Interesting situation

kaitie

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But Mr. XXXXXXX (pronounced zzzzzz) is my agent. He's the best agent out there. He's submitted my book to ten different publishers and even has plans to have lunch with Steven Spielberg this weekend to discuss a movie deal. And it's only costing me three thousand dollars a year!*


*kaitie, who couldn't resist
 

HapiSofi

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What strikes me about those letters Jim Clark-Dawe has been reproducing is how little they resemble normal business communications, and how much they resemble certain subtypes of spam: wordy, disorganized, repetitive, lacking subject headers, and typed full-width on the page. It's a format designed to overwhelm readers who can't automatically keep track of what's being said.
 

CaoPaux

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I'm always confused.

I went to a site owned by one of the members of AW, where he or she has links to agents. I clicked on a link that appeared to be the agent's website. That link took me to a page somewhat similar to my equinelawonline site. There an advertisement that looked like a button said "CONTACT AGENT." I pressed that, leading to the form.

Less confused?

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
Yes, thank you! The starting point makes all the difference.
 

darkprincealain

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I'm always confused.

I went to a site owned by one of the members of AW, where he or she has links to agents. I clicked on a link that appeared to be the agent's website. That link took me to a page somewhat similar to my equinelawonline site. There an advertisement that looked like a button said "CONTACT AGENT." I pressed that, leading to the form.

Less confused?

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

Thank you. I think that clarifies things within this thread considerably.
 

jclarkdawe

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And in response to the email in post 49, I receive:

When you are assigned an agent you need to talk to your agent about when to submit another book


:Jaw:

Huh? What's that? I don't actually have an agent. That caused me to send in the following email:

I thought an agent was assigned when you forwarded my novel VENOM to a possible publisher. Does this mean when I send VENOM to the publisher (tomorrow) that no one from your agency will be checking with the publisher about it? That makes me rather nervous about my work. I'm relying on your agency to protect me from problems, and if you're not keeping track of it, I don't see how you can.
Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

AC Crispin

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LOL.

Sooner or later Bobby will figure out he's being played, but every moment he spends on this is one moment less he can spend defrauding some earnest but naive would be author.

-Ann C. Crispin
 

jclarkdawe

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We could even start a pool on what day and which response...
That could be interesting. Maybe we could do a pool for how long I can make it last?

What strikes me about those letters Jim Clark-Dawe has been reproducing is how little they resemble normal business communications, and how much they resemble certain subtypes of spam: wordy, disorganized, repetitive, lacking subject headers, and typed full-width on the page. It's a format designed to overwhelm readers who can't automatically keep track of what's being said.
The formatting of the emails has to be cleaned up to be posted here, as it includes numerous line breaks. So the full-width aspect isn't in the originals, which are actually rather short per line. But yeah, I think all these people go to the same school to learn to write.

One thing I'm finding interesting is how different the voice is in the canned stuff compared to the individual responses.

LOL.

Sooner or later Bobby will figure out he's being played, but every moment he spends on this is one moment less he can spend defrauding some earnest but naive would be author.

-Ann C. Crispin
That's what I figure. Personally I'm surprised he hasn't found this thread. It's easy enough to set up a web bot to search for new mentions of your name.

Now going back to the game. In reply to post #55, I received the following:

I don't think you have even signed with us yet. We received your query form and referred you to the publisher.
You can wait to see what they offer you and refuse any offer if you want. You can always come back to us later.


I got to tell you, I can't even begin to figure out where all this is legally. They've acted as an agent in forwarding my query, yet they're saying they are not my agent. My confusion was conveyed to them in the following:

So I haven't signed with you yet? I'm confused. When does that happen? I thought agents signed writers before they referred them to publishers?

But I'm looking for help with my incomplete second book. I'm stuck in the middle and don't know how to fix it. And my understanding from both you and the publisher is that the publisher doesn't want to deal with unfinished manuscripts. So I thought you could help me with HORSE PROBLEMS.

This is keeping me amused. And it seems to be challenging them a bit to answer these inane questions.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

 

jclarkdawe

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Finally the glorious day came when I had an electronic file for VENOM, so I sent it in.

Attached you'll find my baby, VENOM, which I'm hoping that you'll love as much as I do.

I can't tell you how much I'm waiting to hear from you. I'd sell my first born, and probably my second born as well, to get VENOM published.

I received an email from my agent that has me a bit confused, as it seems to imply they're not actually my agent. Does that mean we can cut a deal and get rid of the 10% of the money VENOM is going to earn me?
The last sentence suffered from distraction and poor proof-reading skills. What can I say?

And I received the following canned response:

Thank you for your manuscript. It has been received and will be reviewed in the next week or so. There is no need to send additions, fixes, cover designs, etc. We can work with what you sent. There is always plenty of time to make changes if we decide to work together. We have a great editing department as well, so there is no need to worry about editing at this time.

You should be receiving a response within the next one or two weeks, usually on the early side. We appreciate your patience in our review time as we receive hundreds of submissions each week.

Would you mind helping us make a publishing decision by answering the book marketing questions below?
--------------------------------------------------
We want to know more about your available time, your technology background, and your sales proclivities. The key is consistency and focus.

=============================

Q) How much time per week do you have available to help us market your work?

A)

Q) How internet savvy and technical are you? Are you comfortable with new programs on the web? Do you have a blog? Do you post regularly? Please discuss.

A)

Q) Would you prefer to market on the web or market by going out and visiting locations, giving talks or book signings? Some authors want to get out there, some want to market only on the web, and some will do both. Tell us about how you feel about selling activities. Some people are very comfortable with public speaking and some are not.

A)

Q) Next, please read www.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com for an overview of the various programs that we offer. What would you most like to do in the first 30 days after your book is released to help market your work? Please choose 3 of the marketing techniques listed on our website and note them here along with any pertinent comments that you may have.

(NOTE: Depending on the situation, these marketing programs are generally free to the authors we publish under our traditional publishing contract).

1st Marketing Technique:

2nd Marketing Technique:

3rd Marketing Technique:

Thank you in advance to the answers to these questions. This will help us make up our mind as to which type of contract and agreement we can offer you. We would like to work with you and this will help us decide.

Sincerely,

xxxxxxxxxxx - Acquisitions Team

If you would like to speak with someone, please call xxxx at xxx-xxx-xxxx.

For a current listing and an example of our hundreds of books published please visit www.xxxxxxxxxxxx.com.

For a current listing and an example of our over 1000 books published please visit www.xxxxxxxxxx.com.

P.S. Please try to remember to keep all original emails threads in all of your replies. Our staff deals with hundreds of people on a daily basis and it makes for easy communication if the email that you are answering/responding to is right there. It makes things move smoothly, and I know you want that too!! Thanks.

******************************

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx is a progressively growing book marketing company that is making waves in the industry; combining new era ideals with old school fundamentals.

"The end goal is a match between publisher and author… and sales, sales, sales of books for our authors! We are an innovative book marketer and publisher…seeking authors that understand the importance of marketing in the equation. We believe we are more responsive than larger publishers." – says the PR Managing Director.

Authors on board love the new transparency of the house. As one client commented, "I am pleased that I can login anytime to check my sales and royalty status…this is something I never had at my previous publisher." This is one of the many new features of this innovative company. XXX understands that the author's book is their message to the world and that is why they have partnered with a PR team to showcase that talent to the right audience and provide the client with reasonable upgrades just as the larger houses do. Here are a few testimonials -

"This is great news! THANK YOU for your work on this!" – xxxxxx author of xxxxxxxxxxx reaction after being accepted in a Top 50 Border's Store.

xxxxxxxxx encourage authors to get active in their local literary scene; embracing positive people and energy. To see what types of books are being published, take a browse through titles and author news at the online magazine www.xxxxxxxx.com and read about author success stories on the Director of PR's blog: www.xxxxxxxx.com/blog .
One of the deals we are MOST PROUD OF, IS A DEAL TO TAKE OUR AUTHORS INTO CHINA. Here is a page from our partner's catalog when they take our authors to the Beijing Book Show this year.

PLEASE NOTE: AT THE FRANKFURT BOOKFAIR IN GERMANY THE CHINESE ARE AGGRESSIVELY SEEKING BOOKS OF ALL GENRES. We have meetings set for London in April. If you join us, you can be ready for the next book show. Depending on when you sign with us it could be next year (2010) in London/April 19-21, NY/May 25-27, Beijing/Aug 30-Sept 3, or Frankfurt/Oct. 6-10.

At the world's larges book event, Book Expo USA in 2009, Strategic exhibited their authors' work to an enthusiastic crowd and great success. To see pictures of our participation in the the event, please visit

Can you visualize yourself at the show next year?!
Yes, yes, yes, I can visualize myself at a show next year. Send me more.


Best of luck,


Jim Clark-Dawe
 

jclarkdawe

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Now the canned questions caused me some concern. I couldn't quite decide on who I was. But finally I was able to come up with some answers.

Wow! After hearing how slowly publishing works, to know that you can tell me in a week or so whether you've accepted my book is incredible. I'm so impressed with the speed of your operation.

Below are the answers to your questions. I will admit, I'm confused as I thought the publisher dealt with the marketing and the writer dealt with the writer.

Thanks for being willing to look at VENOM and I'm sure you'll love it


Q) How much time per week do you have available to help us market your work?

A) I'm retired, so I have a lot of time. I want to see VENOM on the NY Times Bestseller list and will do anything to make that happen.

Q) How internet savvy and technical are you? Are you comfortable with new programs on the web? Do you have a blog? Do you post regularly? Please discuss.

A) I'm not terribly good on the internet and use my grandson a lot for help. I'm not sure what a blog is and I don't know what you mean by "posting regularly."

Q) Would you prefer to market on the web or market by going out and visiting locations, giving talks or book signings? Some authors want to get out there, some want to market only on the web, and some will do both. Tell us about how you feel about selling activities. Some people are very
comfortable with public speaking and some are not.

A) I want to do whatever promotes VENOM the best.

Q) Next, please read www.xxxxxxxxxxxx.com for an overview of the various programs that we offer. What would you most like to do in the first 30 days after your bookis released to help market your work? Please choose 3 of the marketing techniques listed on our website and note them here along with any pertinent comments that you may have.

(NOTE: Depending on the situation, these marketing programs are generally free to the authors we publish under our traditional publishing contract).

I don't know what you mean by read www.xxxxxxxxxx.com. I don't think you've sent it to me yet.

1st Marketing Technique:



2nd Marketing Technique:



3rd Marketing Technique:



Thank you in advance to the answers to these questions. This will help us make up our mind as to which type of contract and agreement we can offer you. We would like to work with you and this will help us decide.
I also sent in a correction of my last email to the publisher. Definitely going to be interesting to see the response.

I realized when I reread this, that the last sentence got screwed up. What I meant to say is if the agency isn't actually representing me, can we make a deal without using the agency so I can save the 10% the agency is going to charge me?
Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

mccardey

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I'm really loving this thread (in a shaming sort of way)....
 

jclarkdawe

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And in response to post #58, I receive the following:

Sorry, we can't help you write it. You can get a critique done that might help you with writing the rest of the book.
If you want to you can send what you do have done for review.
which of course requires a response (and I've got to admit I'm wondering why the blue ink):

I realize you can't write my book for me, but I guess I was asking for a critique to give me some idea how to finish it. I just can't figure out what to do with it.

I've attached what I've got done.
Wasting time. What a simple approach to annoy someone.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

Bushdoctor

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good job jim. now imagine if he got a hundred of those a day
 

mccardey

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...I feel an evil plot forming...:evil

Oh -

Oh I think that sounds like a really terrific idea......

Can we get A Bunch of Writers to sign up for that?
 

jclarkdawe

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Now in response to the following email:

I realize you can't write my book for me, but I guess I was asking for a critique to give me some idea how to finish it. I just can't figure out what to do with it.

I've attached what I've got done.
I received the following canned response:

"A good plan initiated immediately and with vigor is better than the perfect Plan initiated after a two week wait" George Patton.

(Please make note that we are hiring and training right now and I am swamped. I am answering emails only 2-3 times per week, so please give me a few extra days to get back to you. I promise though, it will never be more than 4 days so if you haven't heard from me in that timeframe please feel free to send a followup).

Thank you for sending us your work for evaluation. It has been received successfully and it has been sent to our evaluation team.

We have NOT reviewed it at this time.
The review process takes about 1-2 weeks.

In the meantime, we ask that you please see the list of Frequently Asked Questions at the bottom of this email. Our goal is to answer every question you may have BEFORE you ask it. We try to be as efficient as possible so that we can review your work more quickly. (We know you will appreciate this too!)

Please do NOT send us any additional work during the review period. We wish to complete our review of this work and then, if appropriate, we can discuss your other works.

Please do NOT send us revisions or updates. We have more than enough to make a decision. (More on that below).

We take pride in the fact that we reply more quickly than most agencies. We expect it will take about one week to get back to you with our evaluation.

If you haven't heard from us in two weeks, please get back in touch with us in the chance that an email has been missed. Sometimes, with all the spam flying around, email can slip through the cracks (on both sides).

Thank you for sending your materials electronically; that's one of the reasons we can work so quickly. We believe you'll be pleasantly surprised by our swift decision-making process.

Best regards,
The Acquisitions Team

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS:
============================
In an effort to save time, here are answers to a few questions that we typically receive at this stage. As a testament to the fact that we're doing something right, here's a comment I just received, which nicely states my goal of efficiency:


***********************************************
"I do like the way you have organized your acquisitions process. It is efficient yet personal, answers almost every question that could be asked, and reflects your agency's experience with the business. Your prompt responses are impressive, although I have learned to be very patient with certain publishers. I always try very hard to meet deadlines, because I know how much it is appreciated by those in the business. I think I would be very comfortable working with you."
************************************************

What are you looking for during your evaluation?
-------------------------------------------------------------

We mainly look for COMMERCIAL VIABILITY in the work. "Is it something that will sell?" is of paramount importance to us. (We ARE NOT scrutinizing format, every word, spelling, and grammar usage. There's plenty of time later for that.). As we've mentioned earlier, we believe that great writers are made, not born, at least 99% of the time. But if a work doesn't have commercial potential, then we want to let you know as quickly as possible. Since we're willing to grow talent, we believe in the old adage, "luck is when opportunity meets preparation and hard work."

We love work that has been formally edited. As Literary Agents, we don't edit, we just sell. We try to let the editors work with our authors for creative, for mechanics, for everything related to the work itself, and then, we'll work with the writer for packaging, pitching, and presenting the work. Our core competency is selling what you write. (And editors and writers make lousy salespeople, so it works out.)

For more on what we do as agents (and as something to do while you are waiting for our review) you may wish to read our Agency Business Blog - http://www.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxcom/blog-overview.html

Our mission in the Acquisitions Department is clear and very "cut and dried". We answer 3 questions:

1. Will the subject matter sell? Is it commercially viable?
2. Is the writing good enough, or would it be good enough with some degree of assistance?
3. Did you as the evaluator like the work and would you believe in it if you were selling it?

If we get a "3 Yes" designation then you pass (at my level).

The next item we look for in our filtering process is your willingness to listen/make changes/, what your goals are, and what your overall demeanor is. We will very quickly wash out a great writer with a bad or cocky attitude.

I am sorry that there will not be a lot of personal interaction with me and my department. You will have much more personalized interaction with the agent, if/when you meet him/her.

We know that our process may seem impersonal. Here's what one author said, and our response.

*******************************************"
Sherry, I'd like to go ahead, but please allow me to make a friendly and respectful remark or two? Thanks for a quick and positive response. While I understand that you may be dealing with thousands of authors an manuscripts, and that you have to follow the advice of your attorneys, I would find it reassuring to get an email from a real live person, instead of automated responses. Greg"

Our Reply:

"Dear Greg, I completely understand the desire for a more touchy-feely, personalized relationship. I can promise you that you will have much more personalized interaction when/if you reach the Agent. We've done enough customer service satisfaction studies to know that lack of the personal touch is the number one complaint that we receive. We brainstorm constantly about how to improve in this area. However, in the acquisitions department, it's just not going to happen. It's a combination of too many applicants, and the fact that acquisitions is a cost-center, not a profit-center. It is very, very important that you understand that our core competency and revenue producing activity is selling your work. We stay in business because we maintain a laser-like focus on one thing, selling your work. Our agents spend all their time in contact with buyers, not applicants. It may feel cold, it may feel impersonal, but truthfully, you want an agency that stays in business because they know how to make money for their authors and themselves. I hope that helps you to understand our position on this issue and we sincerely ask your forebearance as you go through the process. Warm regards, Sherry"

P.s. The trade-off is that we are efficient and quick. Here's a quote from an author that appreciates these attributes.

"I just received the contract, and before I move on in the process, I wanted to tell you how much I appreciate all you and your company have done. I have never experienced such prompt and efficient responses, or dealt with a company who seems to truly care. Is it naive of me to believe your example will revolutionize the writing industry, or to hope that others will adopt your model?

Just a note to say thank you for your amazingly detailed, efficient and rapid service. When I resolved to get an agent this year or bust, I was prepared for the long haul. What I have encountered has been a whirlwind. I am sure that other agents worldwide will soon have to copy your submissions system as the model for a new industry standard, or become extinct."
********************************************

What if you find errors or problems with my work?
-------------------------------------------------------------------

We receive very few 'ready-to-go' manuscripts. We believe we are unique in that we are willing to work with our authors to develop their manuscript and their talent. Most manuscripts that we receive need some level of polishing before we can submit them to buyers. Some need very little polishing. Some need a lot. Over the years, we've learned that it is worth our time and effort to do what it takes to develop new talent. We've learned that incubating new talent makes good business sense. We are looking for a long-term relationship in a slow-moving industry. We can take our time with you to get it right the first time.

There are two levels of editing. The first is our internal level. The second is the publisher level. When you pass our first level, it means that we will put our reputation on the line for you, however, it doesn't mean that it has been exhaustively edited, like a publisher would do. Their edit is MUCH more extensive. Our edit requirements are related to pitching and selling only.

I didn't send my entire manuscript; don't you need the entire manuscript to make a decision?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------

By assessing your synopsis and query form with the writing you sent us, we can determine if the synopsis is adequate and interesting, and whether your writing style and skills are capable of being brought to professional industry standards. In other words, what we have is enough for us to determine if we want to work with you. (The ugly truth is that we can usually determine if we like your writing and writing style within the all-important first chapter.) After that, the rest of it is about your attitude.

We like to work with pleasant people in a professional manner.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------

We are absolutely committed to a professional relationship and professional communications; as you may have noticed, we have included that as one of our top four signature items. We sincerely ask that you take the same professional attitude in our communications as well. If we make a mistake, or if you don't like the way we do things, please seek first to understand. We make mistakes like any company does.

What's next?
-------------------------
If we believe your work has commercial viability, we will let you know with a "positive review" and inform you about how we will work with you to bring your work to the marketplace. Because we are vertically integrated in the publishing world, we have the ability to do more with an author than most other agencies can do.

How long does this evaluation for commercial viability take?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

About a week. We know waiting is the hardest part and we've been in your shoes. We will do everything we can to get back to you as quickly as we can. By now you probably understand a few dynamics of this industry. First, most agencies and buyers are absolutely swamped, and second, this seems to be the slowest-moving industry in the world. So, if you haven't heard from us in 2 weeks, please drop us an email about your status. Our best guess though is that you will hear from us in about 5-10 days. We maintain enough readers and evaluators to keep that level of service.

I have other work, may I send it?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Please allow us to decide if we wish to represent this work. Later we can discuss your other manuscripts.

I just made a revision, should I send it?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
No, please don't send a revision, illustrations, etc. We have enough material to determine commercial viability. Writers are constantly revising their work. If we represent you, we will spend time making sure that everything is just right before we send it out. We have plenty of time.

I have a few questions for you and your company
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are happy to answer your questions, however, we would appreciate it if you wait until after our review and notification process is complete. At that time we will provide you with quite a bit more information, or we will pass. By waiting until the review period is over to ask further questions we will each save time. However, if you have a burning question, or just want to see if I'm really out here, then email me directly and I'll get back to you within 2-3 days (excluding vacations, weekends, etc.)

Is my manuscript safe?
---------------------------------------
Your manuscript is completely safe within our company. We take care to properly manage all access and if we don't end up working together, we delete all files.

What are my chances of success?
--------------------------------------------------------------
We never sugarcoat the odds. The odds are long, long, and long. However, when hard work meets the right opportunity, then magic sometimes occurs. We've had four sales so far and we think we have at least that many in the pipeline.


What happens if you don't sell my work?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
When a work doesn't sell, we see authors go in one of three directions, either 1) let's keep trying, 2) I'll find another agent, or 3) it must be that the agent is not real, a bad guy, etc. If we accept you and can't sell your work within a year, we will let you know and you can decide what steps to take. We can't promise a sale, but we can promise a professional relationship together. Also, there will be no surprises. We will inform you of every step along the way (mainly with these long, but information packed, emails <grin>).

I see typos and grammar problems in these long emails, aren't you supposed to be perfect if you're in this industry? (I love it when editors rip me apart <grin>, and believe me they do!)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are the writer, not me. We used to spend time and money trying to make sure everything was perfect, but it just wasn't worth the overhead. You get graded on your writing, I get graded on how efficiently I find new and wonderful properties. Please excuse (or let me know about) any errors, but if you see one, just grin and bear it (please!).

Is this an automated email?
----------------------------------------------
Yes of course. We are simply communicating that we received your work and we are attempting to answer the majority of questions that we've heard at this stage. The more time we save on the front end, the more time we have for selling our clients' work on the back end.

You will have much more personalized interaction when you reach the Agent after your work is polished to perfection!

Why do you advertise? I thought agents were hard to find and deal with?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are very different. Why? Here's a great example. We believe we sold six (that's right, 6) romance authors to a publisher that wants to publish 10 this year in China. We have incredible "depth off the bench" and publishers like that. In our case, more is better. We hope to announce these sales formally once we get the contracts later this year.

Now, sit back, try to relax (we know it's tough) and give us about a week. If you haven't heard from us in 10 business days, please email me and I'll figure out what happened.
I love their explanation as to why I shouldn't worry about the quality of editing in these canned responses. Considering some of them pop-up with Word's grammar program (long emails should never be composed on the internet), I was wondering if the editor was even more challenged than Word.


Best of luck,


Jim Clark-Dawe
 

WriterMomto3

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I, too, cannot believe that Fletcher has not found this thread. Is it that he's just too full of himself that he doesn't care? This is probably one of a thousand and if he gets $$ for 999 critiques, that's pretty good money off of a scam. I'm surprised they haven't asked you for the money to perform the critique yet...I'm sure it's coming, unless I missed it?
 

jclarkdawe

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I, too, cannot believe that Fletcher has not found this thread. Is it that he's just too full of himself that he doesn't care? This is probably one of a thousand and if he gets $$ for 999 critiques, that's pretty good money off of a scam. I'm surprised they haven't asked you for the money to perform the critique yet...I'm sure it's coming, unless I missed it?

He hasn't asked yet, but it's getting closer. But I have some money for him already budgeted.

Now here's a question for people. Back in post #52 I answered some questions. But when I sent in the question asking about dumping the agent to the publisher, I attached the manuscript again. Wouldn't you know, it triggered another canned question form. I could answer it the same, or I could answer it entirely different. Any opinions? And feel free to send me your view by a rep point or PM if you want.

And in response to:
I realize you can't write my book for me, but I guess I was asking for a critique to give me some idea how to finish it. I just can't figure out what to do with it.

I've attached what I've got done.
I received:

First let us review it and then if we want to re present you we will send you a referral for a critique.
What a wonderful sentence.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

 

WriterMomto3

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I bet they use some of the answers in those questionnaires to decide how many services they can sell you. If you answered some of the questions differently, it would be interesting to see what other email responses that generates. Say, for example, you said you were really great at blogging, would they try to sell you a different service? JMHO.
 

Inkblot

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Second is the something for nothing approach. Anyone who has been on AW for a while knows that an agent is going to request revisions. The number of people on this forum who submitted to an agent and got that manuscript submitted to publishers without any changes at all are few and far between. More normally, the agent says, "I like it, but change something." Here, based on merely the query, it's sent to the publisher? Something for nothing.

I don't think the lack of a request for revisions is a red flag in itself. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if part of this scam involves an attempt to steer manuscripts that are unfinished or need work to an "independent" editor the author is expected to pay. (But who actually is part of the scam.)

While many legitimate agents do request revisions, they don't always do so; and it's probably a more common practice among those who were editors before they were agents. My AAR agent -- whose whole career has been in agenting -- didn't ask me to revise my manuscript before selling it to one of the large publishers. Editing is so subjective; any changes she requested would have been different from the changes any specific editor would have made.
 

WriterMomto3

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Ugh...another ugly head to this

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if part of this scam involves an attempt to steer manuscripts that are unfinished or need work to an "independent" editor the author is expected to pay. (But who actually is part of the scam.)

I think it's more likely that the editors are under-paid employees or freelancers who think they have a legitimate job. They are either fresh-out-of school or not very good editors, or they would be working somewhere else making better money. This is just another way for these scam artists to use people for their own benefit--charge the author a fee and then subcontract out the job for a quarter of the price. Nobody wins except the scammer.