it into two books, and either make them stand alone and query the first one as "with series potential", or query it as a duology.

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I agree with this. I'm going to add:

While you have passed the MS through some beta-readers, I doubt (because I don't have the MS before me) that every single word is needed. I come across a ton of writers with these looooong novels all the time, even some who have had dozens of beta-readers, and a lot of the time when you get someone critical behind it the writers find out how much fluff there really is.

I suggest that when you get 50+ post, put your first chapter into the Share Your Work section. The critics there can really cut into your writing and see if you're overwriting, or adding fluff, or just have a needless first chapter. Then if that goes swimmingly, seek some very critical beta-readers.

Lop it into 2, or 3 seperate books? I'm noticing among friends that trade publish that their follow-up book is a sequel rather than a stand-alone.

My vote is for writing another book and accept that this one might have to be your second or third novel. Ain't nothing wrong with that.

Osulagh said:

While you have passed the MS through some beta-readers, I doubt (because I don't have the MS before me) that every single word is needed. I come across a ton of writers with these looooong novels all the time, even some who have had dozens of beta-readers, and a lot of the time when you get someone critical behind it the writers find out how much fluff there really is.

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Agreed. I once read a novel by a writer who claimed it had to be that long because every word was carefully chosen and absolutely necessary. The novel started with several paragraphs of description that ended by stating the obvious, e.g. "Morning Glory stood sixteen hands, had a beautiful bay coat, was sired by the Kentucky Derby winner Cirrus, and liked oats. Also, Morning Glory was a horse."

A very long book seems unlikely to gain much interest, but I'd hate to dogmatically state it will gain none. Yours MAY be that rare exception.

If so, it's possible that a publisher will sell it as two volumes, possibly with a campaign describing it as an event book: long but compelling enough to publish it that way. Again, the odds are against this, but you might want to risk all the rejections in hopes of that one acceptance.

There's another possibility. If you've created a rich world and fascinating characters, the chances are you have several books in you about this world, rather like Game of Thrones. Do you have ideas for other books, shorter ones? Possibly with one of the secondary characters from the original book as the primary character? Perhaps if you write that and submit it your long book will find more favor when the shorter book gets published.

Most pro writers don't depend on one blockbuster book. They write more and more. And as time goes by may gain more and more followers because each book acts as an ad for all the others.

Good luck.

My first book is 270k words. It's an epic fantasy. I self published...

Was it a mistake? I don't know, but I'm not prepared to go through a year's worth of rejections by people who won't even read it because it's not 110k.

Book I is published and selling. Book II is nearly finished and though it will come in at a more reasonable length, it's still going to be 180k.

The third book will be a prequel, which I'll give away as an eBook and will only be a teaser - 40k...

I don't care. I'm telling the story the way I want.

So far my readers love it, so I'll keep writing for them.

There is no such thing as a book too long to sell, if it's good enough. A books that's twice as long as guidelines say needs to be spectacular to sell. Unless an agent or editor thinks it will be a bestseller, they probably won't touch it.

I never really know what to say in this situation. It's incredibly common with new writers, and it puts a hurdle in your path that shouldn't be there. A huge hurdle.

Sometimes you just have to look at the book as an object lesson of what not to do. Length is always a choice, and you make the choice in the choice in the first few chapters.

I love reading. I'd quit writing, and most of anything else I do, before I'd give up reading, but there aren't even many famous writers out there who could make me read a 250,000 word novel. No more than three or four, tops. It's just too long. When new writers write overly long, they don't structure the story so it can be broken in half properly, or in a way that would let it be a trilogy. The structure is one long novel, or nothing, and such a long novel from a new writer is almost certain to lose money for the publisher. Most first novels do, and the longer the novel, the more money the publisher loses.

But you query it just like you would any other novel. Be certain to include the first four or five pages with any query. Sometimes really well-written, interesting first pages can make an agent or editor want to look at a manuscript, even if it is far too long.

That's what I would do. And while it's out, write another novel that comes in at the right length. Writing novels that are too far out of guidelines length is a form of self-sabotage, and makes it incredibly tough to get published.

rscullison said:

- Get to 50 posts so I can post in SYW. 8 beta readers is good, but I need more input from more people, especially people who don't know me and don't have to worry about running into me at the store. Awkward....

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Was this bolded bit a wee bit tongue-in-cheek, or do you know all of your 8 betas in real life? If so, I wonder if this is why none of them have suggested major cuts -- big changes are often hard for betas to suggest even when they don't know you well. They could be trying to avoid damaging a friendship by being critical.

Share Your Work should definitely be a worthwhile experience! Looking forward to taking a look at your work when you get there.

With 250K word, surely you can find somewhere in the book to put a reasonable break point? I mean, all good books have tensions and a short lull in between so readers can breath, and a lull where the MC is ready for another chapter of his/her life will be a reasonable break point, I think.

I also do feel that the tide of reading market is changing. I myself do not pick up a regular novel length book unless it is simply awesome, like off the top awesome. That book had better earned some acclaimed awards, and the writing will need to be so tight and vivid before I will venture it. With a big book I expect epic adventure that will hold me through, with vivid characterization. These simply cannot be done in a regular book length. I don't think I'm alone in this mindset. All my favorite books are four or five novel length. Besides, with eBook becomes more and more popular, the cost of paper, which is what drives the book length, becomes less an issue.

LJackson said:

With a big book I expect epic adventure that will hold me through, with vivid characterization. These simply cannot be done in a regular book length. I don't think I'm alone in this mindset.

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If your point is that an epic can't be told in, say, an 80K novel, yes. But I would not agree that vivid characterization requires 150K or more.

Sometimes I'm in the mood for a long, meaty novel, and sometimes I prefer a short sweet story. I think it's great that both kinds of book are available for the readers who want them.

Besides, with eBook becomes more and more popular, the cost of paper, which is what drives the book length, becomes less an issue.

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That's not the only issue to take into consideration. A longer book, for instance, requires more editing and copyediting than a shorter book, and those cost money too. See this thread for more information.

Marian Perera said:

See this thread for more information.

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I was just thinking that the OP should take a gander at that thread!

Unimportant said:

OMG, you read a novel by Anne Rice?!

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Hey! Vittorio was pretty tightly written actually. Other than that, her earlier works are wallow worthy, but damn long. Then again, I don't mind wallowing in words with the right book. Most just aren't the right book.