How to query a long book?

Maryn said:

On a side note, part of this discussion is related to some adults' insistence that's it's wise and kind to tell children they can be anything, do anything, if only they want it badly enough and work hard enough.

That's a flat-out lie, wrong for so many reasons. ....

I'd rather those with hoop dreams, or literary dreams, be directed toward realistic goals rather than be told they have a shot at something which is not ever going to be within their grasp.

Maryn, who doesn't have a hoop over the garage any more

Click to expand...

Hopefully still on topic, in the general universe of querying a long book vs shortening it to achieve a goal, and an aside of whether or not it is worth pushing forward with something unsustainable, a recent interview with Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs:

http://yellowhammernews.com/faithandculture/alabamian-gets-schooled-mike-rowe-dirty-jobs/

Just because you’re passionate about something doesn’t mean you won’t suck at it. And just because you’re determined to improve doesn’t mean that you will. Does that mean you shouldn’t pursue a thing you’re passionate about?” Of course not. The question is, for how long, and to what end?

Click to expand...

Old Hack said:

If that's what you got from my comments then not only are you reading things into them which just aren't there, Katrina, you're seeing the exact opposite of how I feel, what I think, and what I intended.

Click to expand...

I do not think you intended it. I do not think most people who give that advice intend it. My only objection was how that particular line of advice can come across. Maybe I need to worry less about these things and just be more upfront and honest with people; I don't know. It's just something that's bothered me before (again, across a range of places), and in this instance, I happened to blurt out my feelings when I probably would've been better off keeping quiet.

Old Hack said:

It's not a question of discouraging people from trying, or thinking their lives would be healthier if they abandoned their hopes of publication: it's a question of respecting them enough to be honest with them.

Click to expand...

My example was, admittedly, an extreme case. I was trying to say that if I saw a situation with someone whose work did not seem to be improving and who was causing themselves an unhealthy amount of stress in their quest to get published, I might advise that the hobby would be better off remaining as a hobby.

I have thankfully never been in this situation, although I did advise a friend recently to stop trying to finish a story for a particular deadline when the stress was causing more issues than the deadline was worth.

Old Hack, if I caused any hurt feelings by my response to your words, I apologize. My reply to you was a sleep-deprived, knee-jerk reaction, and though I still stand by much of what I said in this discussion, anything that suggested you were trying to put people down was inaccurate, poorly phrased, and not how I see you.

Katrina S. Forest said:

Old Hack, if I caused any hurt feelings by my response to your words, I apologize. My reply to you was a sleep-deprived, knee-jerk reaction, and though I still stand by much of what I said in this discussion, anything that suggested you were trying to put people down was inaccurate, poorly phrased, and not how I see you.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the apology, but there was really no need: you're fine. Discussion is good.

Maryn said:

On a side note, part of this discussion is related to some adults' insistence that's it's wise and kind to tell children they can be anything, do anything, if only they want it badly enough and work hard enough.

That's a flat-out lie, wrong for so many reasons. I will never be a power forward in the NBA, and all my work and wanting will not change that.

As others said above, work and wanting could make me a better basketball player, and I could join local recreational leagues and play all my life. I'd rather those with hoop dreams, or literary dreams, be directed toward realistic goals rather than be told they have a shot at something which is not ever going to be within their grasp.

Maryn, who doesn't have a hoop over the garage any more

Click to expand...

I might fucking love you a little for this




Quick, who is sick to death of the notion everyone is goddamn special--some folks won't be, and the vast, VAST majority of those who are busted their fucking ass becoming that way, and too few people appreciate or understand that tiny, critical bit of nuance.

I'm special though, Quick.

Ha!

Yes, Hack, you're special.

This has been a great discussion. I can see all points. My sympathies go with Katrina, who has had a far kinder reaction to slush reading than I did. My experience in slush - and in 20 years of reading fan fiction - has taught me that some people are just never going get there. At least not from judging their current output.

That's what is judged in the slush pile. Not an author's career potential. Not their years of hard work to reach this point. Not their scintillating moments of narrative genius. Just a snapshot of a book, in query form. Its length is only one factor. Added to other positives or negatives, mms length can become a major factor. It may make someone else's snapshot more appealing.

Is there an implication that those who say 'You're not going to make it' consciously or subconsciously believe they are somehow better? Why should that matter?

I think 'better' in this case can mean lucky, observant, or diligent. The lucky artist or writer stumbles into something, and has just enough talent and skill to take advantage of it. The observant writer sees hints that an genre might break into high gear, already has an interest, so pushes a bit harder and makes bank. The diligent author strives to learn all they can, to maximize their potential.

I'm that latter kind of writer, advancing my craft at a slow, plodding pace. Learning some lessons has taken me far longer than it should have (27 years!) I stopped writing my original fiction several times. I came back, though, and figured out enough to make a small part of my work publishable.

Self-esteem has an enormous role to play in a writer's life, true. But here's the cruel truth: Self-esteem has to be self-earned, before it's really useful. I think leading someone on with vague encouragement (when their work is dreadful, their critical thinking skills lacking, and their background knowledge nearly non-existent) is even more cruel than telling them 'Rethink your life goals'.

Not everyone can reach lofty goals. It just isn't in the cards. There's a damn good chance I will never be published. However, unless someone is suggesting that I might succeed with something else, I would hope they wouldn't suggest I readjust my goals. My goals are something to strive for. They are something I hope to one day achieve and work toward. I may never get there, but I don't need anyone whispering in my ear and throwing doubts my way. I'll take the encouragement since I'm likely to self-deprecate anyway. My life's been filled with enough negativity. If it makes me happy, keep the truth away. Some people are happy working their entire life toward something they won't achieve. More than likely, they may already know anyway.

I think it's good to have goals, even lofty ones. Even goals that may not be attainable. Goals give us an incentive to step out of our comfort zones, try harder, learn more.

But I think it's important to be honest with ourselves before setting goals. We need to take stock of where we are and where we want to be, look at the gap between the two and take an honest inventory. I think we need to know ourselves, our skillset, mindset, all of that. We need to do our homework, find out what reaching those goals might entail. Maybe, with hard work, good luck and all the rest, we might be able to get there, but we need to honestly decide whether or not that's a possibility, and whether or not we're willing to do the work to give ourselves that chance.

If not, the best course of action might be to redefine the goals we've set. It's all predicated on each person's honest self-evaluation. Without that, we run the risk of disappointment. We'd be leading with our proverbial chins.

Having said all that, I think the voice we need to listen to most is our own. If we're honest with ourselves, what others tell us shouldn't matter. In a perfect world, it wouldn't. But, you know. . .