The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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patfish

Eric Enck

I am the Blogger who wrote about Eric Enck on my thread referred to by Ann. I am sorry this is the first time I have posted a reply on this forum although I am registered obviously.

Eric Enck is a bad, bad, bad apple. He is NOT a famous writer. The story on my blog is absolutely true. AND I have lots of other info on him from other people who have contacted me via my Blog entry.

It's even worse.

If he's involved in that PA joke it only makes them look worse.

Do not take Eric Enck's endorsement of PA to mean anything.

Except bad stuff.

Everything he says is suspect.

HTML:
 http://patfish.blogspot.com/2005/02/gossip-pic-of-week-hillary-stamp-and.html
 

Jeff

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One thing "Ten Percent of Nothing" taught me was that you don't have to be super intelligent to run a successful scam - just be amoral as hell and luck into a good idea/concept. And who do we know out there who might fit into those parameters?

Which brings up a question in my mind:

What other industry exists where so many people will put so much of their hard work into it without perhaps doing too much of what should be the requisite research and who will then be so satisfied by a shoddy product and the pitiful returns produced versus the industry norm?

These scumbags prey on people's dreams -- and when people dream sometimes they disconnect the part of the brain that controls rational thought. We've already talked about fear, and how oftentimes it is fear as well that drives people into the clutches of companies like PA -- not to mention that fear is what keeps them there and keeps them bailing furiously as the leaking pirate ship lists alarmingly lower in the water.

Damn, but it makes me both frustrated and angry. Frustrated to see the people who should know better being kept from writing their next work because they have to go out and "market" a product that has such a slim chance of succeeding, and angry that there are people like the three stoogies who just smile and nod and prey on these people while stuffing cash into their pockets.

I'm glad that there are people like those here who speak out and work to educate people. To be a part of the writers fraternity/sorority/whatever and to speak up about such scams is, as I see it, a moral issue. If we don't help and help to protect one another, who will?

And thats all I know about that.
 

Galoot

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AnneMarble said:
I did see a review by "SK "Stephen" (Maine)." Don't know if that's the same guy. :) No way of telling, of course. Stephen King does like a lot of books, but doesn't he usually sign his name when he says something nice about a book? (Like when he does blurbs.)
I imagine he would. But if someone were to, oh...I dunno, impersonate the man, I imagine he'd be right pissed if they used his full name to do so. Especially if the impersonator couldn't even spell "Exorcist" properly.
 

Diana Hignutt

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I accept responsibility...

From the ABC Bashes PA Thread:

The disgruntled authors (whoever they are) can
complain all they want to wherever they want, as long
as they know there are consequences and accept the
responsibility for them. But do they?

Since I can't respond to the good people on their own board:

Personally, I felt a great deal of guilt knowing that a large number of PA Authors would be hurt by the interview I did, and background info I provided, for the Action News story. Yes, I knew that it would make things harder still for those authors to sell their books. Some of those people are/were my friends. That doesn't change the fact that PA sabotages their efforts even more than I ever could. In the end, I chose to support the greater good. If telling the truth hurts people...it was only a matter of time before they were gonna be hurt. Maybe they don't see that now, maybe some never will. If you are a PA author who was hurt by my interview, I apologize, but I may have saved thousands of people the misfortune of dealing with PA. It was worth it. I accept responsibility.

Diana Hignutt
author of Empress of Clouds (Behler), a 2005 Spectrum Award nominee and 2004 ForeWord Book of the Year Award Finalist for Science Fiction.

P.S. - I don't work for any publishing company, and haven't in over three months. I don't now, nor have I ever, owned any part of any publishing company (except maybe as part of some mutual fund or something).
 
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Sher2

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lindylou45 said:
There's a forum on www.publishamericasucks.com. Anyone can post, even Larry, Curlem, Moe-randa, and their Real Estate lawyer too. I'd love to hear from them. :hi:
You won't hear from them. After all, that would take a certain amount of backbone. They'll send in flying monkeys to do their dirty work.
 

Ed Williams

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CJ, I hate to brag on ya...

Canada James said:
I hope it's not me ... it's not, is it? :crazy:

Canada James
....right out in public and all, but it's not. Actually, I am greatly enjoying your posts, excellent information and your way of presenting it is super. Hell, at this rate, I might even fork over the money and purchase your new book when it comes out - and, to give you a chance to gratuitously plug it, when will that be? Or is it already out and I have my dates mixed up?
 

Ed Williams

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Why writers, in their own words, select PA....

...and what the painful realities are...

PA gave me 5 free author copies of my book.
PA Published my book for free.
They didn't, you're just paying the vanity fee on the back end rather than the front.

PublishAmerica gave me the chance to realize my lifelong dream of having my book published. I haven't received my proofs yet, I'm not that far along, but I am thrilled that I have signed the contract and received my $1 advance.
And that feeling will continue, unless you actually want your book to get into bookstores, be reviewed, you know, those silly little things that a lot of us authors want...

PublishAmerica is much better than the alternative, dealing with agencies which just want your money and don't really help you any.
Agencies that ask you for money never help you, they just help themselves to your wallet.

PA has honored everything they promised this far.
Yep, they took a computer file you sent them, did no editing, and tagged a healthy price onto your work for their efforts.

PublishAmerica are my publishers and always will be. To be given this chance and to actually have my book is all I could have asked for.
If all you want is a book to hold in your hands and that's it, PA might not be a bad deal. Thirty bucks (copyright fee) for two books, could be worse, I guess.

It is not only myself, how many others they have helped? Life is tough but nothing compares with being published authors.
Not to be unduly mean, but the reality is you're now a printed author, not a published one.

Hey I am seventy-five, a young seventy-five, if that makes any sense, and P.A. is giving me the chance to see my books in print, I could not ask for anymore than that; unless its to sell fifty or sixty thousand books this time around.
I assure you that with PA you won't have to worry about selling fifty or sixty thousand books.

PA took my struggles, pains, lessons, jewels gathered in the process, joys and triumphs and gave them a voice. PA gave me the ability to reach out and touch thousands of others who have walked or are currently walking this same journey as I.
I'm sorry you've had struggles, but I'm afraid PA will add some new ones to your journey.

I received my first royalty cheque, and felt very proud and achieved, regardless of the amount.I was very pleased with the support that they have given to me.
There's nothing to be proud of re pittance royalties, and the only support involved here is the support to the New Three Stooges' wallets that you've provided them.

 

Christine N.

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Sher2 said:
Oh, for sure. It's much akin to cutting his own throat. Future pubs/agents/readers are going to wonder if he was suicidal, got a sweetheart deal he couldn't refuse, or just what he was thinking.

If you read that blog entry about him, he sounds like he's arrogant AND stipid. Ppppptththththttt! Well, maybe his PA experience will take him down a notch.
 

Sher2

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Christine N. said:
If you read that blog entry about him, he sounds like he's arrogant AND stipid. Ppppptththththttt! Well, maybe his PA experience will take him down a notch.
Yup, bitten by the stipid bug. The PA experience will have the same effect on his career as a can of Raid. :ROFL:
 

Ed Williams

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Either that or....

Sher2 said:
Yup, bitten by the stipid bug. The PA experience will have the same effect on his career as a can of Raid. :ROFL:
....PA cut him a sweetheart deal that they don't cut for the vast majority of their authors...
 

Sher2

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Ed Williams said:
....PA cut him a sweetheart deal that they don't cut for the vast majority of their authors...
I'm not sure what a PA "sweetheart deal" would consist of, though. $2.00 advance? 5 author copies? 9% royalties on net? 6-year contract? Maybe he just got run out of Dodge on a rail and PA was the only town that would take him in. Either way, he's screwed.
 

Ed Williams

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Believe me...

Sher2 said:
I'm not sure what a PA "sweetheart deal" would consist of, though. $2.00 advance? 5 author copies? 9% royalties on net? 6-year contract? Maybe he just got run out of Dodge on a rail and PA was the only town that would take him in. Either way, he's screwed.
....Jamie Farr got a far better deal than the typical PA author, they'll come up off the money if they think it's worth it for them...
 

Sher2

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Ed Williams said:
....Jamie Farr got a far better deal than the typical PA author, they'll come up off the money if they think it's worth it for them...
He probably did, but his office "doesn't talk about that." As for the other guy, who knows what he's thinking. I've made a fool of myself about a million times and will no doubt do it a million more -- but never on purpose.
 

Sparhawk

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Local author Night attack

Two weeks ago I was invited to speak and answer questions about my PA Book at a nearby town library and accepted the invitation. The date was last night. I arrived with a copy of HYBRID, my book and a few extra copies that I had planned to give away if there was any interest. I met two other writers from my area and we began talking about the ups and downs that we've experienced etc. SO far so good.

Teh three of us are intoroduced to a small gathering of about 15 people, my wife and son included. Each writer spoke about there book for a few minutes and then read an excerpt and fielded questions. I was last. I did my six pages of reading and was prepared to answer questions.

THere was a gentleman in the front row who launched the dealdly torpedo up may "Aft" ;

"How do you feel knowing that your publisher has been labled disreputable and actually impedes the success of their writers?"

"How do you respond to the fact that several PA authors are actively working to close your publisher?"

Shotgun fashion bang!, bang!

My wife said that my jaw dropped and my eyes nearly popped out of my head. I admit that I was totally unprepared. THe other writers were simply asked puffball questions about their book and their current works in progress. I figure I'd have a great plug for my next book;

BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! I have to deal with the ghost of PA.

I looked around quickly and it was obvious that the librarians were embarrassed for me but I still had to come up with an answer. I didn't think it would look good to really say how I felt about PA seeing as I was holding one of their books... MINE, in my hot little hand. But I'd be damned if I was going to sit here and defend their business practices.

Anyhow here was my response, more or less.

"When I signed with Publish America, I was very grateful and excited that a publishing company thought that my book was worthy enough to be printed and distrubuted. At that particular time I was not aware of the current controversy surrounding PA. I was simply overjoyed to have my book released and made several assumptions about PA that were incorrect.

TIme and experience, for good or for bad, are excellent teachers and I, unfortuantely, discovered these truths after I had signed my contract and received my books. I beleive that my book has merit and can stand on it's own regardless of the publisher or said publishers tarnished image. If you really want to know the detailed story of PA, discover it the same way I did through Absolutewrite.com. There are no lies or politics there, just actual PA authors who have been through what I am currently going through.

I don't feel that this is the appropriate forum to further adress this issue. If you have a question about my book I'd be mnore than happy to answer it."

Well, that's pretty much it. The guy wrote a few things down in a spiral pad and then gave me a couple of real questions pertaining to my Novel.. he actually did read it, but at that point I already was in dire need of a bathroom break and a large splash of cold water on my face because I knew I was red with discomfort.

My son said he had never seen me turn so red before and he actually heard one of the librarians groan when the questions were asked.

Bottom line, the word about PA IS getting out there.
 

bluwinteryfox

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Sher2 said:
Yeah, okay, bring the poker. I'm sufficiently pissed to poke anything that moves. We'll make hamburger out of little ol' 3-headed closet monsters. They might go pretty good with the marshmallows.
Sherry, the 3-headed closet monsters are poison. I don't know about you, but I don't eat poison. Why not just poke them really good, then we can find a corn field and put them up to scare away all the crows. I don't want to lose you or anyone else to food poisoning.
 

Sher2

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Sparhawk said:
"How do you respond to the fact that several PA authors are actively working to close your publisher?"

I looked around quickly and it was obvious that the librarians were embarrassed for me but I still had to come up with an answer. I didn't think it would look good to really say how I felt about PA seeing as I was holding one of their books... MINE, in my hot little hand. But I'd be damned if I was going to sit here and defend their business practices.

Anyhow here was my response, more or less.

"When I signed with Publish America, I was very grateful and excited that a publishing company thought that my book was worthy enough to be printed and distrubuted. At that particular time I was not aware of the current controversy surrounding PA. I was simply overjoyed to have my book released and made several assumptions about PA that were incorrect.

TIme and experience, for good or for bad, are excellent teachers and I, unfortuantely, discovered these truths after I had signed my contract and received my books. I beleive that my book has merit and can stand on it's own regardless of the publisher or said publishers tarnished image. If you really want to know the detailed story of PA, discover it the same way I did through Absolutewrite.com. There are no lies or politics there, just actual PA authors who have been through what I am currently going through.

I don't feel that this is the appropriate forum to further adress this issue. If you have a question about my book I'd be mnore than happy to answer it."


Bottom line, the word about PA IS getting out there.
Spar, I'm so sorry you had to endure such a painful situation. It sounds like you handled yourself with aplomb, though. And the word about PA IS getting out, thanks to the efforts of you and people like you. Kudos.
 

Sher2

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bluwinteryfox said:
Sherry, the 3-headed closet monsters are poison. I don't know about you, but I don't eat poison. Why not just poke them really good, then we can find a corn field and put them up to scare away all the crows. I don't want to lose you or anyone else to food poisoning.
Don't worry, LynnEtte -- if I see one, I'll poke its eyes out. :D
 

victoriastrauss

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Ed Williams said:
One thing "Ten Percent of Nothing" taught me was that you don't have to be super intelligent to run a successful scam - just be amoral as hell and luck into a good idea/concept.
Ed, I rarely disagree with you, fount of humor and wisdom that you are...but here I must differ. Dorothy's scam (and Jim Van Treese's scam, and Don Phelan's scam, and Martha Ivery's scam, and the Titsworths' scam) weren't successful, because they got greedy, crashed and burned, and got caught. Sure, they were all flying high for a while, but they weren't able to sustain it. A successful scam is one that lasts.

Case in point: Cynthia Sterling of the Lee Shore Agency/Sterling House Publishers/C. Shore Publishers. She has been running a soup to nuts literary scam for longer than any of the others (marketing fees, editing fees, fees for a zillion adjunct services, kickbacks from Edit Ink, kickbacks from various vanity publishers, shoving clients into her own vanity publisher) and it's still going strong--and I get fewer complaints about her than about any of the major scammers, and even many of the not-exactly-scammers, I'm tracking.

What are the hallmarks of a successful scam?

- A professional front. Cynthia has nice stationary and professional-looking literature. She doesn't make typos or basic grammatical errors. She knows the lingo, and can use it with authority. She talks nice on the phone. Word is she and her staff make vicious fun of clients in private, but to their faces clients are treated with an appearance of respect.

- Give clients something for their money. A fundamental mistake that a lot of scammers make is to take the money and disappear, or browbeat clients when they ask for information, or tell ridiculous lies to excuse nonperformance, or provide a service (such as editing) that even a total newbie can recognize as fake. So Cynthia actually does red-pencil the manuscripts she takes on for editing. She really does make submissions, thus generating form rejection letters, so clients have something physical to hold: "Look! My literary agent's working for me!" When, after months of rejections, it finally comes time to make the pitch for vanity publishing, she doesn't try to pretend they won't have to pay, and really does print up their books (not in the numbers she promises, of course--just the 200 or so she puts in the author's hands. She's gambling--correctly--that she won't get caught, since the author will be hard put to sell even that many).

- Don't get greedy. Don't push the scam parameters to the breaking point. Don't milk your clients to the last parasitic gasp. String people along. Fleece them slowly and gently. Let them go while they still have something left.

- Don't get crazy. A successful sociopath knows how to blend in, and has enough self-control to maintain a convincing pretense of sanity (the Deerings and Martha Ivery especially had major problems with this).

- Don't forget that your clients are your lifeline. Sure, you may loathe them. You may totally despise them. But they're your business. They need to be cultivated even as you screw them. A really basic error a lot of scammers make is that they can't keep their glee or their arrogance or their contempt properly hidden.

The above is why Cynthia is still in business, and probably going to be in business for some time to come. If anyone wants to take pointers for a successful scam, take them from her.

- Victoria
 

Kate Nepveu

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Gravity said:
Mixed in with the ususal storm detritus, the beach was littered with thousands upon thousands of stranded starfish, obviously swept up from the the sea floor during the storm's fury.
This is off-topic, but I just wanted to share an extension of this parable, a musings about questions it raises (which says jellyfish but was meant to be starfish, see comments): http://www.livejournal.com/users/papersky/220521.html
 
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James D. Macdonald

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Sparhawk said:
Well, that's pretty much it. The guy wrote a few things down in a spiral pad and then gave me a couple of real questions pertaining to my Novel.. he actually did read it, but at that point I already was in dire need of a bathroom break and a large splash of cold water on my face because I knew I was red with discomfort.

Three gets you seven that guy was a newspaper reporter, and you'll be reading more about PublishAmerica real soon.
 

Ed Williams

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Victoria, I shall happily defer...

...you're 100% correct in your assertion re scams. I have this bad tendency to equate all scams as failed ones because that's exactly where I want them to be - in the land of failure. You're right, it does take some measure of savvy and a sort of an intelligent ruthlessness to perpetuate a long running, "successful" scam.

A quick dip over in Lake Poz reveals:

The disgruntled authors (whoever they are) can
complain all they want to wherever they want, as long
as they know there are consequences and accept the
responsibility for them. But do they?
Cuz, you know I think the world of you, but what possible bad consequences could there be for authors who complain about PA? Poor book sales? That was assured when they signed their contracts with PA. Being kicked off the PA boards? That could happen to any one of y'all at any time, just ask a legit question about royalty payments, the no-returns policy, or whatever and see what happens. Better yet, mention the two words that shake PA's nerves and rattles their brains:

"Atlanta Nights"

 

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Jeff said:
Which brings up a question in my mind:

What other industry exists where so many people will put so much of their hard work into it without perhaps doing too much of what should be the requisite research and who will then be so satisfied by a shoddy product and the pitiful returns produced versus the industry norm?...
Investing. Time and again I have seen (and at times experienced) cult mentality and rationalization among investors in stocks that bark. It may primarily be money and sometimes time they put in rather than work per se, but there are parallels.

IMHO FWIW.

--Ken
 

DeadlyAccurate

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Many writer's guilds do not accept PA authors.

Bookstores do not, as a rule, accept PA's books.

Many (most?) legitimate agents and publishers do not consider PA authors to be published and may in fact have a poor opinion of the author's work because of their association (unfair but reality).

PA books are priced higher than similarly-sized books, meaning fewer people are going to want to purchase them.

The books have to be ordered, so people who run down to the store to buy a PA book won't be able to find it and are less likely to go to the trouble of ordering it once they find it's not available.

PA gives a pittance advance, below-normal royalties and fewer author's copies than most publishers.

Many royalty statements don't even get into the two-digit numbers, let alone three-digit.

PA holds the right to publish for seven years.

PA expects the authors to sell their current books instead of writing more books.

Editing is minimal at best.



So tell me again why people consider PA a good choice?

ETA: Well, I was going to add that people who joined PA obviously did so intending to be published authors, hopefully the same type of published authors that Sue Grafton, Stephen King, etc. are, but Jim said the same thing in the next post, only better.
 
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