14 Authors you should never read, says Buzzfeed

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JustSarah

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Even if we took buzz feed seriously (it's just mainstream news to me), the list seems randomly picked. I bet you won't find one literary author over the last decade that agrees with anyone about everything.

Why doesn't it mentioned Frank Hubert or that one guy that wrote a play in second person, if we are going to pick random ones out of a hat. Hey, I found a bunny rabbit. He must only like carrots.
 
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Amadan

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Where did you get your title from? It has nothing to do with the article. It's not even an exaggeration of what the article is about; it's a complete misrepresentation. I have no idea why you posted this:

Because I suspect that the list author's intent was not merely to say "Aren't these people's views fascinating? I just thought you'd be interested."

But all the observations about Buzzfeed being horrible, unjournalistic, and clickbait are quite true, as I acknowledged. I make no claims about the value of my post - it was merely a passing article that bemused me enough to write something, and it was about authors, so I felt like writing it here.

I really am surprised so few people knew about Orson Scott Card, but then, I knew about Marion Zimmer Bradley years before the recent wave of shock and outrage, since that information had been online for over a decade.
 

Lillith1991

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And he wrote himself as weeping about it as unjust. It was official church doctrine at the time and he would have had a difficult time going against it.

Yup. Also, he's been dead for hundreds of years. Whether he was for or against it really isn't relevant to things unlike Cards actually trying to make sure gay people don't aquire the same rights he has. Or, a writer who champions other reprehensible ways of thinking in our modern era.
 

buz

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Because I suspect that the list author's intent was not merely to say "Aren't these people's views fascinating? I just thought you'd be interested."

Why do you think this?

I think, in fact, it is just about presenting information. There's nothing to indicate otherwise. Sometimes when someone writes out "here is an interesting list of things about sharks" and says "Greenland sharks have poisonous flesh and can live 200 years" that's really all they mean to say, not "OMG KILL THE POISONOUS IMMORTAL SHARKS."

But all the observations about Buzzfeed being horrible, unjournalistic, and clickbait are quite true, as I acknowledged. I make no claims about the value of my post - it was merely a passing article that bemused me enough to write something, and it was about authors, so I felt like writing it here.
Well, ok, that's fair. However I find the "clickbait" reference kind of ironic considering the way you chose to title the thread vs. the actual title of the article.
 

Amadan

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Why do you think this?

Context and the particular selection. But a suspicion, is all I called it. My opinion. I do not claim knowledge, let alone proof.

Well, ok, that's fair. However I find the "clickbait" reference kind of ironic considering the way you chose to title the thread vs. the actual title of the article.

Mayhap.
 

Viridian

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Because I suspect that the list author's intent was not merely to say "Aren't these people's views fascinating? I just thought you'd be interested."

Really? Because that's exactly what Buzzfeed is. The fact that this journalist chose to publicize negative information about these authors does not mean that this journalist thinks that these authors should be boycotted. It's possible, but it's unrelated, and I'm tired of seeing people crying "censorship!" everytime someone criticizes a writer's beliefs.

Sometimes it's surprising and interesting to learn that a favorite author had bigoted beliefs. I can absolutely see why someone would write an article on that -- because people are interested in it.

But all the observations about Buzzfeed being horrible, unjournalistic, and clickbait are quite true, as I acknowledged.

Your title is clickbait. The fact that there are people here complaining about Buzzfeed for using clickbait titles is pretty ironic. The fact that you are complaining about is just...

I don't even have a word for it. Bold, I guess. Are you really unaware?

For anyone who cares, this is the actual title of the article: 14 Authors You Might Not Know Had Bigoted Views
While their novels and stories have earned them countless fans, their controversial personal views might surprise you.
 

Amadan

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Your title is clickbait. The fact that there are people here complaining about Buzzfeed for using clickbait titles is pretty ironic. The fact that you are complaining about is just...

I don't even have a word for it. Bold, I guess. Are you really unaware?

I didn't complain about them being clickbaity.
 

asnys

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How are they relevant to this discussion? All of them are thousands of years to a few hundred dead, their views aren't hurting anyone since they're dead. Also, they're products of their times. Half this list is contemporary like Card, and the other half is already dead. Personally, I don't give a rat's ass if Enders Game is the best thing in the world. The fact Card wants to stop me from having the same rights as him and is willing to back up those beliefs doesn't make me want to read his work. There's plenty of things out there for me to read by people who don't have the same views as him, so I'm not missing anything.

I'm not going to insist you read Card, because frankly I don't like his books anyway. :tongue

More seriously, I think there's a better case to be made on boycotting living authors with repugnant views. That's a much tougher question; I think I would ultimately come down on the side of treating the art separately from the artist, but it's not a viewpoint I feel strongly about. But half the entries on the list are folks who are dead - I mean, T. S. Eliot?
 

Lillith1991

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I'm not going to insist you read Card, because frankly I don't like his books anyway. :tongue

More seriously, I think there's a better case to be made on boycotting living authors with repugnant views. That's a much tougher question; I think I would ultimately come down on the side of treating the art separately from the artist, but it's not a viewpoint I feel strongly about. But half the entries on the list are folks who are dead - I mean, T. S. Eliot?

Yea. I did raise an eyebrow at all the dead authors on the list. It's like ok, and? I am supposed to be bothered by what someone who's dead thought? People are products of their times, and so were all those dead authors on that list I bet. It did seem a bit like the author of the buzzfeed thingy was picking on dead people an awful lot.

As for treating art separately, I can't do that. If it is say someone actively trying to curtail my rights or make sure I don't get the same rights they do, then I can't do that. I also wouldn't be able to feel anything but grossed out if an author I enjoy who's still living turned out to be a pedophile, or if the author supported something like NAMBLA. In those cases, it's more than just a simple opinion, their views are actually harming living, breathing people. And I can't abide by giving such people money when I know they're doing that type of stuff. I can't deal with knowing my money may be used so they can hurt others.
 
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Sonsofthepharaohs

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How are they relevant to this discussion? All of them are thousands of years to a few hundred dead, their views aren't hurting anyone since they're dead.

I just... I'm a bit speechless at that remark. So, just because something was written thousands of years ago, does that mean it has no power today?

I could spend the rest of my life listing books by people long dead that are still influencing people today, for good or ill, but... I don't really think I need to bother, because it's a pretty self evident truth.

Also, they're products of their times.

And so were half the people on that list. Authors are also products of their culture, upbringing etc, but I don't see how their influences have any bearing on whether or not we should read their published works. It would be like saying you can read Mein Kampf without any problem at all, because Hitler was just a product of his time, but you can't read OSC because... his homophobia was created in a vaccuum apparently?

And incidentally, my grandad met Roald Dahl at a veteran's dinner in an officer's mess, where they both reminisced about their experiences in the RAF during the war. My grandad said he was a thoroughly bloody nice bloke... but then again, my grandad was a raging racist, anti-semite and homophobe too. But yanno, product of his time... ;)



Sometimes when someone writes out "here is an interesting list of things about sharks" and says "Greenland sharks have poisonous flesh and can live 200 years" that's really all they mean to say, not "OMG KILL THE POISONOUS IMMORTAL SHARKS."

OMG, KILL THEM ALLL!!!!

Well, ok, that's fair. However I find the "clickbait" reference kind of ironic considering the way you chose to title the thread vs. the actual title of the article.

:ROFL:
 
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Albedo

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Buzzfeed What remains of the media industry in the 21st century is terrible because its entire business strategy is writing inflammatory headlines to rake in the ad revenue from people who say "WHAT?!" and righteously click.
It works, sadly.

Here, fixed this slightly ...



I've got no problem with reading dead bigots. It's the live ones I won't touch with a bargepole.
 

Hapax Legomenon

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It's odd that this article does not make distinctions between writers who are long dead, held currently repugnant views common to their time, and whose works are in the public domain and writers who are currently alive, hold currently repugnant views, and are actively using money made from their still copyrighted works to enforce those repugnant views on the rest of us.
 

kuwisdelu

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It would be like saying you can read Mein Kampf without any problem at all, because Hitler was just a product of his time, but you can't read OSC because... his homophobia was created in a vaccuum apparently?

Reading Mein Kampf doesn't give Nazis any of my money.

That I know of.
 

JustSarah

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And is there a distinction between public domain works that aren't like mouthpieces for their own political beliefs?

Like none of Dr. Suess' books were actually mouth pieces for supporting the holocaust. (The Lorax at least seems to support the exact opposite.)

I don't understand lumping non-political novels with novels that are used as political mouth pieces.
 

blacbird

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Ezra Pound?
Curzio Malaparte?

. . . the list could go on and on. Methinks we need to separate, at least to some degree, the beliefs of the authors from the work they produced. As long as those abhorrent beliefs do not permeate the work.

Roman Polanski has been a fugitive from U.S. justice, on a charge of statutory rape, for four decades now. But he is also, without much dispute, one of the finest directors of motion pictures who ever lived.

As for people like Eliot, Céline, Malaparte, their anti-Semitism doesn't cleary influence their work, near as I can see, and I've read a lot of all of them. Pound, who was probably worse than any, wound up imprisoned for many years for treason by U.S. military authorities. He's still regarded as a major influence on modern poetry, yet, oddly, very few people ever read his work. I've tried, and not found it offensive, but just obtuse and uninteresting. He's like a painter who understands nuances of color but can't quite assemble those colors into a pattern that pleases very many people.

Eliot, whom Pound championed, could do that, outside the sphere of his abhorrent personal beliefs regarding Jews. I can't find anything in "The Waste Land", "The Hollow Men", The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock" that reflects any of his anti-Semitism. But they rank among the finest, most powerful, and most influential poems in the English Language.

And good ol' Bill Shakespeare wasn't exactly a champion of Jews, was he? Go study The Merchant of Venice. That could have been written, without the poetic eloquence, by Joseph Goebbels. But we forgive him, because of his historical time.

I can even separate Card's work from his horrid attitudes, which he has expressed and is thoroughly documented as doing so. I just don't like his work as much as other people do. Solely on the basis of the printed page.

caw
 
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Lillith1991

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I just... I'm a bit speechless at that remark. So, just because something was written thousands of years ago, does that mean it has no power today?

I could spend the rest of my life listing books by people long dead that are still influencing people today, for good or ill, but... I don't really think I need to bother, because it's a pretty self evident truth.



And so were half the people on that list. Authors are also products of their culture, upbringing etc, but I don't see how their influences have any bearing on whether or not we should read their published works. It would be like saying you can read Mein Kampf without any problem at all, because Hitler was just a product of his time, but you can't read OSC because... his homophobia was created in a vaccuum apparently?

------cut for length------

Here's the thing, no OSC's homophobia wasn't created in a vaccume. But I do draw the line at someone actively trying to make sure people like me don't have rights, or curtail the ones we do currently have. It's the difference between say your garden variety racist, homophobe etc. who may never harm anyone and one that harms or attempts to harm the people they hate in some way. One is distasteful but I ain't going to freak out about it, the other I can't abide.

And to add to this but hey product of their time thing, since it bothers people. My own grandfather, who was a WW2 vet was less than pleased when my parents began seeing each other, because my father was black. Eventually he actually grew to like my dad in his own way, and my mom tells me he told her "why'd you break up, I liked him? What do you mean you're dating another one?" Didn't stop my gramps from loving me, my sister, or his other daughter's half-Khmer children. The man was most certainly a product of his time in my brain. That still wouldn't give him, OSC, or anyone the right to try to harm someone else because of the views instilled in them growing up. And I most certainly do consider what OSC does as someone trying to cause the only form of harm legally acceptable for him to cause to a group he hates.
 
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Albedo

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GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODWIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN

Look at it this way:

Orson Scott Card is alive
Orson Scott Card gets money every time you buy his books
Orson Scott Card actively works towards increasing the net misery in the world

Adolph Hitler is dead
Adolph Hitler does not get any money from sales of Mein Kampf
Adolph Hitler, unlike Orson Scott Card, can't work to increase the net misery in the world anymore


It's a pretty simple equation, IMO. Buying OSC's books increases suffering. That's no longer the case with AH.
 

Lillith1991

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It's odd that this article does not make distinctions between writers who are long dead, held currently repugnant views common to their time, and whose works are in the public domain and writers who are currently alive, hold currently repugnant views, and are actively using money made from their still copyrighted works to enforce those repugnant views on the rest of us.

Yes, I thought that very odd.
 

Viridian

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I think there's one thing people fail to keep in mind --

Reading someone's work and remembering them as a writer is one of the greatest things a reader can do for a writer. It's not about whether or not you're giving them money. You're giving them immortality.

Are you guys writers because you want people to buy your work and give you money, or because you enjoy it and want to share it with other people? I mean, I like money, but being a writer is a terrible way to go about getting it.

So when I choose not to read Ender's Game, it's not because I don't want to pay Orson Scott Card any money, it's because I don't want to pay him any attention. Even if he drops dead tomorrow.
 
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