Is it better to self-publish your first novel or choose a publisher?

AggieGirl2013

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Im trying to decide before I submit my first novel somewhere, most likely entangled publishing, if it is better to just do it myself or to go through a big publishing house? My reasoning behind going the publisher root is to gain an audience, that they are better at marketing and getting the word out. Looking at different authors social media it seems that publisher authors always have more followers than self-publishing authors.
 

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There is no blanket right answer.

Each author has to know what she wants, and then decide what she's willing to do to get it and who can best deliver it. Some authors want to make their own cover art. Some authors want more sales. Some authors want to control who can buy their books. Some authors want substantive and copy editing, while others do not want to have to change a word of their prose. No two authors have the same lines in the sand, the same priorities, the exact same goals.

Invariably (with the rare exception like 50 Shades) an established trade press will sell more copies per title than a self-published author. Trade presses invest $ in the books they acquire and pay for editing, cover art, marketing, distribution, etc, while self published authors have to pay for (or do for themselves) all that stuff. On the other hand, trade presses will require you to work with an editor, will decide on cover art and sales price, and will pay you less of a percentage of the sales than you would get with self publishing.

And, of course, good publishers get a thousand times more submissions than they can accept, so authors generally have to go through a lengthy process of submitting, getting rejected, submitting to another publisher, getting rejected, revising the manuscript, submitting, getting rejected, writing a second book, submitting that one, getting rejected..... before they've written something that is of publishable quality and get offered a publishing contract. Self publishers don't have to get anyone's permission. But, if a self publisher isn't able to judge their own book realistically in the context of the marketplace, they're likely to be quite disappointed when they only sell a handful of copies instead of thousands.
 
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Osulagh

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Self-publishers are entirely reliant on themselves, so their exposure is limited to themselves and the success of their books (word of mouth). Trade published authors have the advantage of a publisher's power behind them--how powerful or limited that may be--but they can be limited, and a publisher won't promote your book to the end of the earth either.

How you gain an audience is to put out a good book that connects to the right readers who'll spread the word. You can do this with either platform. Book promotion can only go so far.

It's your choice with what to go for. You can certainty do both at the same time, but it does depend on the type of person you are. I'm not one for large self-promotion and I don't like the idea of controlling every single aspect of publishing (from editing, cover, promoting and more), so I'm aiming for trade publishing.

But then, you don't simply choose a publisher. Most likely you'll have to shop the book around for the publisher willing to take it on. Also, if you didn't know, IMO look into agents first as they can reach publishers you can't and keep you from getting screwed in deals.
 
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cornflake

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Fifty Shades was not self-pubbed.

Aside from that, what they said.
 

shadowwalker

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I would say the first question to ask yourself is if you really want to be a publisher. Do you want to spend the time, money and effort to learn how to be an effective self-publisher? Because if you screw up the publishing side, it won't matter how good your book is.
 

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Fifty Shades was not self-pubbed.

Aside from that, what they said.

According to Wikipedia:

"Originally self-published as an ebook and a print-on-demand, publishing rights were acquired by Vintage Books in March 2012."

Is that wrong? I was recently told it's self published and didn't believe that and so looked it up...

-

Now for the discussion about self-puslishing. I think important is that you have a polished product. Don't end up making the mistake of thinking your work is good and then it gets rejected and so instead you self-publish. To self-publish it must be excellent or it will go nowhere. (Obviously it will go nowhere either if you try and submit it to publishers and it's bad.)
 

cornflake

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According to Wikipedia:

"Originally self-published as an ebook and a print-on-demand, publishing rights were acquired by Vintage Books in March 2012."

Is that wrong? I was recently told it's self published and didn't believe that and so looked it up...

-

Now for the discussion about self-puslishing. I think important is that you have a polished product. Don't end up making the mistake of thinking your work is good and then it gets rejected and so instead you self-publish. To self-publish it must be excellent or it will go nowhere. (Obviously it will go nowhere either if you try and submit it to publishers and it's bad.)

Shocking as it may be ;) Wiki is indeed wrong. I recently saw a study showing Wiki was wrong in a monumental percent of medical articles, just btw, so don't look that up there either.

Fifty Shades was first published by a small, Australian start-up publisher after it got attention as, yes, Twilight fanfic (also the origin of Macbeth, as I understand it - those 'spots' Lady Macbeth referred to were the sparkly vampire kind.), and that publisher dealt the rights to Random House.

The whole 'self-published' thing is some sort of weird lore; I dunno why it persists so strongly.

Things that are not Wiki - ;)

ABC Australia -

With news this morning that her little-known Hornsby publishing house 'The Writer's Coffee Shop' has scored a million dollar deal with Random House for its 'Fifty Shades of Grey' series by E.L. James, everyone is a flutter this morning with the 'overnight success story' of how a NSW woman turned an on-line erotic novel into a global success.

It all started "about a year ago", when Amanda and her US partner started the publishing house, and found the Fifty Shades of Grey story, posted chapter by chapter, on-line.

"It was a free story on-line, and we basically brought it to market and published it so it was an e-book," Amanda said.
Since then, it's sold 250,000 copies in the last few months alone, and has made this Hornsby woman the new pin-up for e-book success.

The Sydney Morning Herald

Publisher's Weekly
 
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Shocking as it may be ;) Wiki is indeed wrong. I recently saw a study showing Wiki was wrong in a monumental percent of medical articles, just btw, so don't look that up there either.

Fifty Shades was first published by a small, Australian start-up publisher after it got attention as, yes, Twilight fanfic (also the origin of Macbeth, as I understand it - those 'spots' Lady Macbeth referred to were the sparkly vampire kind.), and that publisher dealt the rights to Random House.

The whole 'self-published' thing is some sort of weird lore; I dunno why it persists so strongly.

Things that are not Wiki - ;)

The Sydney Morning Herald

Publisher's Weekly

Ah cool thank you, will have to re-visit that conversation with my friend then... I found that with Wikipedia if you're willing to check the sources etc. it can be very helpful. But, ha... I guess you're more likely to walk away with wrong material.
 

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How valuable is respect to you?

These days, anybody can self-publish anything. You want to swim in those waters?

caw

I find it ironic that you bring up the issue of respect while being so dismissive and rude towards self publishers.

blac, you've been here a long time. You should know better.
 

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I like the reasoning for Michael J. Sullivan's choice to self-publish a book:

...Hollow World poured out of me with effortless abandon. Concepts and themes that had been forming over decades fit like perfect puzzle pieces. When it was done, I considered it one of the best things I ever wrote...but also recognized that it was (a) controversial (b) hard to confine in most genre definitions (c) would probably be a "hard sell." to mainstream publishing.

As expected, Orbit turned down Hollow World, like Riyria, Robin was convinced his book had to "get out there" so we decided once more to self-publish.

Basically, some books are hard to sell to publishers. That doesn't mean they're hard to sell to readers. If your book doesn't appeal to mainstream publications, then perhaps you should self-publish. But don't self-published just because you're afraid of rejections or have been rejected for reasons other than it being a hard book for publishers to market.
 

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I find it ironic that you bring up the issue of respect while being so dismissive and rude towards self publishers.

blac, you've been here a long time. You should know better.

Allow me to clarify (which I probably should have done in the preceding post): There are good reasons to self-publish things, including stuff aimed at niche markets, as just one example. But I don't think self-pubbing a first novel without giving it a go at trying to get it accepted by a standard publisher is a very good reason. Hardly better is self-pubbing after having received a lot of form-rejections. In either case, a person stands a good chance of publishing substandard material that may turn out to be an embarrassment.

Those are the reasons I won't self-publish.

caw
 

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Oops, my bad about the 50 Shades. Though, it's an illustrative story -- she posted the original version for free on a fanfic site, since it started out as Twilight fanfic, and had tens of thousands of happy readers. So when she published it via a small e/POD press she already had heaps of name recognition.

Readers buy books because
a) they read a previous book by the author and loved it, or
b) someone they trust (friend, family member, trusted reviewer) recommends it, or
c) um, that's pretty much it. Running across it at random at Barnes and Noble, or being intrigued by a pretty cover while scrolling through Amazon, can net a few sales, but something's really got to stand out and grab the reader.

So first time authors need to find a way to get their books into the hands of reviewers (trade presses, especially those who put out ARCs, can do this; self publishers generally can't), and they need to find a way to get their books into the hands of the reading public so that those who love it will recommend it to their friends (trade presses with good distribution can do this; self publishers generally can't), and they need to ensure that their book is top notch in every aspect -- cover art, editing, layout, the whole shebang -- so that readers will love it (trade presses have professional editors and artists on staff; self publishers usually have to hire professionals to do all this for them).

Myself, I've read several truly excellent self published books -- good enough that I ran out and bought several more by the same author. One was by an AW author whose posts I'd admired and whose 'look inside' pages convinced me I'd like the book. A few others were by authors who put their first book up for free on Kobo, with the subsequent novels sold for a few dollars. But I've also downloaded fifty or more free novels that I couldn't get past the first few paragraphs, because they were boring/badly written/whatever. In contrast, I'll happily buy Orbit fantasy novels based on the publisher name alone, as I invariably love them. Ditto Tor. Dunno how typical of a book buyer/reader I am, but there's one datum point, FWIW.
 
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gothicangel

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I like the reasoning for Michael J. Sullivan's choice to self-publish a book:



Basically, some books are hard to sell to publishers. That doesn't mean they're hard to sell to readers. If your book doesn't appeal to mainstream publications, then perhaps you should self-publish. But don't self-published just because you're afraid of rejections or have been rejected for reasons other than it being a hard book for publishers to market.

I suggest you search AW for Ridian, Michael Sullivan or Robin Sullivan. They have quite the reputation around here. :rolleyes:
 

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No method is "better", it's merely "what's best for you".

IMO it comes down to the degree of work you want to do. As a self-publisher, all the responsibility is on you. You are responsible for all the edits, all the formatting of the ebook, the cover art, all the promotion. You can Pay someone to do that, but that's money you're sinking in. If you want printed copies, then either you go to a POD that ships, or you also handle all the shipping yourself. And then conventions... A publisher will do that for you, but to what degree is up to them. Some people LIKE having all the control, some like letting others do it.

Also it depends on your patience. It can take up to 2 years between a publisher accepts your submission and the book hits the stores. It might also not hit stores because of various other reasons.

Also, if you're going after the Big 5 publishers, you'll need an Agent to even get them to look at it.

You can build a readership as a self-publisher. It takes some time as well as putting out quality products. Writing a few short stories and posting them free is one way to do that. There are a number of books on promotion and such that you could find.
 

Laer Carroll

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I've self-published six books & the experience was good for me in several ways. I'm happy to have done so.

However for my latest I'm going the usual route to trade publishing, starting with looking for an agent. I've a list of several dozen agents culled from several hundred who handle the kind of book I've written. Only if none of them bite will I self publish.
 

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I suggest you search AW for Ridian, Michael Sullivan or Robin Sullivan. They have quite the reputation around here. :rolleyes:

What others (on this board and elsewhere) may think about the author doesn't make my point any less valid, which is some books are too hard to market to be traditionally published.
 

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There's no right or wrong answer to the OP's question. I've gone the traditional route with publishers (digital--Untreed, Devine Destinies) and paperback (paperback and digital--Regal Crest) and have enjoyed working with them.

For me, the pluses are that I can get a solid cover for my novels, an editor who knows what to look for (YMMV) and some marketing. Granted, these places are not huge and you still have to do a lot of the work on your own, but that seems to be the case these days UNLESS you land a fat contract with Harper Collins or Simon/Schuster or some other large publisher.

With self-pubbing (and trad publishing as well, but even more so if you're going it alone) it's imperative that you have a solid contact base built up and a strong social presence. If you don't, chances are that sales won't be great at first UNLESS you've written and edited and formatted a really good, catchy novel. Many self-pubbed novels I've read were riddled with errors, poorly formatted, and just plain dire. So are a number of published novels, but the % of crap from self-published authors seems to outrank that of the traditionally published.

Now before anyone castigates me, there are and have been exceptions in the self-pubbing market, but the track record isn't that great. I think for a first-time effort, going with an established publisher is the way to go. JMO...
 

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Shocking as it may be ;) Wiki is indeed wrong. I recently saw a study showing Wiki was wrong in a monumental percent of medical articles, just btw, so don't look that up there either.

Fifty Shades was first published by a small, Australian start-up publisher after it got attention as, yes, Twilight fanfic (also the origin of Macbeth, as I understand it - those 'spots' Lady Macbeth referred to were the sparkly vampire kind.), and that publisher dealt the rights to Random House.

The whole 'self-published' thing is some sort of weird lore; I dunno why it persists so strongly.
Possibly because, while I believe it was actually first published as Fifty Shades of Grey by small Australian epublisher The Writers' Coffee Shop, it was available in it's Twilight fan fic form Master of the Universe on a fan fic board, and also on her own website for download, after she was banned from the fan fic board for posting erotic content. (lol) So that version was kind of "self published" by being a download you could get on her website.

I don't personally feel comfortable paying a lot of money upfront for editing at the moment, and quality editing is something you want to think about. I'm lucky that I have an editor I'm really happy with at my publishing house.

If you're self publishing you need to ask other authors to recommend you a genuine quality editor, so you don't get scammed. Asking a lot of other authors before you submit to trade publishers, or before you hire people to help you self publish can help you dodge some bullets.
 
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gingerwoman

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Oops, my bad about the 50 Shades. Though, it's an illustrative story -- she posted the original version for free on a fanfic site, since it started out as Twilight fanfic, and had tens of thousands of happy readers. So when she published it via a small e/POD press she already had heaps of name recognition.

Readers buy books because
a) they read a previous book by the author and loved it, or
b) someone they trust (friend, family member, trusted reviewer) recommends it, or
c) um, that's pretty much it. Running across it at random at Barnes and Noble, or being intrigued by a pretty cover while scrolling through Amazon, can net a few sales, but something's really got to stand out and grab the reader.
Readers also buy books because the book has a certain theme, or much loved trope, or an intriguing premise and first page that appeals to them, so that's where new authors have a chance whether trade or self published. :)

When buying from online sites the onlite site will recommend similar books, you can search with key words etc.... It's not all about already being known or recommended by friends.

Readers even buy books from niche publishers because they love that publisher. I had a woman say to me today that she bought 150 books from my publisher last year because she loves them!

Although I'll grant you, the reasons you mention are no doubt the most common reasons for purchase on a much larger scale.
 

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Readers buy books because
a) they read a previous book by the author and loved it, or
b) someone they trust (friend, family member, trusted reviewer) recommends it, or
c) um, that's pretty much it. Running across it at random at Barnes and Noble, or being intrigued by a pretty cover while scrolling through Amazon, can net a few sales, but something's really got to stand out and grab the reader.

My bold.

You'd be surprised.

A year or two ago, The Bookseller carried out a study which showed that browsing in physical bookshops accounted for about 40% of online sales (just over, I think).

Bookshop placement still results in a huge number of sales, and shouldn't be discounted.
 

IdrisG

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Possibly because, while I believe it was actually first published as Fifty Shades of Grey by small Australian epublisher The Writers' Coffee Shop, it was available in it's Twilight fan fic form Master of the Universe on a fan fic board, and also on her own website for download, after she was banned from the fan fic board for posting erotic content. (lol) So that version was kind of "self published" by being a download you could get on her website.

Not to derail, but the The Writer's Coffeeshop in its initial incarnation was just an operation to print pulled-to-publish fanfiction, most of it from Twilight. If I recall correctly, it was established by a few highly popular fanfiction writers for this very purpose. That was their only mission at the time.

I don't say that to diminish the success that Fifty Shades has ultimately attained, only to clarify that ELJ's path to publishing still wasn't very traditional until RandomHouse picked up on the story's popularity.
 
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