The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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KellyS.

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Who is this in relation to PA?

Who is Victor Cretella III. In the Cert. of Limitied Partnership papers, it says he is the resident agent. I've just never heard that name prior to seeing it in those papers.
 

James D. Macdonald

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Several items:

1. Denial ("No, it can't be. PA is a traditional press.")

2. Anger ("Those bastards lied to me!")

Actually, for anger, I'd think it would be "It's those bobbleheads' fault that bookstores won't touch my book!"

Lots of the people who are on the PA boards are stuck between denial and anger.

For Lynn (and others), that "rejecting the rejection" trick and writing angry letters to the editor who didn't buy your book is common-enough. All editors see it from assorted unpublished writers. An older, wiser editor once advised: "Never reply; it only encourages them." So my advice is, when they send those bitchy letters about how you've missed the Golden Opportunity of Great Literature, just chuck 'em. Life's too short; you've got better things to do.

("Rejecting the rejection" is when the writer sends back the rejection slip with their own slip that says "Your rejection does not suit our current needs...." or marks up supposed grammatical errors in the rejection slip before sending it back. All the authors who try this stunt seem to believe that they invented it, that no one ever thought of it before, and that it's Intensely Clever and will Impress the Editor. Or something.)

If J. K. Rowling had given Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone to PA, yes, she would have only sold about fifty copies. But she'd have been overjoyed. Really.
 

KellyS.

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James D. Macdonald said:
Several items:


If J. K. Rowling had given Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone to PA, yes, she would have only sold about fifty copies. But she'd have been overjoyed. Really.


Good grief, can you imagine the price PA would have put on those books?
 

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KellyS. said:
Who is Victor Cretella III. In the Cert. of Limitied Partnership papers, it says he is the resident agent. I've just never heard that name prior to seeing it in those papers.

Victor Cretella III is an attorney who has acted for PA, and the author of truly embarassingly awful cease-and-desist letters. He never met a comma splice he didn't like and has unresolved issues regarding the definite and indefinite article.

Linguistic note of the day: barrister and barrator are not cognate.

Just in case, you were, like, you know wondering.

 
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KellyS.

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Oops was thinking of the fourth book. Goblet of Fire, in paperback version, comes to 752 pages.
 

Jaws

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James D. Macdonald said:
The paperback version of Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone is 320 pages. PA's price for a book of that length is $24.95.

Not so fast, esteemed Yog. That's in a 6x9 format. PA's default 5.25x8.25 format would be approximately 368 pages maintaining the same typeface, leading, and layout.

I do not believe that Goblet of Fire or Order of the Phoenix could be done in a single volume on the machines now in use, which (unless LS has upgraded in the last three months) spec. out at 512 pages.
 

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JennaGlatzer said:
Renee! You didn't like the visit from the Avatar Fairy? :cry:

Oh I do, I just needed an excuse for the Vin comments. That's why I added the need a new avatar comment. I do wish there were more avatars to choose from but really there are so many members here that the only way to get your own is to find it. Of course, Jenna, I'm still holding out for that Vin Diesel picture. LOL..


Sherry-- Sorry you had a bad day. Hopefully tomorrow will be better when Jenna scores us those pix. :Thumbs:

Ed-- You got it!
 
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needles

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James D. Macdonald said:
The paperback version of Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone is 320 pages. PA's price for a book of that length is $24.95.

Huh. My trade paperback version of Sorceror's Stone is 6.99 Merkin dollars.

ETA: Prolly not worth mentioning, but mine's 7.5 X 5.25, 312 pages. The 6.99 tag just struck me as mass-market, but inset assures me it's trade.
 
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James D. Macdonald

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Jaws said:
Not so fast, esteemed Yog. That's in a 6x9 format. PA's default 5.25x8.25 format would be approximately 368 pages maintaining the same typeface, leading, and layout.

In that case it would have been published at $28.95.

I do not believe that Goblet of Fire or Order of the Phoenix could be done in a single volume on the machines now in use, which (unless LS has upgraded in the last three months) spec. out at 512 pages.

Then they'd have rejected those books. (Gotta make up that 80% rejection rate somehow, right? They don't accept or reject books based on quality....)
 

triceretops

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It's disturbing to note that PA would stoop to printing a 130-page manuscript and call it a book or a novel. But I would have never imagined that they would allow a 70-page script to be regarded as a book. That has to be an all-time low.

When I began writing 20-years ago, I first consulted writing groups, fellow writers, agents, and editors (not to mention ate up every how-to book I could on the subject). They were all of the general (but firm) opinion that you do not write or submit the following manuscripts because of their economic infeasibility (also 100+ years of publishing experience, via tested marketing evaluation).
Most publishing houses are not interested in:

Books of poetry (selective market here)

Autobiographies (unless you're a Clinton)

Short story collections (unless you're James D. McDonald)

Biographies of family members (unless you're Paris Hilton)

Personal true-life accounts (unless subject overrides your non-notoriety)

Books under 60,000-70,000 words in length.

Personal diaries

And...I won't even get into politics and religion here, consider those subjects caution areas, or reserved for specialized markets. Let's not forget about some other gray areas: The family pet is the main protagonist, and mom writes about her first child birth...(bless the beasts and the children and I love moms--not being callous here).

It's just plain economics and market savy. Publishers can't take huge risks on risky books. YET, PA perpetuates and reinforces the myth that these are reasonable titles that "resonate" and are bound for brick & motar book stores.
"You've been given a chance as an artist. We won't intrude (edit)on your artistic style--you're free for the first time in your life to express the real you."

Yet, I am agog at the number of such titles that have been published by Punish America. There isn't an editor in the world that wouldn't have kindly (or gruffly) warned these people that such books were not accepted standards in the industry. When one publishes such a book, and it's snapped up by a so-called publisher, the instinct is to follow it up with something similar or sequential. To the same pub house. Over and over again.

Punish America has not only gathered a horrific number of scribes but has actually taught those writers how to unwrite and disregard viable books that appeal to a mass reading audience. HOW LONG IS IT GOING TO TAKE TO DEPROGRAM THEM? As for myself, I would personally like to mentor the PA authors on the "basics", the marketing savy of the industry (which has been wrenched from them, or avoided altogether by their previous Printer).

Right when these writers approached this publisher is when they needed the
most guidance. That is the real cruelty about PA--the long term effects.

Punish America is malignant. It wants to grow Stepford Scribes. But we ain't gonna let it happen. You 13 guests who are reading this right now...did you hear that?

Tri
 

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triceretops said:
It's just plain economics and market savy. Publishers can't take huge risks on risky books.

What makes a risky book risky?

The public in general isn't interested in reading it.

================

Other things that PA people believe that aren't true:

That only 1% (or 2%) of books are shelved in bookstores. NOT TRUE. Among the books that are intended for bookstore distribution, darned-near all get shelved. (While vanity books may be intended (by their authors) for shelving, on the other hand, darned-near none get it.)

That only one book in three makes a profit. NOT TRUE. One book in three earns out -- that is, makes more in royalties than the advance. That's because publishers try to set the advance equal to the amount the book will earn in royalties, and they're pretty good at predicting that amount. A book that doesn't earn out can make a tidy profit -- for everyone concerned.
 

tab

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hi all

Medievalist said:


Victor Cretella III is an attorney who has acted for PA, and the author of truly embarassingly awful cease-and-desist letters. He never met a comma splice he didn't like and has unresolved issues regarding the definite and indefinite article.

Linguistic note of the day: barrister and barrator are not cognate.

Just in case, you were, like, you know wondering.

Victor Cretella, III
Gordon & Simmons

Born 1970; Admitted 1996; University of Connecticut, B.A.; University of Baltimore, J.D.


I'm impressed that they even have an attorney. I was under the impression that one of their illustrious junior staff was handling their legal work. I hope I don't sound so amateur 9 years after entering the bar.

**aka "publishorperish" on the former board.***
 
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needles

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triceretops said:
<snippity doo>

Most publishing houses are not interested in:

Books of poetry (selective market here)

Autobiographies (unless you're a Clinton)

Short story collections (unless you're James D. McDonald)

Biographies of family members (unless you're Paris Hilton)

Personal true-life accounts (unless subject overrides your non-notoriety)

Books under 60,000-70,000 words in length.

Personal diaries

Tri

Right, right...'zactly. I've noticed quite a few PA books that were either a flat but dutifully chronological play-by-play account of significant events in the author's life, or a thinly-veiled autobio in the guise of fiction. I've also seen a lot of resentment on the PA boards directed at traditional publishers who apparently are short-sighted for preferring stuff that's more marketable. And then I see gushing appreciation for PA for recognizing the value of these intensely personal projects, and for also recognizing that to tweak it (edit it) in any significant way to better appeal to the masses would be to screw with, I don't know, the integrity of their message or the purity of their "voices".

I get the sense that many of PA authors do have interesting stories to tell, and I'd be completely receptive to reading them. But--and I know this is rude--I'm not sure I'm in the market for first-person accounts of Vicky's or Barb's or Cheryl's bout with breast cancer/a stillbirth/an alcoholic and/or abusive first husband. I mean, come to my cubicle and we'll discuss. Write about it and come to terms. But to have PA give them the hope of "touching" or "inspiring" so many thousands of others --which seems to be all so many of these authors want--to then have what seems like tangible evidence that the world at-large doesn't much care about it seems cruel.
 
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tab

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needles said:
Right, right...'zactly. I've noticed quite a few PA books that were either a flat but dutifully chronological play-by-play account of significant events in the author's life, or a thinly-veiled autobio in the guise of fiction. I've also seen a lot of resentment on the PA boards directed at traditional publishers who apparently are short-sighted for preferring stuff that's more marketable. And then I see gushing appreciation for PA for recognizing the value of these intensely personal projects, and for also recognizing that to tweak it (edit it) in any significant way to better appeal to the masses would be to screw with, I don't know, the integrity of their message or the purity of their "voices".

I get the sense that many of PA authors do have interesting stories to tell, and I'd be completely receptive to reading them. But--and I know this is rude--I'm not sure I'm in the market for first-person accounts of Vicky's or Barb's or Cheryl's bout with breast cancer/a stillbirth/an alcoholic and/or abusive first husband. I mean, come to my cubicle and we'll discuss. Write about it and come to terms. But to have PA give them the hope of "touching" or "inspiring" so many thousands of others --which seems to be all so many of these authors want--to then have what seems like tangible evidence that the world at-large doesn't much care about it seems cruel.

Therein lies why PA and other vanity publishers fill such a crucial niche in the market.
 

needles

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Never mind me.

Anything I had to say Triceretops said so much better.
 
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DaveKuzminski said:
Personally, as I stated recently, I think that reviews are useful only when when those come from someone whose name or position is recognizable to the public. Otherwise, it's a nice gesture, but it's really a waste of time. Besides, if your name or review doesn't help the other person's book make more sales, do you want that author thinking you didn't say something positive enough?

I agree with this. Posting bad reviews for no apparent reason is childish and pointless, especially when they are as poorly written as the ones posted here for examples. Most people browsing that book will justifiably think a 6 year old wrote the review.

I'll go even further to say really bad reviews may have an opposite affect to the one intended. People reading them will wonder what the reviewer is trying to keep them away from and would just have to buy the book. A lack of reviews speaks louder than bad reviews anyday.
 

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Apparently, one Amazon reviewer...

...for "Atlanta Nights" believes, or wants to promote the belief, that the poser Travis Tea is, in fact, the real deal. Thank you, Amazon Slammer, for such infantile tactics. The review is as follows:

The Unpardonable Sin
, February 24, 2005

Reviewer:A. Gast (A Conscientious Objector) - See all my reviews
Bravo! You've exposed and eviscerated this publishing company thoroughly. All that you've written about Publish America on this page- and on the pages of arbitrarily selected PA books- is true. At the expense, maybe, of a good book or two. Because any half-decent historian can tell you that a good book will emerge sometimes from the most obscure, ignoble, or difficult of beginnings. Walden, Leaves of Grass, or Swann's Way, for instance. Or the early works of Anais Nin, William Burroughs, Charles Bukowski. Etc. While your expose is indeed ingenious and scathing in the long literary tradition of political pamphleteering/social satire, it suffers from a terrible fallacy: namely, that you blindly conflate the integrity and quality of Publish America with every book that they publish. You even post vitriol about the books themselves based solely on your critique of the company. What you have committed, gentlemen, is the Unpardonable Sin: you have evaluated a work of art without having first experienced it; you have transgressed the age old adage of never judging a book by its cover. There are many breaches of decency an artist might be permitted, but this is unequivocally not one of them. Yours is a fallacy of perspective, of ignorance and assumption. Let it be known that one among you dissents in anonymous protest!
 

Ed Williams

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I don't think the poor guy who discovered what...

...the book business is all about last weekend at the festival has quite recovered from his experience...

I agree with you to a point. Pretentious language is annoying. However, trying to be "one of the guys" or "regular" guys with writing is not what creates literature. If you want your book to become literature, it has to stand out itself.

My problem on here has been hiding myself so I could fit in as a "regular" guy. But I'm not a "regular" guy. I worked by butt off for years studying this material.

Stand on any street corner with twenty questions about grammar, and you may quickly find that you are not one of the "regular" guys either. It's funny how many of us are not reserved about blasting our book aloud to the world, but we hide the fact that we may have studied longer and know just a little more than those "regular," street corner guys.

The target is, yes, to keep it simple but different enough to rise above the average.

If one always tries to fit in, one will never stand out.
And, in response to a remark from a fellow author:
Joyce Ann,
Scolded? What the...

You asked, and I quote:
Is it correct or not and why?

All I did was answer you.

You give great responses. I would never scold you.

For something with more context, your sentence would work.

Geesh. I can't freaking win on here.
I'm shutting up.
Goodbye.
The thread: http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/general/2111.htm
 
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James D. Macdonald

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Ed Williams said:

Danny asks us to consider
I watched you brushing your hair.
I watched your brushing your hair.
I watched your brushing of your hair.

But he has asked an impossible question. The smallest unit of meaning in English is not the word, not the sentence, but the paragraph. A paragraph has to be considered among the other paragraphs in the scene, and the scenes considered among the other scenes in the chapter. The chapters are considered among all the chapters of the book.

(I speak of novels here, for he speaks of "creative" writing. Nonfiction has a slightly different aesthetic.)

Given the right circumstances any one of those sentences could be the right one. For some value of the word "right."

He, and others, might profit from one of the many discussions of writing that take place on these boards.
 
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