How many POVs in the same chapter?

You would want to provide a scene break between the change in POV. Some use a single number sign (#) and some use three (###). In a printed book this will indicate to the typesetter to add extra space between the sections and also indicate to a reader that the next section is a change (it could be a major jump in time, a change in POV, etc.).

As Alleycat said, the norm is to use a scene break when you change povs within the same chapter.

As for how many times you can do this: it really depends on your chapter length. Some books only have one pov per chapter, others might have two or three different ones. Jumping too quickly or frequently can be unsettling, even with scene break.

Check out some books by authors who do this and see the different ways the author handles it.

I usually use separate chapters for my different POVs. I think a scene break could work, but changing chapter entirely and having the new character's name as a heading has always worked for me as a reader. GoT style

Stephen Ling often has so many scene breaks in a chapter, each with a different POV, that I can't even guess at how many he uses. Some entire novels are written this way. There is no limit to how many POVs you can use in a chapter, as long as you scene break each one.

Jamesaritchie said:

Stephen Ling often has so many scene breaks in a chapter, each with a different POV, that I can't even guess at how many he uses. Some entire novels are written this way. There is no limit to how many POVs you can use in a chapter, as long as you scene break each one.

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With the added caveat "as long as you do it well". There are also a lot of good writers who don't employ multiple POVs. If you are being tempted to use a lot of different POVs, or switch POVs often, because it feels convenient to you, as writer, be cautious. You may be using them to over-explain, under the infection of but-the-reader-needs-to-know-this thinking. Or you might be better served to write in omniscient POV. Every change in POV presents a complication to the reader, and the more of these you pile up, the bigger becomes the complication. Be very sure you can handle a single POV properly, because what you're really trying to do is to present a sequence of single POVs. It's very easy to drift into head-hopping or, maybe worse, vague POV drifting.

Yes, Stephen King does lots of POV shifts. He's also Stephen King, and does it damn well. If you're going to venture down this writing path, you may need to emulate Stephen King.

caw

Maximiljen said:

So far I got that a break and a change of POV in the middle of the chapter is allowed

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All is allowed; nothing is forbidden.

What matter is if you're good enough to pull it off.

The general problem frequent with POV breaks is that it can disrupt the flow of narration. If they're all participating in the same event, it might not be a problem. One example I can recall had all the characters at an event in one room, right before a big, dramatic somethingorother occurred, and leading up to that event, the transitions came faster and faster until right as it occurred, each POV was only a sentence fragment (maybe something Stephen King did? I really can't remember who), but it worked, because it provided a disjointed, but captivating 'whole' picture of the event as it happened.

On the other hand, especially if it's a character far removed from what was happening in the previous POV, frequent changes are much more likely to have a disruptive effect on the reading process.

It certainly can't hurt to experiment with it, but that's the kind of thing that is good to pay extra attention to how it works after you've written it, and try running it past a few readers to see their opinion of it. Anyone can tell you what they _think_ of your idea to do something non-traditional and experimental, but the only way to get definite proof is to try it out.

Maximiljen said:

Thanks everybody for the valuable info and opinions!
So far I got that a break and a change of POV in the middle of the chapter is allowed, as long as I make it obvious for the reader. And the **** or the #### look like the best option. I am considering writing in italics, if it's an inner monologue. Say, if the MC is walking a lonely road and I have to give him something to do in order to build him/her up. Or if he's got a rough night and can't get sleep. I think it's better to write the monologue like that, instead of using 3rd person.

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This is very much a matter of taste and style. I've even seen writers who do different characters differently in this respect. The use or not of italics for inner monologue, however, can be used in any third-person viewpoint, whether it's limited/subjective (seen through the character's eyes) third, or omniscient (the narrator's viewpoint) third.

A simplistic example (and yes, there are infinite ways to write in any pov):

Omni (narrator's pov).

Tom hunched over and rubbed at his neck as he walked down the moonlit road. He had no idea whether or not something was hiding behind the trees, and that was rather worrisome, since he wasn't a terribly brave man.

or Omni (narrator's pov) with italicized inner monologue

Tom hunched over and rubbed at his neck as he walked down the moonlit road. I wonder if something is hiding behind those trees, he thought. He wasn't a terribly brave man, so the whole situation was rather worrisome.


Limited third with inner first person monolog italicized.

Tom's neck prickled as he walked down the moonlit road. I wonder if something is hiding behind those trees. That would be horrible.

Limited third with inner monologue represented with "deeper" narrative.

Tom's neck prickled as he walked down the moonlit road. Was something hiding behind the trees? God, what a horrible thought.

How do your favorite authors handle this sort of thing? This might be a good time to get some of those books out and study the way they handle point of view and the representation of the characters' thoughts and perceptions. Not to copy their style, but to appreciate the different ways an author can take you into a scene and character.

I prefer one POV per chapter. It annoys me when an author puts in several, even with the asterisks to show the switch.

Having said that; if the author did it with just a couple of chapters here and there rather than for most of the book, I could live with that. Stylistically, it could even make a nice change, shake things up a bit (which sort of contradicts my first paragraph, but okay). I've done it myself, but only when I absolutely have to.

I tend to use only one POV a chapter. However as you mentioned, a scene break would work as well.

Thomas Vail said:

All is allowed; nothing is forbidden.

What matter is if you're good enough to pull it off.

The general problem frequent with POV breaks is that it can disrupt the flow of narration. If they're all participating in the same event, it might not be a problem..

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I find teh opposite to be true. If they're all participating in the same event, I hate it when the writer uses different POVs. It just isn't necessary.

I think multiple POVs works best when the location changes with each break, just as King usually dos it.

It's certainly not at all uncommon, and as long as the characters all have a connection to the story, it isn't at all difficult to pull off.

blacbird said:

With the added caveat "as long as you do it well". There are also a lot of good writers who don't employ multiple POVs. If you are being tempted to use a lot of different POVs, or switch POVs often, because it feels convenient to you, as writer, be cautious. You may be using them to over-explain, under the infection of but-the-reader-needs-to-know-this thinking. Or you might be better served to write in omniscient POV. Every change in POV presents a complication to the reader, and the more of these you pile up, the bigger becomes the complication. Be very sure you can handle a single POV properly, because what you're really trying to do is to present a sequence of single POVs. It's very easy to drift into head-hopping or, maybe worse, vague POV drifting.

Yes, Stephen King does lots of POV shifts. He's also Stephen King, and does it damn well. If you're going to venture down this writing path, you may need to emulate Stephen King.

caw

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I think it depends on the story. "Doing it well" applies to everything we we do, however we do it. I don't think multiple POVs are any mor difficult to write than single POVs, and t's pretty tough to write a really long, epic style novel without using quite a few POVs. The question is usually whether you wait and switch with each chapter, or use scene breaks within a chapter.

I think omniscient is the real danger. Very, very few writers even know what omniscient is. They think they know, but what they write is merely third person limited with head-hopping, and this has nothing to do with omniscient.

I run into this with writing groups, and in slush piles, constantly. I find a lot of head-hopping, ask the writer about it, and they say they're writing omniscient.

I do think using multiple POVs within a chapter is something to be careful about, and I think the writer needs a reason beyond not knowing how to write the story from a single POV, but I don't think it's terribly hard to do, IF the writer is consistent..

Maximiljen said:

Thanks everybody for the valuable info and opinions!
So far I got that a break and a change of POV in the middle of the chapter is allowed, as long as I make it obvious for the reader. And the **** or the #### look like the best option. I am considering writing in italics, if it's an inner monologue. Say, if the MC is walking a lonely road and I have to give him something to do in order to build him/her up. Or if he's got a rough night and can't get sleep. I think it's better to write the monologue like that, instead of using 3rd person.

s

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If you're self-publishing, any symbols are fine to indicate scene breaks. If you're writing for a commercial publisher, just us a single #. This is a proofreaders' mark that tell both editor and typesetter exactly what you want done. In the published novel, they'll insert whatever symbols that particular publisher prefers, but in the manuscript, always use proofreaders' marks.

Italics get old fast. Interiour monologue doesn't need italics. They really change nothing, but simply make it more tiring to read, when they go on long at all.

Jamesaritchie said:

I think omniscient is the real danger. Very, very few writers even know what omniscient is. They think they know, but what they write is merely third person limited with head-hopping, and this has nothing to do with omniscient.

. . . .

I do think using multiple POVs within a chapter is something to be careful about, and I think the writer needs a reason beyond not knowing how to write the story from a single POV, but I don't think it's terribly hard to do, IF the writer is consistent..

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Our two POVs are on the same page in regard to both these quoted statements.

Most of the problems with narrative POV in manuscripts I've read result from the writer not having Clue One about POV, period. I've talked to more than one who simply didn't realize there was such a concept in narrative. I've read others purported to be in multiple POVs, in which no single POV was handled well, let alone the borders between them.

caw

Long sections in italics can be tiring to read. I do see interior monolog in italics, especially when the tense changes from past tense narration to present tense monolog. Otherwise the tense change can be jaring to the reader.