Plaincloths NYC cop repeatedly and forcibly punches hand-cuffed, restrained 12 year old

Bartholomew

Comic guy
Kind Benefactor
Poetry Book Collaborator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
8,507
Reaction score
1,956
Location
Kansas! Again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cO2BLmc6yQ

Strong language, thought that should really be the least of any concerned citizens' complaints.

This is far, far from an isolated incident. Why are the police a cudgel used to oppress minorities, and specifically racial minorities? What can we do about it?

In what world are the police here being anything remotely resembling professional? How are they serving the public?

More importantly, when are we going to start stripping them of their badges and tossing them into cells?
 
Last edited:

Unimportant

No COVID yet. Still masking.
Staff member
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
19,856
Reaction score
23,277
Location
Aotearoa
The level of racism in the comments on that story is horrifying.
 

Devil Ledbetter

Come on you stranger, you legend,
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
9,767
Reaction score
3,936
Location
you martyr and shine.
The topic heading said he was 12 but the news story says 16?

In the story, it said he "attacked a person with a cane." Did he use a cane in the attack, or attack someone who walked with a cane?

Regardless of his age or crime, police have no business meting out corporal punishments. I just find the story details pretty murky.
 

CassandraW

Banned
Flounced
Kind Benefactor
Joined
Feb 18, 2012
Messages
24,012
Reaction score
6,476
Location
.
The topic heading said he was 12 but the news story says 16?

In the story, it said he "attacked a person with a cane." Did he use a cane in the attack, or attack someone who walked with a cane?

Regardless of his age or crime, police have no business meting out corporal punishments. I just find the story details pretty murky.

This pretty much sums up my take at this point. I almost posted this story, but decided to wait for more details first.
 

backslashbaby

~~~~*~~~~
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
12,635
Reaction score
1,603
Location
NC
I think the punches look wrong to do, definitely. But as far as knowing anything more than that, I'm confused, too.

I also don't know for sure that the punches are wrong (though they look it to me). I got punched hard in the back at a concert once by security (a girl was fighting with me, and she was about to go over my shoulder). It was some kind of special move that stopped me immediately. It probably looked awful, but it was a really cool move, actually. It didn't hurt past that first burst that took my breath away.

Could those punches be some kind of real move? I couldn't see what the guy was doing, though, so I'm not sure any moves were necessary. And the cop was suspended. I'm guessing he was probably just out of control, but I'm not positive yet.
 
Last edited:

CassandraW

Banned
Flounced
Kind Benefactor
Joined
Feb 18, 2012
Messages
24,012
Reaction score
6,476
Location
.
I've now read a few more articles saying the kid who was punched was 16 and his companion was 17. A couple of articles say that the kids severely beat and badly injured a 20-year-old guy, using a cane as a weapon.

http://nypost.com/2014/12/19/nypd-suspends-cop-caught-punching-teen-during-arrest/

http://gothamist.com/2014/12/20/nypd_suspends_cop_who_repeatedly_pu.php

If that's the case, than it doesn't look to me like the uniformed officers' actions are necessarily out of line here. It seemed pretty excessive if we are talking about a 12-year-old pushing down another kid in the school yard, but if what we've got is a 16 and 17-year-old who violently assaulted someone, subduing and cuffing them seems reasonable.

However, I still can't see WTF that plainclothes officer thought he was doing. Seems like he wasn't needed to subdue the kids -- he was just indulging in a little punching. And yeah, that's not OK.

I'd still like to hear more. The whole incident just looks bizarre on the tape.
 

Bartholomew

Comic guy
Kind Benefactor
Poetry Book Collaborator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
8,507
Reaction score
1,956
Location
Kansas! Again.
The topic heading said he was 12 but the news story says 16?

In the story, it said he "attacked a person with a cane." Did he use a cane in the attack, or attack someone who walked with a cane?

Regardless of his age or crime, police have no business meting out corporal punishments. I just find the story details pretty murky.

I've now read a few more articles saying the kid who was punched was 16 and his companion was 17. A couple of articles say that the kids severely beat and badly injured a 20-year-old guy, using a cane as a weapon.

http://nypost.com/2014/12/19/nypd-suspends-cop-caught-punching-teen-during-arrest/

http://gothamist.com/2014/12/20/nypd_suspends_cop_who_repeatedly_pu.php

If that's the case, than it doesn't look to me like the uniformed officers' actions are necessarily out of line here. It seemed pretty excessive if we are talking about a 12-year-old pushing down another kid in the school yard, but if what we've got is a 16 and 17-year-old who violently assaulted someone, subduing and cuffing them seems reasonable.

However, I still can't see WTF that plainclothes officer thought he was doing. Seems like he wasn't needed to subdue the kids -- he was just indulging in a little punching. And yeah, that's not OK.

I'd still like to hear more. The whole incident just looks bizarre on the tape.

I was going by the age that the woman said in the video. He could have been 35; there was no reason to strike him.
 

Emilander

Banned
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
447
Reaction score
32
The title of the thread is factually incorrect in just about every possible sense. Well, I suppose "repeatedly" is okay since the cop punched him twice. And I guess "forcibly-punches" might be okay since I presume the cop didn't give the kid a love tap or two. But the kid doesn't appear to suffer any lasting injury; within moments, he's talking shit and playing it up for the cameras, so how "forcibly" could he have been hit?

As for the "handcuffed, restrained 12-year-old" bit, not even close. Of the three uniformed cops attempting to arrest the kid, two have a hold on a arm and the third is clearly seen taking out handcuffs right before the kid starts fighting, which is when the plainclothes cop punches him.

The original link to the video is down, but here's another link.

The title of this thread implies that a small child was beaten mercilessly when in fact a teen was punched twice while he was actively resisting arrest. Those are two entirely different things.
 

Bartholomew

Comic guy
Kind Benefactor
Poetry Book Collaborator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
8,507
Reaction score
1,956
Location
Kansas! Again.
The title of the thread is factually incorrect in just about every possible sense. Well, I suppose "repeatedly" is okay since the cop punched him twice. And I guess "forcibly-punches" might be okay since I presume the cop didn't give the kid a love tap or two. But the kid doesn't appear to suffer any lasting injury; within moments, he's talking shit and playing it up for the cameras, so how "forcibly" could he have been hit?

As for the "handcuffed, restrained 12-year-old" bit, not even close. Of the three uniformed cops attempting to arrest the kid, two have a hold on a arm and the third is clearly seen taking out handcuffs right before the kid starts fighting, which is when the plainclothes cop punches him.

The original link to the video is down, but here's another link.

The title of this thread implies that a small child was beaten mercilessly when in fact a teen was punched twice while he was actively resisting arrest. Those are two entirely different things.

A woman heard speaking in the video says, "This is not a war, this is a twelve year old kid." The child is clearly restrained when the plainclothes officer starts beating him. They're not "lovetaps," no, they're punches. Punching someone repeatedly is called beating someone.

...before the kid starts fighting, which is when the plainclothes cop punches him.

...

he was actively resisting arrest...

Frankly, if that's what you saw, you need your eyes checked.
 
Last edited:

Emilander

Banned
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
447
Reaction score
32
A woman heard speaking in the video says, "This is not a war, this is a twelve year old kid." The child is clearly restrained when the plainclothes officer starts beating him. They're not "lovetaps," no, they're punches. Punching someone repeatedly is called beating someone.
I didn't say they were love taps, I said they were two punches which obviously didn't put the kid into too much distress as he was swearing and arguing with the cops seconds after his "beating".

And who cares what some random woman says? She is clearly wrong as every news report has indicated the kid's age as 16. Perhaps she felt saying he was 12 would make him seem the least dangerous as calling him anything younger would be laughable and calling him a teen would be too close to the truth?

Two punches is a beating? That's a stretch. Sorry, but I just cannot define two of something, anything, as repeatedly. If it's not repeatedly, it's not a beating.


Frankly, if that's what you saw, you need your eyes checked.
And if you missed the cop obviously pull out his handcuffs (at the 5-6 second mark) you should have yours checked.

To be clear, I'm not saying the plainclothes cop should have hit the kid, or that he doesn't deserve to be suspended. My issue was with the hyperbolic thread title which, in my opinion, has nothing to do with what the video shows.
 

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
38,197
Reaction score
4,544
Location
The End of the World
I didn't say they were love taps, I said they were two punches which obviously didn't put the kid into too much distress as he was swearing and arguing with the cops seconds after his "beating".

If someone punched me, I'd be swearing and arguing with them, too, at the very least.
 

Bartholomew

Comic guy
Kind Benefactor
Poetry Book Collaborator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
8,507
Reaction score
1,956
Location
Kansas! Again.
I didn't say they were love taps, I said they were two punches which obviously didn't put the kid into too much distress as he was swearing and arguing with the cops seconds after his "beating".

And who cares what some random woman says? She is clearly wrong as every news report has indicated the kid's age as 16. Perhaps she felt saying he was 12 would make him seem the least dangerous as calling him anything younger would be laughable and calling him a teen would be too close to the truth?

Two punches is a beating? That's a stretch. Sorry, but I just cannot define two of something, anything, as repeatedly. If it's not repeatedly, it's not a beating.

And if you missed the cop obviously pull out his handcuffs (at the 5-6 second mark) you should have yours checked.

To be clear, I'm not saying the plainclothes cop should have hit the kid, or that he doesn't deserve to be suspended. My issue was with the hyperbolic thread title which, in my opinion, has nothing to do with what the video shows.

Your claim of interest in objective, capital T truth is undermined by your desire to emphasize the age of the victim and the location of the handcuffs pre-punching. That the handcuffs were only recently applied does not make the victim less restrained. He was still firmly held to the car, and the handcuffs are either on or in the process of being applied when the punching begins. If you want to correct minor details in the account, that's fine. Why do you seem to be doing at the expense of the victim? Why do it to the diminishment of what happened to him?

A person was handcuffed and beaten. He was not fighting. Those facts are clear as day and need no defense. But recasting it as "only" two punches, and painting the victim as "fighting" is disingenuous to an extent that is far more hyperbolic than a mistake in age or in the exact number of times the victim was punched.

No, you didn't call them lovetaps, but you did invoke the term in a way that absolutely diminishes the idea of what a punch is in the context of this conversation, and you should absolutely expect to be called out on that in a forum where pride themselves on their professional use of words.

The purpose of my rhetoric is to call into question a clear and present abuse of authority.

What was the purpose of yours?
 

Emilander

Banned
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
447
Reaction score
32
Your claim of interest in objective, capital T truth is undermined by your desire to emphasize the age of the victim and the location of the handcuffs pre-punching.
So, let me get this right, my supposed interest in "objective, capital T truth" is suspect because the details I called out are, in fact, not evident in the video you based your hyperbolic thread title on?

That the handcuffs were only recently applied does not make the victim less restrained. He was still firmly held to the car, and the handcuffs are either on or in the process of being applied when the punching begins. If you want to correct minor details in the account, that's fine. Why do you seem to be doing at the expense of the victim? Why do it to the diminishment of what happened to him?
Perhaps fighting was the wrong word. Struggling would be better. The fact that it took 3 uniformed cops to hold him when the other two kids arrested each only had one officer controlling them indicates to me that the kid who was punched was resisting to a far greater level and was not some innocent waif like your title implies.

The victim? The victim who was being arrested for beating the shit out of someone with a cane? Pardon me if I seem unsympathetic.

A person was handcuffed and beaten. He was not fighting. Those facts are clear as day and need no defense. But recasting it as "only" two punches, and painting the victim as "fighting" is disingenuous to an extent that is far more hyperbolic than a mistake in age or in the exact number of times the victim was punched.
Those "facts" are not clear as day.
Bartholomew said:
He was still firmly held to the car, and the handcuffs are either on or in the process of being applied when the punching begins.
So were the handcuffs on or off? Kind of makes a difference, don't you think? And if he wasn't fighting/struggling/resisting, why did he need three cops to hold him against the car? How is stating the clear number of punches disingenuous? Is it because it doesn't conform to your hyperbolic rhetoric?

No, you didn't call them lovetaps, but you did invoke the term in a way that absolutely diminishes the idea of what a punch is in the context of this conversation, and you should absolutely expect to be called out on that in a forum where pride themselves on their professional use of words.
Just like you could have used the word "twice" instead of "repeatedly" which is more accurate and doesn't imply a level of intensity that clearly didn't happen? Or your use of "forcibly"? Did you need to clarify that it wasn't a "playful" punch? Why did you need the redundant "restrained"? If someone is handcuffed, it logically follows that they are restrained. The only reason to include restrained is to be as hyperbolic as possible and make this incident seem worse than it really was.

The purpose of my rhetoric is to call into question a clear and present abuse of authority.

What was the purpose of yours?
Fine, there are plenty of abuses of police power and they should be called out for what they are. However, I don't see this as the egregious abuse of power that your title suggests. There are plenty of examples of police brutality, you don't need to make up examples.

Now as far as this incident is concerned, I don't know if the plainclothes cop should have punched the kid. To me it's clear that the kid is resisting. He has three cops trying to handcuff him. If that doesn't signal his level of resistance, I don't know what will. You can see his head come back away from car right before the cop punches, indicating he's pushing back away from the car. Maybe the cop just wanted to punch him. I can't say for sure.

My point is that there is already way too much heat and intensity involved in police/minority relations (and for good reason) that embellishing this story into something so inflammatory without reason is irresponsible. The cop's actions are questionable at worst, not at all like what is implied by the title of this thread.
 
Last edited:

Bartholomew

Comic guy
Kind Benefactor
Poetry Book Collaborator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
8,507
Reaction score
1,956
Location
Kansas! Again.
Your level of sympathy is irrelevant. How many punches is too many, for you? Do you really feel comfortable giving cops leeway to exact punishment and retribution outside the justice system? I haven't seen video evidence of the alleged cane beating, but even if there was and even if the kid was guilty, the cops shouldn't have been beating him. That cop beating that kid, for absolutely no reason, is visible plain as day.

You call attention to the details that you're cherry picking because you don't want there to be a problem. You don't want there to be a problem so badly that you say:

There are plenty of examples of police brutality, you don't need to make up examples.

Despite video evidence, this didn't happen, according to you. This instance of abuse of power is so insignificant that it didn't happen. That is amazing.
 
Last edited:

Emilander

Banned
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
447
Reaction score
32
Your level of sympathy is irrelevant. How many punches is too many, for you? Do you really feel comfortable giving cops leeway to exact punishment and retribution outside the justice system? I haven't seen video evidence of the alleged cane beating, but even if there was and even if the kid was guilty, the cops shouldn't have been beating him. That cop beating that kid, for absolutely no reason, is visible plain as day.

You call attention to the details that you're cherry picking because you don't want there to be a problem. You don't want there to be a problem so badly that you say:
As I've said before, I don't consider two as consistent with repeatedly. So yes, I don't consider two punches to be a beating. What leeway? I don't know what you saw. That's not true, I do know what you saw. But I saw a kid struggling against three cops get punched twice by a fourth while one cop tried to apply handcuffs. To me, the kid starts struggling more once the handcuffs come out. It's hard to tell what happens after the punches since the camera bounces around so it's impossible to say whether the punching cop backs off on his own or another cop pulls him off, which would go a long way to clearing up whether the cop was just trying to help subdue the kid of if he was just punching the kid for shits and giggles.

And what details am I cherry picking? The factually inaccurate details in the title of the thread? Or is it because I disagree that it's absolutely certain that the cop "beat" that kid "for absolutely no reason"?

Despite video evidence, this didn't happen, according to you. This instance of abuse of power is so insignificant that it didn't happen. That is amazing.
For fucks sake, I didn't say "this didn't happen". I've been calling out the fact that your title implies something that didn't fucking happen. Yes, the cop punched the kid twice, but that sure as shit is not what's implied by the hyperbolic title.

We can discus whether the cop was justified in his actions or not. We can discus the current climate of police/minority relations and how this incident doesn't help things, regardless of whether or not the cop was justified. But trying to create outrage by an overly hyperbolic thread title doesn't help discussion, it kills discussion. And discussion is something desperately needed right now.
 
Last edited: