How do you show-don't-tell thoughts?

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what?

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Note:

Please regard this as a an exercise in style. Just as Walt Disney drew nudes for recreation, I'm trying to write show-don't-tell where it does not apply. Please don't argue about the usefulness of show-don't-tell, I'm aware that not all novels must be written in the style of Chuck Palahniuk.

I'm also aware that show-don't-tell isn't a law. Not even Chuck Palahniuk always heeds his own advice:

"I know this because Tyler knows this." ~ from the second page of Fight Club.

* * *

Question:

In a famous blog post Chuck Palahniuk advises against the use of "thought-verbs" (such as thinks, knows, and understands). He recommends to "un-pack" the thought or knowledge into the sensory detail that will make the reader think or know what the character thinks or knows.

His recommendation is difficult enough when your characters know things that happen outside of them, e.g. Palahniuks example of the boy knowing that the girl is interested in him from her behavior: all the writer has to do instead of stating that the boy knows is describe the girl's behavior, and the reader will come to the same conclusion as the boy.

But what if you are not writing about thoughts about outside things ("he thought the bus would be late"), but things that go on inside a person such as dreams or the perception of bodily functions.

Let's look at an example. This is the story I want to tell (for the purpose of this exercise; I'm not really writing a novel about chocolate craving):

"It is late, the shops are closed, and I am overwhelmed by a strong craving for chocolate. I try to suppress it, but I can't sleep, so I get up out of bed and walk across town to the gas station to buy chocolate."

Or another example:

"John really loved to escape into his thoughts. Most afternoons he just lay on his bed doing nothing and imagining rich worlds and what he would do in them."

How do you show the craving for chocolate when you write from a first person perspective, without using any words that refer to the craving? How do you show that someone loves to think (instead of doing other things), without refering to those thoughts?
 
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Bufty

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I'm afraid I'm not sure what your problem is.

Chuck is referring to use of the verbs - in their telling capacity to the reader.

Nothing wrong with the first illustration as far as I'm concerned. In the second example you could omit the explanatory first sentence if you wished.

ETA _ Bearing in mind the rest of this thread, I don't find Chuck's instructions or explanations to be the clearest way to learn things at all. If they were clear this thread wouldn't have arisen.
 
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Dennis E. Taylor

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Agree with Bufty. I think your examples were perfectly acceptable.

A lot of the problems people have with these types of advice is thinking that they are laws of physics. I'm struggling with this myself. They're more like guidelines. Even "Show don't tell" isn't hard-and-fast.
 

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Chuck is referring to use of the verbs - ...
My first example contains "craving". Chuck recommends not to use "desires". Now "craving" may possibly be classified as a noun (I'm no grammar expert), but then I'm sure Cuck wouldn't accept "I had a thought" as an acceptable un-packing of "I thought", so "craving" is essentially still a "thought verb", because it still states the thought, instead of providing the sensation that will evoke the same craving in the reader.

My second example contains the verb "imagines" (in the second sentence), which is clearly a thought verb.
 
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EvolvingK

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Thirding that your suggestions are just fine. I think where it's different is... hm...

How could she survive this, she wondered? The bad guys were roaring up the road, and she knew that once they got here, they were going to gut her. She knew she either had to hide, or she had to fight. She thought through her options, then planted her feet. She decided she would fight.

Not horrible for something I made up just this second, but compare it to this:

How could she survive this. She rubbed her soaked palms against the thighs of her jeans and fought to steady her breathing. The headlights of the bad guys' motorcycles were coming closer. When they got to her, it was over. They'd gut her where she stood. She had to fight, or she had to run, and there was no way to do both. Her heart slammed in her chest like a drum as she planted her feet. No matter how evil they were, she had to fight. She couldn't run.

The second is more grounded in the character's head. By using verbs like "thought" "imagined" "dreamed" you're pulling your reader back an extra layer. That is okay, if that's what you want to do, but the current...dare I say fashion?...is to be as close inside your character's head as it's possible to get.
 

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A lot of the problems people have with these types of advice is thinking that they are laws of physics.
I don't think that. I have no problem with writing "John thought" in one of my novels. I'm just trying to understand where and how it is possible to apply Cuck's advice. Maybe I'm thinking about my examples in the wrong way. Maybe Chuck himself would easily find a way to avoid "craving" – and maybe he wouldn't. Just trying to learn something here.
 
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This is in the same vein as filtering. She saw the bird land on the wire. He felt the need to explain himself. She heard the soft pad of stealthy feet.

Thoughts don't need the use of filtering verbs. He thought, I wonder if she likes me.

A lot of inner dialogue can be handled with close narrative rather than dialogue. The exact words for the specific thoughts are often italicized and thus don't need the added filtering.
 

what?

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Thirding that your suggestions are just fine.
Now do the same thing with my examples. Write in first person, not third, so you have no outside view of your protagonist, and write about something that goes on inside the person, such as:

"Last night she dreamed of her dead mother."

Do that without "dreams"!
 

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"Her dead mother haunted those precious moments of REM she caught between midnight and her alarm blaring at 5 a.m."

But sometimes it makes more sense to just say, "Last night, she dreamed of her dead mother."
 

what?

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Are you trying to learn this to avoid writing your story? Cos that's just procastination.
Huh? This is not about writing my story, this is about learning to write. Just like art students are encouraged to copy master paintings, or do warm up scribbles, why shouldn't a writer try to understand the techniques of master writers or do a little style exercise?
 

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Show don't tell is an obsession of Saturday morning creative writing classes. Don't get hung up on it as 99.9999% of readers have never even heard of the concept and care even less as long as the story grips them
 

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If you want to avoid saying I have a craving, it's easy enough.

The shops are closed, but I'll die if I don't get some chocolate.


For the second example, I would try to get into John's head instead of narrating what he's doing. Write a scene where someone calls him and tries to get him to go somewhere. He refuses, lies back down, and then you describe the rich fantasy world he drifts into. Then the reader can see both how much he loves his fantasy world (it's more important to him than hanging out with his friends), and why (presumably, his fantasy world has all kinds of stuff his real life lacks).
 

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Now do the same thing with my examples. Write in first person, not third, so you have no outside view of your protagonist, and write about something that goes on inside the person, such as:

"Last night she dreamed of her dead mother."

Do that without "dreams"!

No, considering you've given no context for that sentence. Also, it is a bad bbad example of a "let's see if we can remove the the thought verb exercise." In that sentenced, "dreamed" is absolutely appropriate.
 

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Show don't tell is an obsession of Saturday morning creative writing classes. Don't get hung up on it as 99.9999% of readers have never even heard of the concept and care even less as long as the story grips them
See the note to my opening post. Thank you.
 

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If you want to avoid saying I have a craving, it's easy enough.

The shops are closed, but I'll die if I don't get some chocolate.


For the second example, I would try to get into John's head instead of narrating what he's doing. Write a scene where someone calls him and tries to get him to go somewhere. He refuses, lies back down, and then you describe the rich fantasy world he drifts into. Then the reader can see both how much he loves his fantasy world (it's more important to him than hanging out with his friends), and why (presumably, his fantasy world has all kinds of stuff his real life lacks).
Cool! Those are really great solutions. Thank you :)
 

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Note:

Please regard this as a an exercise in style. Just as Walt Disney drew nudes for recreation, I'm trying to write show-don't-tell where it does not apply. Please don't argue about the usefulness of show-don't-tell, I'm aware that not all novels must be written in the style of Chuck Palahniuk. Thank you.

The best way to learn how to do anything as an exercise in style is to practice. Take your own examples and think of ways to do just what you're asking. Want more practice? Take a book you like (that wasn't written by Chuck) and look for examples of the telling you're interested in and convert them into the showing you're interested in. If Chuck's examples aren't helping you, why do you think ours would?
 

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Now do the same thing with my examples. Write in first person, not third, so you have no outside view of your protagonist, and write about something that goes on inside the person, such as:

"Last night she dreamed of her dead mother."

Do that without "dreams"!

How about:

I woke in a cold sweat, the sheets tangled about my legs. God, again. Why were the nightmares always about her cancer?
 

what?

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How about:

I woke in a cold sweat, the sheets tangled about my legs. God, again. Why were the nightmares always about her cancer?
Nice. Maybe:

"I woke in a cold sweat, the sheets tangled about my legs like the shroud over my dead mother. ..."

To make it clear that the mother isn't still alive.
 

Bufty

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:Shrug: Now you're explaining to folk trying to explain it to you.
 
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MakanJuu

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Use very specific wording.

But, generally, I guess it's ok to show emotions, thoughts & dreams, but not early on where your main goal is drawing a person into the story.

Personally, I more so enjoy looking at characters from that kind of perspective because I want to know the character before I decide whether or not I care what's happening to them. Hence that, I still value Terry Goodkind's work on a higher level personally than George R. R. Martin, even though Martin is clearly the better writer in most every aspect. But, most people would rather it was the other way around.

Seemingly, no matter where the level of your writing is, or how you choose to organize or portray your story, you'll generally still find an audience somewhere as long as your story is entertaining.
 
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what?

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:Shrug: Now you're explaining to folk trying to explain it to you.
In school Joan asks the teacher how something works. The teacher explains. Joan understands. Excitedly she improves the teachers example. Instead of praising his student for correctly and creatively applying what she learned, he says: "Now you're explaining to folk trying to explain it to you."
 

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You need to tell people that it's an exercise and you want to show off what you know. And that's fair enough. But don't make the first post sound like you want advice and then get all huffy when you get it.

That's why some of us are annoyed with you.
 

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In school Joan asks the teacher how something works. The teacher explains. Joan understands. Excitedly she improves the teachers example. Instead of praising his student for correctly and creatively applying what she learned, he says: "Now you're explaining to folk trying to explain it to you."

Here's a great example for you to practice on. I see several incidents of telling and "thought words." ;)

But it's likely your excitement would come across better to the participants of the thread if you weren't always insisting that people answer a certain way, not just in this thread, not just in your threads, but even in threads posted by others. In this way, you've shown us that anything that appears to be you correcting the responder is a complaint, not an acceptance. Telling us that instead you are like a student, excited to contribute to a teacher's example, does not automatically change that perception. And note your use of "improves" the teacher's example, as opposed to something like "contributes to." "Improves" shows an arrogance of knowing better, rather than an air of learning. Since this is a thread about choosing your words carefully and showing vs. telling, my challenge to you is to show, rather than tell us, that you're appreciative of any help you're given, show that you're learning from these encounters, and consider each word you're posting and how it represents both yourself and what you want from the thread.

Also, there's a whole forum for writing exercises. If you post in Novels, people will probably assume you're posting because of an issue with your novels and your writing. Thus the assumptions in this thread. If you would like to make this a true Writing Exercise thread, I will happily port it into the proper forum.
 

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Nice. Maybe:

"I woke in a cold sweat, the sheets tangled about my legs like the shroud over my dead mother. ..."

To make it clear that the mother isn't still alive.
Shrouds are generally draped neatly over a dead person, not tangled around their twisted limbs. This line is also really cheesy. It'd be easy to solidify the "she's dead" hunch in the hypothetical line or two following the given example of nightmares about cancer. No need for melodrama, IMO. I wouldn't call this an "improvement."
 

what?

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You need to tell people that it's an exercise and you want to show off what you know.
I don't want to show off what I know. When I asked this question I did not know how to do it. But the example made me understand, and I thought that I could make it even better. What's the problem with that? I really don't understand why a person asking a question cannot contribute to the answer, once he or she has a spark of insight and has something to give to the community.
 
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