Bill Cosby: America's Favorite Dad...and Rapist?

Lhowling

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The more horrible truth we need to come to terms with is that Jimmy Page kidnapped a 14 year old girl and kept her in his house until she was legal to avoid getting arrested.

Yeah. Celebrities are filthy beasts. But, we've put them in positions where we believe that their talent must make them virtuous or kindr. At the end of the day, celebrities are people. Monsters, like people, are everywhere.

I read that Malcolm Jamal Warner interview. That was not satirical in any way, shape or form. And, funny, just the other night I was watching a previous episode of American Horror Story: Freak Show. He was a guest star. I wonder if this was released strategically at the same time his appearance aired.
 
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Amadan

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I read that Malcolm Jamal Warner interview. That was not satirical in any way, shape or form. And, funny, just the other night I was watching a previous episode of American Horror Story: Freak Show. He was a guest star. I wonder if this was released strategically at the same time his appearance aired.


Are you saying you think it's a genuine interview? Because I really don't think so.
 

calieber

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Benadryl? I've taken benadryl. It makes you a little drowsy, but does it really function as a date rape drug? I guess if combined with alcohol, maybe?

It's probably different when you know you're taking it. I've taken nighttime cold medicine without noticing the "nighttime" part, and I know that's disorienting.
 

Lhowling

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Are you saying you think it's a genuine interview? Because I really don't think so.

Of course not... I was responding to previous posts that said it was satire. I wasn't implying or stating that it was genuine. If it was satire, then I certainly didn't get that from reading the interview. it read like an actual interview.
 

gingerwoman

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I read that Malcolm Jamal Warner interview. That was not satirical in any way, shape or form. And, funny, just the other night I was watching a previous episode of American Horror Story: Freak Show. He was a guest star. I wonder if this was released strategically at the same time his appearance aired.
I hope Malcolm Jamal sues them.
 

gingerwoman

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Yeah, it's rape. It can be incredibly difficult to prove, especially when you were obviously willingly alone with the person.
People need to learn that anyone female being "willing alone" with anyone male does not mean you're instantly consenting to sex. That's really a bizarre assumption although, yes I get that it's automatically what people think, and really it's crazy.

And teenage girls can be naive that being "willing alone" with a man old enough to be their father will imply to every adult that they were willing to instantly have sex with that man the minute the door closed, since for many teenage girls a man that old is not someone they're thinking of having sex with.

Also in the 80s with no internet some of us teenage girls were a lot more naive than most teens are today.

I don't know what people mean when they say there is no "proof". Rolf Harris was convicted on historic rape charges dating back 18 years in London. People were convicted of rape before DNA evidence even existed. Also Lachelle's police report that the police just took and filed without ever even talking to Cosby is online....

(backslashbaby this post isn't aimed at you at all it's just general commentary, the quote was just a spring off point for me. I know you later said you wish it wasn't this way.)
 

Lhowling

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I don't know what people mean when they say there is no "proof". Rolf Harris was convicted on historic rape charges dating back 18 years in London. People were convicted of rape before DNA evidence even existed. Also Lachelle's police report that the police just took and filed without ever even talking to Cosby is online....

(backslashbaby this post isn't aimed at you at all it's just general commentary, the quote was just a spring off point for me. I know you later said you wish it wasn't this way.)

I think in terms of "proof" it's not so much to show that Bill Cosby is a rapist, but rather enough substantial evidence to convict him. Based on what little I know of Rolf Harris (please feel free to fill in gaps), two of the girls were underaged with one account happening repeatedly over a period of time, which might have prompted police to take immediate and swift action. What's tough about Cosby's case was that his victims were adult acquaintances, romantically linked, and were drugged with alcoholic beverages.

As far as proof goes, it doesn't have to be DNA or anything like that. If the Malcolm Jamal Warner interview was actually true, then that could have been it. If he confided in someone, or if these women told anyone else, then that might count for something. In other words, someone who was not a victim who either saw or heard Cosby say he raped those women might be enough for conviction.

Unfortunately, police reports can be made against a person which prompts an investigation. But getting it to trial is another matter.
 

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Unfortunately, police reports can be made against a person which prompts an investigation. But getting it to trial is another matter.
Yes Lachelle Covington made a police report, but the police just "decided" that in their view it didn't sound like a crime and refused to take it further, and Andrea Constand made a police report and was days away from a trial with 13 witnesses when she took an out of court settlement. So when people say "how come none of them went to the police at the time. That is a myth.

While most of the accusations against Cosby involve women around the age of 19, I believe a couple of them have been from women as young as 15.

Malcolm Jamal Warner has been wronged. They made him look like a guy that would sit on evidence of rape for 24 years. That's just terrible.
 
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Lhowling

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Yes Lachelle Covington made a police report, but the police just "decided" that in their view it didn't sound like a crime and refused to take it further, and Andrea Constand made a police report and was days away from a trial with 13 witnesses when she took an out of court settlement. So when people say "how come none of them went to the police at the time. That is a myth.

While most of the accusation against Cosby involve women around the age of 19, I believe a couple of them have been from women as young as 15.

Malcolm Jamal Warner has been wronged. They made him look like a guy that would sit on evidence of rape for 24 years. That's just terrible.

Oh I didn't know. As far as I read many of them were entertainers or worked within the industry so I just assumed.

And right?!? Thats why I was so pissed when I saw that MJW interview. I couldn't imagine how anyone could let this just happen and not say anything.
 

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I'm seeing news stories that say Cosby has hired numerous private investigators to dig up dirt on the accusers.

Not sure how that will play public relation wise. To me, it's just sleezy.
 

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If it were just one, or even a handful, of accusers, it would probably work. But we're up to what, seventeen or so? I think it would look pretty contrived to "discover" sleazy motives for all of them or to "find" things that make all of them unreliable witnesses.

I doubt he'll be going to jail, but I think it's safe to say his reputation is ruined. If he were young, it might be possible to lay low for a decade or so, until the public forgets (the way it did with Michael Jackson's pedophilia issues). But I doubt he has enough time to do that now.
 

Alessandra Kelley

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There was a pretty devastating story in yesterday's New York Times, "Cosby Team's Strategy: Hush Accusers, Insult Them, Blame the Media," but for some reason I can't get to their site online.

Here was a source I could find:

http://www.newsweek.com/report-bill...estigator-discredit-accusers-295546?piano_d=1

The news arrives the same day as a New York Times story about its probe into the aggressive strategies Cosby’s legal and media team have been employing for more than a decade. That includes attacking the media for broadcasting accusations against the comedian, threatening news outlets with multimillion-dollar lawsuits and “quashing accusations as they emerged while raising questions about the accusers’ character and motives.”

Cosby's lawyers sound like absolute barstids who play dirty hardball.
 

nighttimer

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How else is a legal team that has to protect the beloved reputation of a serial rapist going to operate?

It's a dirty job, but someone is being paid well to do it.

Here's why:

If current reports are to be believed, then Bill Cosby is finally fighting back against the numerous women who have been brave enough to come forward with claims that Cosby drugged and sexually abused or raped them. Sadly, these claims took place too long ago for the comedian to be taken to court over them, but somewhere between 20-30 women have spoken out about their experience and, for the first time in almost 20 years, their voices are being listened to by the public. In response, Cosby has chosen either silence behind an official statement of denial from his legal team or an expression of disappointment in the media for their lack of support. Now, according to the Wrap, Cosby is allegedly hiring private investigators to discredit his accusers.

As always, it’s important to bear in mind that this information originates in a Page Six report and thus should be taken with a grain of salt. However, according to the rumor, Cosby “is paying six-figure fees to private investigators for information that might discredit his alleged victims” and “is implementing a scorched-earth strategy in which anything negative in his accusers’ pasts is fair game.” The Wrap adds to the story by noting it is written by freelance reporter Stacy Brown, who Cosby’s lawyers accused of tricking the comedian into making unwarranted comments about the “black media.”

On the off chance this rumor is true, it would be a depressingly tried and true method of defense in cases like this one. Often when a woman speaks out against their sexual abuser or rapist, people seize upon anything about either the victim or the circumstances of the rape in order to say that the victim wasn’t really raped at all. That phenomenon of victim-blaming or victim-shaming is how we get stories like the case of alleged victim Linda Joy Traitz, whose criminal history was cited as a reason not to take her story seriously. However, I’m not sure how effective this method of discrediting the victims will be for Cosby if this rumor is actually valid.

In the first place, it’s much easier to discredit one person than it is to discredit over 20 women, especially when a handful of those women are documented as having come forward to speak out against him before or are documented as having been willing to testify against him anonymously in the past. None of the victims have anything to really gain from speaking out against him and, again in the case of the women who are speaking out for the second time, they’ve already dealt with the pain of the media attention and subsequent public inattention. Speaking out once is hard enough, but doing it more than once knowing for a fact how easily people can stop caring? That’s hard.

What possible good can a scorched earth attack on the character of his accusers do for Cosby? His reputation is dead. It cannot be resurrected. He will never get his good name back. He will always be seen as the guy who got away with it.

Americans are suckers for redemption stories, comebacks, second acts and witnessing a beloved figure, stumble, fall, rise and return to glory.

That ain't happening for the Cos. No redemption. No comeback. No second act. No glory. Game over. Take your marbles and go home.

Cosby really, really needs to call off his attack dogs, slink off to a dark corner somewhere, STFU and allow the world to just forget about him.

Curtain call, funnyman. No more jokes and nobody's laughing. Clowntime is over.

Just. Go. :gone:
 

Alessandra Kelley

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What possible good can a scorched earth attack on the character of his accusers do for Cosby? His reputation is dead. It cannot be resurrected. He will never get his good name back. He will always be seen as the guy who got away with it.

Here's an ugly thought.

What if the attacks are not to redeem Cosby's reputation but to intimidate and frighten anyone else out there from speaking up about their own victimization?

What if these women are only the tip of a much larger iceberg, one that Cosby's lawyers want to stay silent and unseen?
 

Cyia

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What possible good can a scorched earth attack on the character of his accusers do for Cosby?


It - like many cases of rape - is a power trip. The rapist is supposed to be the one in power. The person raped is supposed to be the weak one, the victim, the loser in a game that person never chose to play.

By speaking up and refusing to be silenced, the people he allegedly attacked are upsetting that balance. They're threatening his perceived power over them.

Go back through the accounts to the woman who began cursing him out as soon as she realized she'd been drugged - he threw her out. (you know, allegedly) When she called his phone number, the one he'd given her, she was shocked that it went to his home phone, and that his wife answered. She didn't bother to pursue charges because she knew he felt secure enough in his power to give her the number his wife would answer.

That's enough to suggest it was a power trip to me.

The second she refused to play along and began fighting back without submitting, even while drugged, and the second she called him on what he'd done - he got rid of her. (insert [allegedly] here).

If he lets it go without challenge, and without dragging out as much dirt as he possibly can, then he will never be able to exert that power again. It's the idea that he's supposed to win. (insert [allegedly] here).


If any of these cases are ever proven (though without a trial I'm not sure that's possible), I'd bet at least one doctoral candidate will get their thesis out of the behavior pattern viewable here.
 

nighttimer

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Here's an ugly thought.

What if the attacks are not to redeem Cosby's reputation but to intimidate and frighten anyone else out there from speaking up about their own victimization?

That's a plausible line of thought, but thus far it doesn't seem to have stemmed the tide of women coming forward. As Cosby's prior victims have found the courage to come forward and be silent no more, it will only encourage others to do the same.

Many a flood started with a leak. If something should come out that isn't past the statue of limitations, well, let's just say it wouldn't take much more to wash Cosby away for good.

Alessandra Kelley said:
What if these women are only the tip of a much larger iceberg, one that Cosby's lawyers want to stay silent and unseen?

The mind reels at the possibilities of what more ugliness might come out about William H. Cosby, but the man is 77 years old. That's a long time to accumulate a whole lot of ugly.
 

nighttimer

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It - like many cases of rape - is a power trip. The rapist is supposed to be the one in power. The person raped is supposed to be the weak one, the victim, the loser in a game that person never chose to play.

By speaking up and refusing to be silenced, the people he allegedly attacked are upsetting that balance. They're threatening his perceived power over them.

Go back through the accounts to the woman who began cursing him out as soon as she realized she'd been drugged - he threw her out. (you know, allegedly) When she called his phone number, the one he'd given her, she was shocked that it went to his home phone, and that his wife answered. She didn't bother to pursue charges because she knew he felt secure enough in his power to give her the number his wife would answer.

That's enough to suggest it was a power trip to me.

The second she refused to play along and began fighting back without submitting, even while drugged, and the second she called him on what he'd done - he got rid of her. (insert [allegedly] here).

If he lets it go without challenge, and without dragging out as much dirt as he possibly can, then he will never be able to exert that power again. It's the idea that he's supposed to win. (insert [allegedly] here).


If any of these cases are ever proven (though without a trial I'm not sure that's possible), I'd bet at least one doctoral candidate will get their thesis out of the behavior pattern viewable here.

If I'm reading and understanding you correctly, Cyia, what you're saying is Cosby is using his money and power to go at these women again as if to say, "I'm Bill Cosby and you're nothing."


My thought--hell, my hope was Cosby might be feeling a sense of shame, perhaps even remorse over his long career as a serial rapist. To accept what you are theorizing, those are the last emotions he is experiencing. If anything Cosby sees himself as the victimized party here.

I don't like buying into an analysis where the subject hasn't actually been examined, but I can't quibble overmuch into your theory, Cyia. On a rudimentary basis, rape as a physical attack and invasion upon a woman is easily grasped. The power aspect of rape as manipulating subjugating, controlling, and dominating a women is far more complex to fully understand.

Scarier too.

As Peter Gabriel put it, "don't like it, but I guess I'm learning."
 

Cyia

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I don't like buying into an analysis where the subject hasn't actually been examined, but I can't quibble overmuch into your theory, Cyia. On a rudimentary basis, rape as a physical attack and invasion upon a woman is easily grasped. The power aspect of rape as manipulating subjugating, controlling, and dominating a women is far more complex to fully understand.

Scarier too.

It's a very scary thought, and I do agree with not analyzing someone who hasn't been examined, which is why I mentioned rape as a power-play in general. It gets a little dicey trying to talk about a specific case in general terms, though.

Sorry if I made it sound like I was diagnosing the man; it wasn't my intention. I only wanted to posit one possible reason behind the sudden shift in behavior, so I used an example tied to him personally rather than a broader idea of behavior.
 

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Honestly, the fact that he did not immediately go forward with lawsuits when the victims started making the accusations was all it took for me to get the worst kind of suspicions. If these were just defamation campaigns, he could have at the drop of a hat gotten together some of the best lawyers out there for dealing with slander charges and already be working on winning a shitton in defamation lawsuits by now. The fact that he did not immediately start doing that was enough to suggest something was up.

Given the nature of the entertainment industry, I do not discount any explanation anyone can come up with as to why all these women are coming forward; I can't discount the possibility that it is all true or that it is overwhelmingly untrue.

But the fact that so many unrelated women felt the need to do this clearly points to Cosby having severely wronged someone repeatedly over the last several decades. I cannot think of any other major entertainer who has ever had this many people come forward and claim he assaulted them like this.
 

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Yeah. Celebrities are filthy beasts. But, we've put them in positions where we believe that their talent must make them virtuous or kindr. At the end of the day, celebrities are people. Monsters, like people, are everywhere.
We need heroes, it has been that way since human civilization started forming. Young boys inevitably look to influential male examples of what it means to be a genuine man, young girls inevitably look towards influential female examples of what it means to be a genuine woman and we all cannot help but look to people with unusual talents as sources of inspiration and models to emulate.

Look at how much coverage and how much of a fanbase Mike Tyson has in spite of being a convicted rapist. Hell, look at some of the entertainers in the past who cultivated enough of an image to let their adoring followers completely ignore their heinousness. Chuck Berry, Bing Crosby, Eric Clapton, John Lennon, Roman Polanski and on and on.