Market for Literary High Fantasy?

yosoya · Oct 26, 2014

Hello! I've been reading this forum or a while, but I decided to make my first post to ask a question.

I had this story idea a few days ago, and the only way I can think to describe it is 'literary high fantasy'. It's set in a high fantasy world, but it's actually a deconstruction of typical high fantasy tropes, and the style will be 'literary' (I understand it's a nebulous term, but ... yeah).

Unfortunately, I'm not sure 'literary high fantasy' is even a thing. The only published novel that I can think of that approximates what I'd be going for is Grendel, by John Gardner -- but Beowulf is considered academic.

I really don't want to plan out a book and then spend months writing it when no one would want to actually read/publish it. So ... I defer to the judgment of the much more experienced individuals on this forum. What do you think? Any thoughts would be much appreciated! Thanks!

ClareGreen · Oct 27, 2014

There are a few literary fantasies out there, and they are very much a thing. Some are more yawn-inducing than others (Gormenghast springs to mind in particular there, but there are more).

A little quick searching and I've found one list at http://bestfantasybooks.com/best-literary-fantasy-books.html and I'm sure there are plenty more lists out there. Glancing down it you've got some very, very tough acts to follow.

Good luck!

John Ayliff · Oct 27, 2014

If you're interested in short stories, the magazine Beneath Ceaseless Skies specializes in "literary adventure fantasy". (I'm sure other magazines publish literary fantasy too, but BCS is the only one I can think of that uses the word "literary".)

jjdebenedictis · Oct 27, 2014

There definitely is a market for literary high fantasy in novels.

Have you read The Magicians by Lev Grossman? (Not high fantasy, but very much fantasy.) It's a deconstruction of the whole "children whisked away to a magical kingdom" trope, and it's both disturbing and freakin' brilliant. Imagine Harry Potter and the Narnia books cross-bred with Less Than Zero.

badducky · Nov 10, 2014

I respectfully disagree with anyone who says there is a market for literary high fantasy.

Firstly, because the word "literary" doesn't mean anything at all. Seriously, it's a completely meaningless term. Secondly, because if the word means something, the great practitioners of the empty shell have either had their careers handed to them, or moved on into mainstream work by either becoming literary fiction mainstream authors or adjusting their work to reflect genre demands.

The short story markets mentioned are small presses with small audiences. Publishers of strictly genre with large distribution want plot-machines/screenplays. Heck, even mainstream literary publishers seem to enjoy Save the Cat! very much.

Fantasy, as a genre, is not open to literary anything.

Go mainstream with your work, if you want to go literary. Go small press if you're really stubborn. Otherwise, step in line: Plotty, zippy, grimdark screenplay riffs now and forever,and comedy.

(It sounds like I'm complaining and I'm not. I'm very happy with my career, and I adore working with small presses after a couple years of seeing the major ones work. But, consider yourself warned.)

Filigree · Nov 10, 2014

I could argue either way. To save time, I'll agree that Badducky has a point, but add this caveat: legends, awards, and careers are built from the efforts of those who either didn't know the long odds, or didn't care, and did their thing, anyway.

You won't know until you write it.

Thewitt · Nov 10, 2014

It's always interesting reading replies to questions like this.

It reminds me of other, related quotes.

"Ninety percent of all authors never make any money on their books."

"You must follow the standard cookie cutter approach when writing or publishers will not accept your book."

If both of these are true then perhaps you should just follow your heart.

My advice is simple. If you have a story that you want to tell, tell it! If you can't get a publisher to print it, self-publish.

What do you have to lose?

Follow your heart. Maybe you will start something wonderful.

Lillith1991 · Nov 10, 2014

I don't think there's a market for it on it's own, no. But there's plenty of things out there which could fall under the heading. Not enough for it to be considered entirely its own thing, but enough that it will probably gain traction in the years to come. If I was you I would market it as High Fantasy, and look at agents who represent both Lit and Fantasy. They're going to be the ones best able to sell your work to publishers.

CrastersBabies · Nov 10, 2014

I don't even know what "Literary high fantasy" is supposed to be.

I know there are literary writers who write genre-ish books: e.g. Ishiguro writing "Never Let Me Go," which is under literary fiction, not sci-fi/fantasy. But you won't find GRRM's writing under literary, even though it's more character driven and has moments of "pretty" literary lyricism. Same with Rothfuss. I find his work to be similar to some of my favorite lit-fic writers, but the dude writes fantasy.

I think this is more of a question that will be answered less in terms of what you decide to write and more in terms of your publication record and career path. And where B&N decides you belong.

My pal wrote a "literary horror" novel. Guess where it is on the shelf? Here's a hint: it's not the literary fiction section.

Putting "literary" in the same ballpark as "high fantasy" just seems odd. I have no idea what that looks like. I would think if you made a high fantasy too "literary," you would kind of lose everything that makes it high fantasy? Not sure. Don't want to open up the fantasy sub-genre can of worms....

yosoya · Nov 11, 2014

Interesting perspectives! I guess I worded my OP pretty confusingly.

I definitely know 'literary' is vague, and not necessarily a useful descriptor. After some thought, I've decided that what I really meant was that: 1) I plan to focus more on relationships/overarching themes in the book, rather than world-building, and 2) my tone/writing style is not at all high-fantasy-ish (from what I've read of the genre). It's quite breezy, I guess? Not stately.

... I'm having a poor time describing it. Not sure if it's allowed, but this is a super brief sample of my opening paragraph (literally, this is how I plan the book to start) to show you what I mean about style: http://justpaste.it/hxkm

So. Do you think people would read a high fantasy book written in this style? If not, what exactly should I market this as? It's a high concept fantasy involving a portal to the real world, and it's going to include a lot of black humor. Actually, I'm quite fond of my idea, and I've already written 6000 words of this thing, so I think I'll try to see it through. I'm just curious as to what genre to call it.

I don't really know anything about markets. I'm eighteen and this is the first book I've ever really considered writing, so I'm pretty inexperienced. I've written stories before, and they've all been contemporary fiction and historical fiction.

Thanks so, so much for any advice you can give!

Lillith1991 · Nov 11, 2014

yosoya said:
Interesting perspectives! I guess I worded my OP pretty confusingly.

I definitely know 'literary' is vague, and not necessarily a useful descriptor. After some thought, I've decided that what I really meant was that: 1) I plan to focus more on relationships/overarching themes in the book, rather than world-building, and 2) my tone/writing style is not at all high-fantasy-ish (from what I've read of the genre). It's quite breezy, I guess? Not stately.

... I'm having a poor time describing it. Not sure if it's allowed, but this is a super brief sample of my opening paragraph (literally, this is how I plan the book to start) to show you what I mean about style: http://justpaste.it/hxkm

So. Do you think people would read a high fantasy book written in this style? If not, what exactly should I market this as? It's a high concept fantasy involving a portal to the real world, and it's going to include a lot of black humor. Actually, I'm quite fond of my idea, and I've already written 6000 words of this thing, so I think I'll try to see it through. I'm just curious as to what genre to call it.

I don't really know anything about markets. I'm eighteen and this is the first book I've ever really considered writing, so I'm pretty inexperienced. I've written stories before, and they've all been contemporary fiction and historical fiction.

Thanks so, so much for any advice you can give!

Oh, I like your style! That is an interesting little sample of writing there, makes me wonder about Risen and his world.

Xagarath · Nov 11, 2014

Catherynne Valente writes pretty much the kind of thing the OP's describing, and she's a New York Times best-seller, so I'd say there's probably a market.

CrastersBabies · Nov 11, 2014

Yeah, I don't see that as any more or less literary to be honest. It just reads like a genre story to me.

I wouldn't focus on the literary aspect to be honest. Just write it well and tell your story! I don't see any reason this wouldn't have a market. Good luck!

yosoya · Nov 11, 2014

OK, thanks a lot guys! I guess I've been over-thinking the issue way too much. I was reading other fantasy drafts by people in my creative writing group, and they all seemed to be really different from mine (more in the GRR Martin/epic/world-building style), so I psyched myself out.

I'm just going to focus less on genre and marketing from now on, and more on telling my story!

badducky · Nov 12, 2014

Xagarath said:
Catherynne Valente writes pretty much the kind of thing the OP's describing, and she's a New York Times best-seller, so I'd say there's probably a market.

For her mainstream YA work...

StarWombat · Nov 12, 2014

I'd check out the Fantasy Masterworks series. Esp. The Dragon Griaulle. I mean,I didn't like it, but it is a work of art.

veinglory · Nov 12, 2014

If it is literary you can send it to literary agents and publishers. If it is also fantasy you could also/instead send it to fantasy agents and publishers. So I am not seeing a limitation there.

badducky · Nov 13, 2014

veinglory said:
If it is literary you can send it to literary agents and publishers. If it is also fantasy you could also/instead send it to fantasy agents and publishers. So I am not seeing a limitation there.

My experience has been that you can send it to them, but the fantasy will knock you out of the literary people, and the literary will knock you out of the fantasy people. People basically seek the dead center of their respective genres.

Or, do what I have done, and go small press, where things are generally more interesting, if lower paying and lower in audience size.

veinglory · Nov 13, 2014

My experience is that what people consider literary is a very soft target and often well within the scope of some of the better fantasy presses, large and small, if all the other boxes are ticked (e.g. it fits in with their catalog, is basically commercial, it is a suitable length and well written etc).

Liosse de Velishaf · Nov 13, 2014

I write some literary high fantasy. In one sense, I think you're better off just labeling it as high fantasy unless you're pandering to a specific agent or editor request. You're unlikely to sell it as lit fit to a lit fic publisher. But you can definitely sell it as high fantasy to a fantasy publisher, and even maybe do pretty OK.

There is absolutely literary fantasy. For example, Helene Wecker's The Golem and the Jinni. That's historical fantasy, true, but still literary fantasy.

You're probably not gonna sell a million copies of something marketed as specifically literary high fantasy. But to say there is no market at all seems a bit extreme to me.

Melanii · Nov 13, 2014

ClareGreen said:
There are a few literary fantasies out there, and they are very much a thing. Some are more yawn-inducing than others (Gormenghast springs to mind in particular there, but there are more).

A little quick searching and I've found one list at http://bestfantasybooks.com/best-literary-fantasy-books.html and I'm sure there are plenty more lists out there. Glancing down it you've got some very, very tough acts to follow.

Good luck!

I was going to say... I write fantasy just like this! I'm literary!? XD

Then I realize, I just write fantasy the way I want to.

Liosse de Velishaf · Nov 13, 2014

ClareGreen said:
There are a few literary fantasies out there, and they are very much a thing. Some are more yawn-inducing than others (Gormenghast springs to mind in particular there, but there are more).

A little quick searching and I've found one list at http://bestfantasybooks.com/best-literary-fantasy-books.html and I'm sure there are plenty more lists out there. Glancing down it you've got some very, very tough acts to follow.

Good luck!

I wouldn't categorize all of the books on that list as literary fantasy. But many of them are. Besides just being fucking fantastic stories.

Xagarath · Nov 14, 2014

badducky said:
For her mainstream YA work...

Mainstream in that it sells well, yes. In style? Not so much.

badducky · Nov 15, 2014

YA is not the same genre, at all, as fantasy. Publishers have died misunderstanding that. It is distinct from both literary and fantasy, even as it is a hybrid of many genres. And it is the mainstream that many authors of genres flee towards.

Genres have little to do with books or authors. They are a distribution and marketing chain that operates in communication with readers. Books that fit really well into that chain go far along it. Books that challenge the chain will be lucky to earn out even small advances. Now, there is always the casino, but... Lottery tickets cost a dollar. They dont cost two years. If the market forces drive your art, aim for the center of one, distinct genre I.e. the chain of readers and publishers that have built their community of ideas. On the other hand, if you are like me, write whatever you think is most interesting because even the dead center of a genre pays less than slinging drinks at Starbucks for all but the luckiest strikes.

Roxxsmom · Nov 16, 2014

YA is a marketing demographic, not a genre. You can have YA historical novels, YA fantasy or SF novels, YA paranormal romances, YA romances and so on.

It's my understanding that literary is also more of a style than a genre, though most literary stories are set (arguably) in the real world, there are some literary writers who have stories that embrace the fantastical, or even SF, and some genre fiction writers who have more of a literary style. I've never heard of literary YA fiction. Does it exist?

It's my understanding that modern YA novels aren't just novels with teen protagonists. They're novels centered on things that especially concern teens, narrated in the voice, pov and perspective of a teen (not an adult looking back on their life as a teen, nor that of an omni narrator telling us a story about a teen).

Out of curiosity, which publishers have died from thinking that YA is the same as literary and fantasy? Not doubting it would be fatal, since it seems a chowderheaded mistake to make, but I hadn't heard of this.

Market for Literary High Fantasy?

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