Shady's Edgy YA (or sex, swearing, drinking, drugs, and violence in YA)

Hesperides

Bloody love
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
143
Reaction score
16
Location
A moment in time
K, I'm late coming here - I was linked in another thread.... To me it wasn't, What can they handle? - it was, Can I get published with it? I remember being a teen. I read Ann Rice, Stephen King, and so many others when I was 10. I know what they'll read, I just was unsure of what the "rules" were in writing and getting "through". Thanks :)
 

Shady Lane

my name is hannah
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
44,931
Reaction score
9,546
Location
Heretogether
Of course you can get published with it--that's how these books exist.
 

bethany

:)
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
9,013
Reaction score
3,057
Location
Room two-hundred-something on the first floor
Website
www.bethanygriffin.com
I know that one story doesn't prove anything. But here is my story. For what it's worth. Probably nothing. Why am I still typing on this intro? <stops typing:>

Handcuffs- the tale of an edgy book…

1. Despite the title and the premise, I didn’t write this to be a book about teenage sex. There was just a point where I knew that to be true to the characters, sex would happen. There was no way Parker was going to say no to him.

2. My original query was quite sexed up. This was the hook. Coming down from the most sexually charged moment of your life to face humiliation, unfulfilled lust, and the boredom of indefinite grounding is tough. Sixteen year old Parker Prescott alternates her punishment time between sneaking out to see her would-be lover and playing internet pranks. One of these activities will lead to an unflattering mug shot, but both will land her in handcuffs.

That got a lot of attention. Some agents knew right away that it “wasn’t for them” but about half the agents I queried asked for material.

Changes Re: edgy material.

In the original hot tub scene, they are actually skinny-dipping. This was really stupid of me because it violated Parker’s reserved personality. It was difficult enough for her to take off the top layer of clothing. So that was changed for character issues rather than edginess. No-one ever said anything about the scene where he offers to show her what he does when he thinks about her. Or when she asks about what he did or might have done or was offered by Kandace.

The bullying scene- this extremely non-sexual scene has garnered the most comments. I needed Parker to be completely mortified by what the guys in her class were saying to her. Personally, I think I nailed it. Some people have been offended. Some people have said they learned a new word. Some people know, like I do, that this was pretty tame in the world of guys showing off in front of other guys.

There were some other aspects that were shot down- too romancy too whatever, but the basics of the edgy stuff stayed.

I’m more about the sexual tension and dynamics than a play by play of body parts. If you want that, read something else. I’m afraid I can’t think of any YA that are that graphic, but if I come across one I’ll let you know.


I do have at least one editor rejection that refers to the sexual chemistry between the characters as a good thing.

Once it was edited, I know that there was some effort not to make it look like a sex book. The book blurb is not very sexual.

Anyway, in my experience the sexual content did not keep me from getting an agent or selling the book. How did it affect the sales? I find that impossible to know. I know that Borders made a very modest purchase for their stores, but I know lots of other books that came out at the same time with equally modest purchases, so the economy? I don’t know.

I’ve got reviews that loved the sexuality in the book and that even said it provided good lessons for teens. Don’t know about that one. I’ve had some that said Parker was a total whore. Don’t know about that one either.

When I get home today I’ll dig up a few more details from reviews and rejections and add those in.

Also, I apologize for posting in every sex in YA thread with a commercial for my book.  It’s kind of a joke with myself, we’ve answered the question so many times, so I said, from now on I was advertising in every sex in YA thread. My sense of humor might make me sort of a lamentable loser.
 

Shady Lane

my name is hannah
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
44,931
Reaction score
9,546
Location
Heretogether
And I advertise my book whenever people ask if you can curse in YA. It's all good.
 

everythinginblak

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
309
Reaction score
16
Location
Daytona Beach, Fl
Well, that sure did explain alot! I went to your website and was like, 'Okay, what is this book about again?' . You posting here has cleared up most of my confusions. I find it funny how osme people called your character a whore...when nine times out of ten they're either doing what she did or have already done it. I don't think we should judge characters *coughsbuticanthelpbutpickatbellacoughcough*, but more so try to learn from their flaws. Even though they are 'fictional' they could be your best friend, your sister, your mom, a brother, or even a co-worker. Books shouldn't be just a fun pass time, but a place of solitude where we can fiind life lessons and healing. I wish we had more people in the world that would understand this instead of trying to ban us from talking about it.

Speaking of borders, they happen to be my favorite booksellar. they sell books really cheap. how much is yours?
 

bethany

:)
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
9,013
Reaction score
3,057
Location
Room two-hundred-something on the first floor
Website
www.bethanygriffin.com
When I get home, I can pull out the original cover blurb written by my editor and show you the difference between the sexy query blurb, the plain original blurb, and what we finally compromised on.

The cover price is $16.99 Amazon sells it for $11.55 and B&N online for 12 something. Not sure about Borders. It isn't in too many of their stores, and I know someone who picked up a library version at a store those are glossy and gorgeous but are like $19.99, and I'm not sure why Borders had them.
 

Niki_G

Here I Am!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
141
Reaction score
24
Location
DC Metro
Website
www.nicolegreenauthor.com
I’ve got reviews that loved the sexuality in the book and that even said it provided good lessons for teens. Don’t know about that one. I’ve had some that said Parker was a total whore. Don’t know about that one either.

I've read the book, loved it and can't believe some people said Parker was a whore...wow...really? Nothing even close to that ever crossed my mind. I guess it's funny, how differently people can react to things. It's interesting, having read the book and then reading about the changes that happened.

As for me, I'm keeping things as racy as I'm comfortable with leaving them. We'll see how things go when I get to the query stage...
 

KSM

Registered
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Location
Pennsylvania
I, like several other people, have not read ALL the threads, but I've scanned a great deal of them and found the reoccurring theme that "edgy YA" is a term that encompasses sex, drugs, drinking, and violence. But what about religion? Does an anti-Christian message make a book "edgy", in addition to being hard to sell? My book wouldn't technically be classified as YA because my protagonist is 18/19. She's a good kid, doesn't drink or do drugs, so the book isn't "edgy" either. But she IS opinionated and jaded and decidedly against organized religion, a far cry from the "popular girl who goes to the mall" type.

I guess what I'm asking is: should anti-religious themes be lumped into the "edgy" category or "controversial" category? Or both? Or neither? Any thoughts on this?
 

Shady Lane

my name is hannah
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
44,931
Reaction score
9,546
Location
Heretogether
There's a big difference between an anti-religious character and an anti-religious theme. tons of books feature characters against organized religion--Pete Hautman's fantastic Godless comes to mind, about a kid who decides to worship a water tower to prove the stupidity of Christianity--but the book itself isn't anti-religious. I think a book that is truly anti-Christian will be a very hard sell, but I think it's harder to be anti-Christian than you might be thinking right now.
 

Red.Ink.Rain

Not your kid brother's YA
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
8,965
Reaction score
1,219
Location
Your face
Website
kristin-briana.livejournal.com
I've read "edgy" Christian books, so I don't think making a book anti-religious makes it automatically edgy. The edginess comes from the subject matter, the way the characters behave, the way you deal with sensitive subjects. It's a MOOD rather than a genre, IMO.
 

KSM

Registered
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Location
Pennsylvania
<Googling Pete Hautman>

Thanks, Shady Lane, for your thoughts. You're right, there is a big difference between anti-religious characters and anti-religious themes. Anti-religious themes ARE a tough sell. I guess I should've clarified that my book is NOT anti-Christian, just the main character is. As suspected, I'm having a hard time finding agents willing to take it on. Oh well. The fight continues...
 

Red.Ink.Rain

Not your kid brother's YA
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
8,965
Reaction score
1,219
Location
Your face
Website
kristin-briana.livejournal.com
KSM - is their religious belief an integral part of the plot? If it's not, I can see how the agents might not like it, because it sounds like you're spouting your own personal beliefs through your character.
 

KSM

Registered
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Location
Pennsylvania
Red.Ink.Rain -- Thanks for your thoughts as well. This newbie to the boards appreciates it :) I agree that "edgy" may be more mood than subject matter. I'd say my main character's (anti)religious beliefs are integral to the plot. And there are other characters who are religious and they move the plot along too. But in the end I think if you've got this type of book to sell, you gotta be more neutral. Less heavy handed and preachy. (So yes, perhaps I was spouting my beliefs thru my character. I know, shame on me.) After lots of time querying and a stack of rejections, I think I've finally figured that out. I knew it in the back of my mind, but never admitted it to myself, and kept querying anyway. I've only just shelved that project and moved on to the next.
 

Red.Ink.Rain

Not your kid brother's YA
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
8,965
Reaction score
1,219
Location
Your face
Website
kristin-briana.livejournal.com
Lol, it's okay, I understand - if religion is integral to the plot, by all means keep it. But like you said, make sure the book is about THE STORY, not religion. Even if you have spiritual or anti-spiritual themes in your book, plot and characters are still most important. (My $.02)
 

KSM

Registered
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Location
Pennsylvania
Thanks for your input, Red.Ink.Rain. Yup, you're right. Put the STORY before all else.

This is a great thread. I enjoy reading everyone's opinions on "edgy" stuff and hearing about authors I'd never heard of. Great stuff!
 

Tiz_Mee

iz bossy . . .
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
5,796
Reaction score
1,433
Location
Wrong Turn
I have two teenage girls, I know what they like, and that's why I choose to write what I do. My 1st book has lots of humor, romance (explicit "almost sex"), plus graffic blood flying fighting (vampires). My characters are at the age of eighteeen. Since their older, they expect them to be acting in a certain way - not just holding hands, and talking in a way in which they are used to hearing.

I know I haven't even gotten my foot in the door yet, but my girls screamed everyday for another chapter while I typed at lightning speed so it couldn't have been that bad (probably was though, LOL!)
 

pixydust

Mother Flippin' Rhymnosorous
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
1,562
Reaction score
280
Location
Winchestertonfieldville
Website
www.shadowofthewood.com
I think the doors are more open for edge now than they've been in the past. Might just be me thinking hopefully, though. :D

My recent wip, GOLDEN, is pretty much no-holds-bared. I may be shooting myself in the foot, but how can it not be violent--it's about an assassin? And how can she not have sex with the guy? He's freakin' hot (just kiddin'). She has sex because she think's it'll make her feel human--make her feel loved and accepted. It's important that she sacrifices that part of herself at that time.

So there.

I hate the idea that I can't just write the story the way it should go. The characters dictate to me how it all rolls out. If I'm being true to the story then that's the way it goes. I worked for two years trying to get published in the Christian market and have had enough of the "not proper" speach. It's all hangin' out there now, bay-bay.
 

eyeblink

Barbara says hi
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
6,358
Reaction score
892
Location
Aldershot, UK
Melvin Burgess on BBC Radio last week, talking about his new novel Nicholas Dane:

here

It's a 30-minute programme - Burgess appears 22 minutes in.

(This should be accessible outside the UK, but it's possible it might not be.)
 

miss marisa

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
229
Reaction score
31
I love Push. And thank you so much for this post. Luckily, my mother understands that the world for teenagers isn't a sparkling rainbow with a pot of gold at the end. So, she's more than willing to buy me "edgy" books because they're about as true as you're going to get. Now, not saying they're all great, but look at the YA section as a whole. The Outsiders was one of my favorite books, just because the author didn't hold back.

I hate it when I read YA and I'm treated like I'm mentally incapacitated. Just because I'm a teenager, doesn't mean I can't grasp subjects like sex and drugs. Actually, teenagers are the people who are most likely going to encounter these things and struggle with them. So I hate it when authors hold back and treat me like a doorknob with no IQ.
 

SarahMacManus

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
409
Reaction score
25
I've been reading Smack, per your recommendation. I don't find it very edgy so far. It's interesting, though!

I loved Smack, but I wouldn't have wanted my kids reading it when they were the same age as the protagonists. I found it kind of disturbing, even though I understand that kids that age, in those circumstances, do shoot heroin. I guess it just depresses me. :/
 

ideagirl

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
1,039
Reaction score
143
Here's another from my file....
Jodi Reamer, Esq. (that esquire means he's male, so do not confuse that!!)
Client is Stephenie Meyer
http://www.publishersmarketplace.com/members/JReamer/
http://www.writershouse.com/content/about.asp

"Esq." doesn't mean male. I get an Esq. after my name (if I want to put it there, which I don't) because I'm a lawyer. It used to just mean "gentleman" (as opposed to peon or member of the nobility), but in modern America it just means "lawyer."