Tell me about your first time

Hahaha! Oh my god, you got me too.

My first "submission experience" was a short story to Dreamspinner press. I didn't fully understand what a query letter was, and the submission guidelines didn't say "query letter," so when they put in the submission guidelines what they wanted, I just sort of... listed those things. You know, instead of making it a proper letter.

Needless to say, I was rejected. I'm going to choose to believe it was because of my obvious inexperience instead of my mediocre story.

Well, this is the Erotica forum, so my mind went to the same place Maryn's did. Of course, mine stays there most of the time, so...

Anyway, the first thing I submitted was a novella and I was a wreck. I had poured over the AW forums for all the advice I could soak up. I studied my chosen publisher's submission guidelines until my eyes practically bled. I wrote my synopsis, threw it away and then wrote it again. Rinse and repeat... several times.

Finally, I was ready to email my manuscript. My finger must have hovered over the "send" button for ten minutes, before I built up the courage to hit it. And then I went for the vodka bottle and curled up into a fetal position, expecting to spend the next 12 weeks second-guessing myself and biting my fingernails into stubs, with a rejection letter the likely outcome.

One week later I was contacted by the publisher with a contract offer. I was stunned. I jumped up and down, screamed, cried and laughed. I'm pretty sure I couldn't even think about it for the next month without a huge grin on my face.

That was 2.5 years and eight published books ago. Every submission and resulting editing process has taught me to be a better writer. I've learned how to apply the suggestions and constructive criticism I get from editors. I've learned how to expand my characters and plots to create a more rich experience for my readers. After years and years of thinking I would never be able to write - and finish - a story, I have learned I'm capable of more than I thought I was. I've learned to never give up on a dream. And I'm still learning, every day.

Heh heh, in this forum, you have to consider all applicable meanings.

Mms on sub? That would probably have been a fantasy short story to either Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction or another mag (Realms of Wonder?), circa 1988. I didn't keep my submissions records for that time. There might have been a sub to Omni Magazine before that. Rejection letters followed, dozens of 'em.

My first 'sale' was to a fantasy magazine called Atopos, for the story that eventually became 'The Blood Orange Tree' on my blog. I think I was paid $20 for it, but the magazine died before my story went to print. I think that was 1990?

I was still awful. First official short story sale was to a Meisha-Merlin antho in 1999: for the rewritten version of 'Blood Orange', believe it or not. Then came my original fic writing hiatus until 2009, when I started writing with an idea toward publication.

My first was 4 years ago. I had sent my first vampire novella to Dreamspinner. And was rejected. I'm sure I was nervous as hell and I do remember obsessing over my query letter.

But I was so pissed off from the rejection, I went on to self-publish the novel and its sequels. LOL

Maryn said:

Uh, no. This board is viewable by all, including the 13-year-old members we welcome. Posts like this are the reason we have a password-protected section.

Locking.

Maryn, forever a mom

EDIT: Talk about a one-track mind! Mine, I mean. I have received a small handful of messages telling me you appear to mean submission of a manuscript, not submission to a person. My apologies. Thread re-opened for business.

Maryn, laughing at herself

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I heart you. That was hilarious.

c.m.n. said:

...But I was so pissed off from the rejection, I went on to self-publish the novel and its sequels. LOL

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I love AW, and especially my peeps on this forum. I get your outrage - I've been there, myself. But I am soooo tempted to use an aggregate of many similar quotes in a blog post about why I am glad easy self-publishing didn't exist when I had my first ten or twenty rejection letters.

Nevermind, I don't need to. Maureen McGowan already said it on the Snarkology blog.

Reformed Gypsy said:

I'd like to hear about your first submission experience. What did you submit and how did it go? What did you learn?

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Pure luck.

I had two novels self-published, when I blundered across a new publisher just starting up and seeking soft femdom material. I sent both novels. They were quickly accepted, and the publisher asked to see anything else I wrote. Two months ago, I send them a third novel, and they had it up on Amazon in a week.

Maryn said:

EDIT: Talk about a one-track mind! Mine, I mean. I have received a small handful of messages telling me you appear to mean submission of a manuscript, not submission to a person. My apologies. Thread re-opened for business.

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I had to read the line twice myself. Funny how my mind switches gears when I come here. On any other writing forum, I'd have read it as Reformed Gypsy intended.

I submitted a short story to an anthology call I found on the Erotica Readers & Writers Association resource page. The call was for a Cleis Press publication. It was the very first erotic story I've ever written and I didn't have any expectations. It ended up being accepted and the book came out two days ago after a few delays. It's really surreal seeing your words in print (at least, it is for me).

I'm not sure how this question relates to self vs. trade publishing. "Submission" implies that you would be going the trade route. I know quite a few writers who've been published in anthologies and then go on to self-pub. As for what I learned, one word: patience. Also, as someone on this forum once said to me, the best policy you can adopt when it comes to shorter works is "Submit it, and forget it." Once it's out of your hands, move on to something else. If it's rejected, find another publisher. Lather, rinse, repeat.

For more self vs. trade pub discussion, yeah, you should probably hop on over to those forums.

Reformed Gypsy said:

I was hoping that asking this question would help me sort out the traditional publishing vs. self-publishing thing. I have read a lot of conflicting information on the subject. I need to go read the threads o those topics, huh?

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Yes, there's plenty out there on self-pub vs traditional publishing. In short, it generally seems to be...

Traditional publishing has a higher barrier to entry (you have to convince them your story is good enough/a right fit/etc; some only accept from writers with agents) and can take longer to reach (virtual) shelves. That's often because the editing is more rigorous. You get less of a royalties split, probably around 40%.

In return you get someone else taking charge on promotion, cover design, editing, layout, etc. All of which take time/money/expertise if you want to do them yourself.

Self-pub leaves you in the driving seat. Want an ace cover? Design it yourself, or pay/coerce someone to do it. Want blanket promotion? Get out there and tell people about what you've written. Want to avoid readers complaining about mistakes? Cough up for, or sweet talk, an editor.

You get more in the way of royalties, but you'll be earning them because it's not just a case of writing any more.

Assuming you had a story that a publisher would accept or you could go the self-pub route with, I guess the question is would a publisher's established expertise earn you more sales than your own abilities. If you can do your own covers, or are a promotions expert, that will factor in too.

But that's only a very, very top-level view of it all. There's a lot more to both sides, and some very knowledgeable/experienced people on AW who know a lot more than I do.

-A.

Reformed Gypsy said:

I was hoping that asking this question would help me sort out the traditional publishing vs. self-publishing thing. I have read a lot of conflicting information on the subject. I need to go read the threads o those topics, huh?

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I've learned over the years that there is no better experience than submitting a story to a publisher, especially your first one.

See Filigree's reply to my post here, self-publishing is wayyyy too easy now-a-days, but there is one MAJOR flaw. The writer almost never receives the experience of publisher rejection or R&R.

Sometimes I do wish I could go back and change my thoughts when my first story was rejected. I'd have rewritten the story, or sent it out to another publisher before throwing in the towel.

Because of this, I go back and forth between the "easy" self-publishing or the "harder" submitting to a publisher. I love the easy route, but the harder one is better promo to introduce my pen name to more readers.

Goodness, my mind went straight to BDSM too!

Okay...back in the summer of 2012, when I was a wide-eyed aspiring writer who didn't know AW existed, I did something weird. I had 3 manuscripts (2 novels, 1 novella), that no one had seen except for my significant other (*ahem* do not follow in my footsteps, whatever you do...) I had no idea if my writing was good or not, and I didn't stumble upon the concept of critique partners and beta readers until much later.

So I randomly (based on, well, Google), decided upon 3 dream publishers--Ellora's Cave, Harlequin, and Entangled. I sent 1 MS to each. Needless to say, I got rejections from all three.

The first was from EC--form rejection, and they even spelled my name wrong.

Harlequin's form reject came in not long after. Again, form...and it included a lengthy "general writing advice" section. At least my name was correct.

Entangled's came last, and it seemed like a personal/form combo to my untrained eyes (though it could have as easily been a very well-written form reject).

There you go--3 first submission experiences for the price of one

[Side Note: Though I trunked the first two novels (yes, after they netted 1 rejection each, bringing their total viewership to 3 people), the novella Entangled rejected was eventually picked up by Liquid Silver--this is after I stumbled upon AW and discovered (a) I could send an MS to more than one publisher, (b) a wide range of small press erotic romance publishers existed, and (c) if there's bondage, I really need to put "BDSM" in the intro email, and perhaps not send it to Harlequin. Lesson? A little research goes a long way, but since you're already on AW, you're waaay ahead of where I was ]

My very first manuscript submission was to Dreamspinner press. I very politely asked if they had any feedback for me, and surprisingly the editor who'd read it did email me a brief note, saying that she'd thought my writing was good, but the story was too dark for their press. It was very encouraging, and if my next story is less dark I would definitely consider submitting there again.

That's something you don't get when you self-publish - the little pat on the back saying you did a good job. You have to be pretty darn self-assured, because you won't get assurance anywhere else.

Reformed Gypsy said:

I was hoping that asking this question would help me sort out the traditional publishing vs. self-publishing thing. I have read a lot of conflicting information on the subject. I need to go read the threads o those topics, huh?

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It's not the simple decision it once was. A few years ago, if you got a traditional publishing contract, there was champagne and congrats all around. If you self-published, it was, "Tried all the real publishers, and now you're embarrassing yourself." It was like being caught with the boss's daughter vs. being caught taking care of yourself. One is triumphant, one is pitiful.

It's no longer like that. For one thing, the stigma has largely gone from self-publishing, but you probably won't make much money or gain a very large readership unless you have a huge amount of energy to devote to promotion.

Having done both, I know a traditional publisher adds a smattering of credibility to your work that translates into sales. Potential readers, buying books from a traditional, know that at least one knowledgeable person has read your work and was willing to add it to their inventory.

But it isn't even as simple as that. The more you acquaint yourself with the mechanics of traditional and self-publication, the more likely you are to make a decision that's right for you.

I not only didn't read that the way you filthy-minded lot did, I didn't understand why Maryn was saying take it to the locked room until I got as far as her edit note. My only excuse is that I'm reading AW as a break from doing my tax return.

My first fiction submission was to a fanfic zine, back in the days when zines were on dead forest. It got edited... Which was painful, but good for me. I learnt a lot of useful things from fanfic, both writing it and publishing it.

According to my spreadsheet, the first profic submission I ever made was the novelette I submitted to a Circlet Press anthology back in 1999. I submitted it there in part because I greatly admired Cecilia Tan as an editor. She sat on the story for a while before saying that much as she regretted it, the story wouldn't really fit the anthology series - and besides, it was clearly the first piece of a novel, and I should go and write the rest of it. She was right, on both counts, but I still haven't written the novel.

Submitting stuff is still angst-ridden all these years later. I hatehatehate writing synopses, even though I know why they're necessary. But I'd rather go through a competent publisher than self-publish, at least for first release. (Putting backlist into print is another matter.) Editors exist for a reason.