Arrow

Stacia Kane said:

Okay, I seriously, honestly, completely mean this hypothetically, and please don't take it as a comment on you, but... If you accept a couture dress from a man in exchange for going out to dinner with him, and the dress is the reason you agree to go... doesn't that kind of make you a paid escort, at least?

Like I said, it was just the flat-out, "I want you to go out to dinner with me and I'll give you this dress if you say yes," that bothered me, when there were so many ways to handle it that would have made it so much less prostitutey. (Including Felicity--Felicity!--not acting like she just won the lottery, instead of confirming that the price of an evening with her is a pretty dress.) I have zero problem with gifts, even expensive ones, really, especially from a guy like Ray for whom the 15k or whatever the dress cost would be like the price of a paperback for anybody else. I like gifts. I like being given gifts. Just, it wasn't presented as a gift, it was presented as payment.


Also, I hated her shoes.

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I would see it as persuasion. I see it like this. If someone asks me to do something I don't want to do I'm not going to do it. In this case Felicity would not want to go to this dinner, so she would say no. However, if someone offers me something that I want in exchange for doing something I ordinarily would want to do, unless it is something my morality is against, there is a fairly strong chance I can be swayed. The more I want what is being offered the better the chance.

I went back and rewatched the scene and it seemed more bribe-y than escort-y.

The no killing kind of puts me off at times. Not because I want violence, but because I feel like I'm being babied. That because this is a CW show, they need to toss in a few moments of pseudo morality to make what the Arrow does "okay."

They did this in the beginning with Supernatural. The Winchester brothers have to save every possessed human and have to be gentle in their dealings. When the world becomes not so gentle, they fail. And audiences get tired of having that same sit-down with a character that includes a "we don't have to kill" conversation.

There is a time to deliver a more final blow and a time to pull back. Felicity telling Ollie to kill this guy was a big moment for me. I don't believe it's against her character, no. Felicity needs to grow and evolve as a character as well and part of that is her realizing that yes.... There are some men who will never fit nicely within the parameters of legal justice.

I think Felicity asking Ollie to kill Ra's gets a pass because that guy has an army of assassins at his beck and call, and they've already seen what he's capable of ordering when he's annoyed.

I saw it as her understanding this was a fight to the death and being afraid that Ollie would pull back and give Ra's an opening to kill him. Didn't she even say that? If he wasn't decisive, if he hadn't made the decision to kill before he'd even gotten into the ring, then he'd most likely die for any hesitation. I think she was just saying, don't fool around, get out of there alive, no matter what.

She understood what Oliver may not have - or at least what she was afraid that he wouldn't accept. Ra's fights to the death. Period. All stop. Do not pass Go; do not collect $200.

So long as they were both alive, the fight wouldn't be over. Even if Oliver had beat the man into submission and left his bloody, broken but still breathing carcass on the mountain - it wouldn't have been over. That's what the two witnesses were for. They were to make sure the fight was finished.

Felicity knew someone had to die, and that if Ollie wasn't willing to kill, then he'd already lost before he started the climb.

AshleyEpidemic said:

I would see it as persuasion. I see it like this. If someone asks me to do something I don't want to do I'm not going to do it. In this case Felicity would not want to go to this dinner, so she would say no. However, if someone offers me something that I want in exchange for doing something I ordinarily would want to do, unless it is something my morality is against, there is a fairly strong chance I can be swayed. The more I want what is being offered the better the chance.

I went back and rewatched the scene and it seemed more bribe-y than escort-y.

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Hmm. Maybe if I re-watch it I'll feel differently; it is possible that I was just seeing it oddly--it really surprised me that she didn't say anything at all about it, even in a joking way, so I guess it could be that I was anticipating a comment from her so much that the lack of one gave it a different tone.

"Bribe" is a good point. Like I said, it wasn't the transaction itself, because there were plenty of ways it could have been worded or shown where it wouldn't have bothered me in the slightest. It was just presented so baldly. (And then, too, I do have two daughters who think Felicity is awesome [I agree!] so I may be more sensitive for that reason, you know?)

Anyway, thanks for the discussion.

How nerdtastically cute is Felicity?

"I need the keys to your helicopter, boss. I promise not to crash it."

(Brandon Routh, the guy playing Palmer, was in one of those cheesy Hallmark or Lifetime movies that played on an endless loop around Christmas time. Every time I see him and Felicity in a scene like that, I think they need their own cheesy holiday movie.)

Cyia said:

How nerdtastically cute is Felicity?

"I need the keys to your helicopter, boss. I promise not to crash it."

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Felicity needs her own show.

"Everyone loves Felicity".

The Flash, Arrow and Atom visit on a daily basis.

Sheryl Nantus said:

Felicity needs her own show.

"Everyone loves Felicity".

The Flash, Arrow and Atom visit on a daily basis.

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She's secretly a metahuman possessed of a pheromone only superheroes can detect.

I know I'm in the minority, but I love that Laurel is coming into her own.

I wasn't too pleased with the ending. DJ douche.... Ugh.

Papa Merlyn needs to ice this turkey.

I still liked Sara much more than Laurel. Ugh.

I love the way Laurel develops. Not my favorite character to begin with, but her arc is full of great potential. I also like that she's only about half-way done with her superhero education - still getting her butt kicked regularly, but not because she's a girl (as lesser shows would still play it) but because she's unexperienced.

Meanwhile, Felicity is the true heart of the team, the one who keeps the show rolling. If there's a Felicity spinoff in the planning, I suspect it'll be called "Birds of Prey".

Oh! Felicity as The Oracle, interesting, but Birds Of Prey was already done

You gotta admit, though, it'd give that one scene with Felicity and Laurel some extra appeal!

I'm excited for Laurel. I've wanted her to get all up in the super hero biz since day 1. She's stumbled along (mainly writers not knowing how to ease her into her heroic arc, imho), but now she's on her way.

In truth, I started out very lukewarm about Sarah. I grew to like her more over time, though. Same with Thea. It just took time to warm to her.

I, too, like seeing Laurel's training in action. She won't have Sarah's background, but why should she? She's had enough trauma and devastation to fuel her Canary evolution. She wasn't on an island and physically tortured then trained as an assassin. No, she was the one left behind to endure the loss of her sister and Ollie. Ready to put her life back together when it all comes crashing in again. Only to lose Sarah a second time. I think people forget that while this show may give Ollie and fans the "feels," Laurel's left holding the emotional bag. Over and over again.

Her relationship with her father really holds a lot of weight--at least for me. My heart breaks for Detective Lance (and for Laurel) each time she has to lie to him about Sarah.

I'm okay giving this character a chance to grow and become better.

I must have blinked. How did Ollie get resurrected? Because he was stick-a-sword-in-me-and-throw-me-off-a-mountain dead. Did he get dunked in a Lazarus Pit during a commercial break?

It had something to do with Tatsu. Maseo took Oliver to her after the fall and she did a lot of off-camera hand-waving, which was basically explained as him being "mostly dead," ala Wesley and Miracle Max. The cold slowed him down enough that he was in shock, but not dead. She filled him full of tea and brought him back from the brink.

Cyia said:

The cold slowed him down enough that he was in shock, but not dead.

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And thankfully, there was a lot of snow, so he didn't fall off the mountain. He bounced.

Cool -- okay, thanks. It's basically superhero rules of death, sort-of death and kissing-close death.

CrastersBabies said:

I, too, like seeing Laurel's training in action. She won't have Sarah's background, but why should she? She's had enough trauma and devastation to fuel her Canary evolution. She wasn't on an island and physically tortured then trained as an assassin. No, she was the one left behind to endure the loss of her sister and Ollie. Ready to put her life back together when it all comes crashing in again. Only to lose Sarah a second time. I think people forget that while this show may give Ollie and fans the "feels," Laurel's left holding the emotional bag. Over and over again.

Her relationship with her father really holds a lot of weight--at least for me. My heart breaks for Detective Lance (and for Laurel) each time she has to lie to him about Sarah.

I'm okay giving this character a chance to grow and become better.

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I was happy to see her training and the results, too. I was really worried for a while we were going to get a 3 minute training montage, and then Laurel as the Canary would appear with skills to rival Sarah and Oliver. I like that she's still bumbling around a little bit, and I like that she recognizes it and lets the consequences of that bother her.

Sneak peak at Brandon Routh as Ray Palmer in his ATOM suit, woot! The Silver Age DC on the small screen, who would have believed it.

http://www.superherohype.com/news/328835-check-out-brandon-routh-in-his-atom-exosuit

Aghhhh my feels! They are.... Feeling!

Diggle as the Green Lantern? Let's hope they do a better job than the film.

http://screenrant.com/arrow-diggle-green-lantern-john-stewart/

I'd love that! Not the least because it'd fix that problem I keep having every time he joins a fight and everybody's wearing masks except him, but somehow that's not a problem for anybody.

Cyia said:

Diggle as the Green Lantern? Let's hope they do a better job than the film.

http://screenrant.com/arrow-diggle-green-lantern-john-stewart/

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I love this. But, yeah to Cyia's concerns...

Ugh...I hate all of this talk of the John Stewart version of the GL being in the films. He's the worst one with the least personality and the personality and backstory they have him were boring. Why not Hal Jordan? Why not Kyle Raynor who was almost as popular as Jordan?