The Basics

alaskamatt17

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
842
Reaction score
92
Location
Anchorage
I would suggest adding Robert J. Sawyer's Terminal Experiment to the immortality subject.
 

cinead

Registered
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
How about a unique combination of some of these existing themes?

I have in mind a series of short stories that combine elements of many of the themes mentioned in this thread. The themes involve, nanotechnology of prehistoric and extraterrestrial origin,longevity,prehistoric genetic engineering of humans by extraterrestrials, psychohistory and secret history. I think that new themes can be developed by a combination of existing themes, a synthesis if you will.
 

cinead

Registered
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
I just found out my idea has already been done

I just became aware that the "universe" I had in mind for my series of short stories has already been done. To about the 4th decimal place. And I am really bummed out about it. It's already been done in a book by Travis Taylor, titled "The Quantum Connection". Even his MC's girlfriend is from Russia, just like in my story.WTF! I swear that I have never even heard of this novel when I started writing my short story about a month and a half ago. Is this some kind of manifestation of the Jungian collective unconscious or what? I have been reading SF since 1968, 30-40 titles a year. I've been reading Analog since 1972. Like myself, Travis Taylor seems to be a major fan of Robert A Heinlein. Maybe that has something to do with it. Go figure.
 
Last edited:

Smiling Ted

Ah-HA!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
2,462
Reaction score
420
Location
The Great Wide Open
I've begun to add links to the stories mentioned, when they can be found legally online. If any link leads to pirated material, inform me and the link will be removed at once.
 

CogitoErgoSum

How I get duck?
Registered
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
48
Reaction score
3
I just became aware that the "universe" I had in mind for my series of short stories has already been done. To about the 4th decimal place. And I am really bummed out about it. It's already been done in a book by Travis Taylor, titled "The Quantum Connection". Even his MC's girlfriend is from Russia, just like in my story.WTF! I swear that I have never even heard of this novel when I started writing my short story about a month and a half ago. Is this some kind of manifestation of the Jungian collective unconscious or what? I have been reading SF since 1968, 30-40 titles a year. I've been reading Analog since 1972. Like myself, Travis Taylor seems to be a major fan of Robert A Heinlein. Maybe that has something to do with it. Go figure.

You know, I'm doing something dangerously similar in two if not three of my projects. Don't you wish people would warn us about this?

But...I found a twist...one that is very difficult to write intelligibly.
 

Koobie

Super Duper Member
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Messages
748
Reaction score
182
Website
tyrovogel.com
I vote for William Gibson's Neuromancer and Philip Dick's Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? for the Cyberpunk category. :D Maybe Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash for virtual worlds, too.
 

Vahana

Registered
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
13
Reaction score
2
Location
Norway
What makes a Novel a best seller!

Hi, I am a guy from Norway, so please understand, this is not my first language. Anyway, I`ll give this a shot. J.R. Rowling believed in her Character when no one else did. I do so in mine too. She is not (in my opinion) a great writer, but she had a great PR company to back her up.
I am a novise in this genre, but I had 18 years of planning my trilogy. I have writte other novels before, but this time I write what I WANT to write, what I love to write. Fantasy. I do believe that I have a new touch to this, because it is based on a dream I had, not any of the films I have seen. Actually, I have never seen a film about Atlantis.
I know Atlantis is not a new invention, but I think my touch is. Anyone remember other trilogies about Atlantis? I know I saw something a few years ago, and thought "da..it", but it was far from what I had in mind.
Harry Potter was far from a new invention, but he made it. It is all about a full hearted belief, a knowing, instead of believing.
 

Kweei

Expert Procrastinator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
1,859
Reaction score
271
Location
New England
Website
www.kltownsend.com
Thanks so much for this! Not only is it good to get a better idea of foundation stories for certain tropes and subgenres, but it's also nice because now I have a better understanding what I write and where my work falls.

What about supernatural-themed stories? I always assume those fall into the urban fantasy/contemporary fantasy/paranormal romance area. Angels, demons, ghosts, etc.: Those are the books I tend to read - and find - in the UF/CF area. I just wanted to know if other genres/books tapped into this as well that I might be missing.
 

Koobie

Super Duper Member
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Messages
748
Reaction score
182
Website
tyrovogel.com
K.L. Townsend, in that case I recommend you check out T.A. Pratt's Marla Mason books (starting from Blood Engines) unless you've done so already. Here's a link: http://www.marlamason.net/
 

Smiling Ted

Ah-HA!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
2,462
Reaction score
420
Location
The Great Wide Open
Thanks so much for this! Not only is it good to get a better idea of foundation stories for certain tropes and subgenres, but it's also nice because now I have a better understanding what I write and where my work falls.

What about supernatural-themed stories? I always assume those fall into the urban fantasy/contemporary fantasy/paranormal romance area. Angels, demons, ghosts, etc.: Those are the books I tend to read - and find - in the UF/CF area. I just wanted to know if other genres/books tapped into this as well that I might be missing.

K.L. - Thanks for the recognition, and we'll give some serious thought to those areas. Let's get some suggestions from the Group Mind, everybody...

Koobie - thanks for the suggestions. I agree about Snowcrash and Neuromancer. (In fact, if you look at the list a little more closely, you'll see those titles were already there.;))

Just a general reminder:

This thread is a research aide dedicated to those works that lay out basic ideas in F/SF. These are the ideas that folks have been using ever since, and with which all writers should be familiar: things like time travel, alternate histories, colony ships, and so on. For discussions of current works, or popular works, or things that you're working on, or just works that you think are great, you're better off starting a new thread, or finding one that's more suitable to what you're trying to do. You'll get a lot more response and help, and this thread will be less confusing.

Best of luck! Keep the suggestions coming!
:welcome:
 
Last edited:

Satori1977

Listening to the Voices In My Head
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
5,975
Reaction score
662
Location
I can see the Rocky Mountains
What a great list! I have never heard of some of these. Adding more books to my tbr pile :)

There are a few I would like to see added. I might have missed it, but I didn't see Piers Anthony on the list. He is one of my faves, and writes both SF and Fantasy. He has several series though, not sure where you would put him. His Xanth series is magical fantasy and has almost every major fantastical creature you know of. His Mode series focuses on multiverses. And his Adept series (my favorite) has magic and fantasy, but also SF as the MC travels between two very different worlds. There is also a little bit of AI in them.

Robert J Sawyers Hominid trilogy would be a good book to include in the Human Evolution part - a different evolution on a parallel Earth.

Also, not a big selection in the UF, CF, PR section. Kim Harrison, Charlaine Harris, Vicki Pettersson, Patricia Briggs, and Kelley Armstrong are much better to represent UF than LKH lately. As for PR, Sherrilyn Kenyon and Christine Feehan are two big authors.
 

Hallen

Mostly annoying
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
971
Reaction score
111
Location
Albany, Oregon, USA
Dystopian/End of the world:
Lucifer's Hammer by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle.

Came before The Stand and might be better (depending on the person, :) )
 

Smiling Ted

Ah-HA!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
2,462
Reaction score
420
Location
The Great Wide Open
What a great list! I have never heard of some of these. Adding more books to my tbr pile :)

There are a few I would like to see added. I might have missed it, but I didn't see Piers Anthony on the list. He is one of my faves, and writes both SF and Fantasy. He has several series though, not sure where you would put him. His Xanth series is magical fantasy and has almost every major fantastical creature you know of. His Mode series focuses on multiverses. And his Adept series (my favorite) has magic and fantasy, but also SF as the MC travels between two very different worlds. There is also a little bit of AI in them.

Robert J Sawyers Hominid trilogy would be a good book to include in the Human Evolution part - a different evolution on a parallel Earth.

Also, not a big selection in the UF, CF, PR section. Kim Harrison, Charlaine Harris, Vicki Pettersson, Patricia Briggs, and Kelley Armstrong are much better to represent UF than LKH lately. As for PR, Sherrilyn Kenyon and Christine Feehan are two big authors.

Hi, Satori - sorry it's taken me so long to get back to your specific suggestions.

I've often enjoyed Piers Anthony - particularly his earlier Xanth books and the first two Incarnations novels - but I don't know if he's a seminal writer. You can be a terrific and/or incredibly popular writer without changing the way people think about a particular topic. That's why Larry Niven is in the "Magic" section, for instance, but JK Rowling is not.

I'll freely admit to not being as much of an expert in CF/UF/PR as others. I chose Laurell Hamilton because she seemed (to me) to be one of the writers who defined the genre for those who came later, like Kim Harrison. However, if a few more AWers post to say that Briggs should be in and Hamilton out, that's what will happen.

I've looked into Robert Sawyer's Hominid series, but perhaps if someone else can make a pitch for it, I'll get a better idea about its impact.
 
Last edited:

Smiling Ted

Ah-HA!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
2,462
Reaction score
420
Location
The Great Wide Open
Dystopian/End of the world:
Lucifer's Hammer by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle.

Came before The Stand and might be better (depending on the person, :) )

Hallen - Lucifer's Hammer has been added to the "Great Examples" section of the list. I can't believe I didn't include it earlier. Thanks!
 

Smiling Ted

Ah-HA!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
2,462
Reaction score
420
Location
The Great Wide Open
Some new material in "Artificial Intelligence," "Enigma Tales," "The Decadent Earth," and "Franchise Government." Also, the great airport popularizer Ira Levin has been added to the list.
 
Last edited:

MurderOfCrows

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Messages
266
Reaction score
21
Location
Utah
I think under 'contemporary' or 'urban' fantasy you really need the works of Charles de Lint -- the Newford Story collections were some of the first to put Fairy in the cityscape and do it well.

He's a lot less 'gritty' then the Anita Blake books, and a lot less rooted in geek culture then the Dresden Files, but they both owe him a lot to their work.

You could also include Terri Windling's 'Borderland' anthologies.
 

Siren of Triton

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
56
Reaction score
3
Location
Boston, MA
I know that Futurama is listed under the "Great Examples" list, but I think its episode "Godfellas" should be under the Religion category: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godfellas

Of course, it isn't the first to address that issue, but it's a fairly original approach and I think it's one of the better ones out there.
 

Smiling Ted

Ah-HA!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
2,462
Reaction score
420
Location
The Great Wide Open
I know that Futurama is listed under the "Great Examples" list, but I think its episode "Godfellas" should be under the Religion category: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godfellas

Of course, it isn't the first to address that issue, but it's a fairly original approach and I think it's one of the better ones out there.

Thanks for the suggestion! Actually, the "Godfellas" episode is a riff on a classic short story by Theodore Sturgeon called "Microcosmic God" - which, thanks to you, I have included in the "Theology" section, along with Isaac Asimov's short story "Flies."
 
Last edited:

Smiling Ted

Ah-HA!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
2,462
Reaction score
420
Location
The Great Wide Open
I think under 'contemporary' or 'urban' fantasy you really need the works of Charles de Lint -- the Newford Story collections were some of the first to put Fairy in the cityscape and do it well.

He's a lot less 'gritty' then the Anita Blake books, and a lot less rooted in geek culture then the Dresden Files, but they both owe him a lot to their work.

You could also include Terri Windling's 'Borderland' anthologies.

MoC, thanks for your suggestions. Do De Lint's Newford Stories have significantly different ideas from "The War for the Oaks," which is earlier and (to me, anyway) more well known?
 

jhmcmullen

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
59
Reaction score
5
Just a note that any links to a Geocities site (such as the one for Branwyn, Daughter of Lyr) are dead since Yahoo closed Geocities.

Though you might be able to find the content in the Geocities site of another country's domain: I managed to retrieve some stuff I had about the Alderson Disk that way. I wouldn't trust the alternate site staying about, though.
 

jhmcmullen

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
59
Reaction score
5
Not a suggestion but ruling some novels out.

Some of Fritz Leiber's stuff--particularly Smoke Ghost and Conjure Wife, or Williamson's Darker Than You Think--are early examples that have a lot in common with what later came to be called urban fantasy, but probably don't get to be Urban Fantasy. Smoke Ghost is straight-out horror, IMHO, and Conjure Wife has--aside from its unfortunately sexist idea--a focus on the normal character instead of the paranormal. The Williamson might count as a precursor, but I don't think it (or James Gunn's The Magicians, much though I love it, or Heinlein's Waldo or Magic, Inc.) have the right attitude for Urban Fantasy as she is now spoke.

I think the works were seminal for their ideas, but the way that UF has moved means that there's too much of the novels that isn't influential.

The distinction between "Paranormal" and "Urban fantasy" is unclear to me in current genres, too: I had a definition but it falls apart under closer examination.

However, the ideas about vampirism in Leiber's story, "The Girl With The Hungry Eyes," were new at the time (1949) and have been echoed in pretty much every psychic vampire story since (Wilson's The Space Vampires not withstanding). The story has also been extensively anthologized, so it has had an effect.
 
Last edited:

Zanthus

Not as crazy as he thinks
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
69
Reaction score
14
Location
South Australia
reading through here it makes me think we chould have a list of sterotype endi , plot divices and the like

a small sheperd boy discovers he is the one true king
And they where adam and eve

thier are others im sure off that are like that i just can thtink of more this is probbly the worng thred however when a novel it is good to know if it is supper clishe like but some of thise things transend sub genres a little or am i worng thier
 

jinkang

Learning
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
253
Reaction score
11
Location
Toronto, Canada
Website
jinkang.livejournal.com
reading through here it makes me think we chould have a list of sterotype endi , plot divices and the like

a small sheperd boy discovers he is the one true king
And they where adam and eve

thier are others im sure off that are like that i just can thtink of more this is probbly the worng thred however when a novel it is good to know if it is supper clishe like but some of thise things transend sub genres a little or am i worng thier

::OFFTOPIC::

tvtropes.org - Just be warned that you may end up spending time you should be writing.

Anyway, as long as you got the Basics down pat, even cliches can work with you: Name of the Wind.

::OFFTOPIC: