Word Count

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tfdswift

Is there as formula for calculating the number of words in a manuscript? If so, what is it?
 

Stephenie Hovland

Re: One more quick question....

This question has been addressed somewhere in the novels thread. Try looking through it or asking your question there.
 

maestrowork

Re: One more quick question....

250 words per typed page (Courier 12pt, double spaced). Multiply by the number of pages, that's your word count.
 

HapiSofi

Re: One more quick question....

Formally, as I learned it:

Count ten representative lines, including spaces and punctuation. Add the counts, divide by ten. That's your average characters per line.

Count the lines per page. Count the lines on pages that begin new chapters. Multiply the lines per page by the total number of pages, then adjust that figure for chapter starts. Multiply your adjusted line count by your average characters per line.

You now have a total character count for the manuscript. Take the result and divide it by six. That's your word count. This method works with any typeface, any margins, and any paper size.

If you're producing complex text full of subheads, excerpts, footnotes, and the like, there are more wrinkles in the process; but I won't go into that now.
 

Editrx

Re: One more quick question....

Publishers will kiss you if you use the standard formula that they use for calculating word count.

Hapi's is one way, if you have only hard copy (printed mss. pages).

Better way is this: Have your word processor count the number of CHARACTERS plus SPACES. (Do not use Word or WordPerfect's word count; use their character+spaces count.) Write this number down. Divide it by 6. That is the word count used by all the big publishers in their production department.

So, again:
number of characters + spaces = "x"
"x" / 6 = word count

If you did it for me, for my production dept., I'd probably send you chocolate. I've only gotten one of my authors to do this correctly, and he is worth his weight in truffles.
 

tfdswift

Re: One more quick question....

How do you get the processor to count the number of characters and spaces?
 

Editrx

Re: One more quick question....

Almost every word processing program I know (Word, WordPerfect, WordStar, heck, even Xywrite) has the ability to count characters and spaces. It's often under the pull-down menu "tools."

If you mean "Why did you say 'word processor' when you meant 'word-processing program'?" my only answer is a whap with the salmon. The terms have been used interchangeably since the hardware "word processors" disappeared from the market a good twenty years ago. Cute catch, though, if that's indeed what you meant by the question.

Plus it's shorter to type. I'm encumbered by a wrist immobilizer and a freshly damaged radial nerve -- long story. Anything that's shorter to type is a Good Thing for me right now.
 

HConn

Re: One more quick question....

My version of Word won't count both characters and spaces.

But it identifies a "word" as a bunch of characters with spaces around it.

I run the word count program and add together the "character count" and the "word count" since each word is basically defined as the space after it. If you want to be super-accurate, you then subtract the line count, since there's technically no space after the last word in a line.

Divide the resulting number by six.

If you're not sure whether your word counter will count spaces or not, just type

1(space bar)2(space bar)3(space bar)4(space bar)5(space bar)6(space bar)7(space bar)8(space bar)9(space bar)

Except simply hit the space bar once instead of typing out the words "(space bar)". Then highlight the text and word count it.

My program said I had 9 words and 9 characters.

Incidentally, this discussion prompted me to run a word count on my current WIP, which is almost finished. It's nearly 13K short of where I thought it was. I knew it would a short book, but damn.
 

Editrx

Re: One more quick question....

What version of Word are you using? Are you sure it can't count spaces?

Even as far back as Word 6 (the version before Office 95), it counted (1) characters, (2) spaces, (3) "words." (Which is a weird algorithm only the makers of Word seem to understand -- it's not consistent; that's why publishing production departments don't use it & ignore the "word count" provided by authors, knowing they've used inconsistent means. We instead use the method I've detailed. Done it for a long, long time, for a number of publishers.)

Later versions of Word (97/ver.7, 98/ver.8, Word 2000, and Word for XP) all count (1) characters, (2) spaces, (3) characters with spaces, and (4) "words." I have all of these versions, I might add.

Therefore, every version of Word since ver.6 can count characters and spaces, which if you add together and divide by 6, you get a "publishers' standard word count."
 

HConn

Re: One more quick question....

Editrx, I've been using Word 6.0 for nine years. It doesn't count spaces, I'm afraid.

I don't know about later versions.
 

Editrx

Re: One more quick question....

Oh, I add this as to why word counts are meaningless unless they're characters+spaces/6.

This sentence is created using different words of differing lengths. If you count the words themselves, you get one number: if you counted up the actual characters (including spaces), you'll get an entirely different number. See where I'm going? Word count, as defined by "a bunch of characters surrounded by spaces" could be the words "a thin ox" (three words) or "a delicious coherency" (also three words).

And before anyone thinks of this ... By and large, trying to say "the short words will cancel out the long words in a manuscript" is a fallacy; it doesn't work that way (oh, I'm sure someone could do it, by working very hard and counting each character, trying to literally balance all the characters to be even -- but the book would probably suck).

This is why publishing production depts. decided long ago that "a word" would be six characters, period. That way you can tell me you have a 120,000-word book, and I'll know exactly how many typeset pages it will be. More or less (mileage varies depending on paragraph length, too, because of indents in paragraphs, but I diverge from our original discussion, and page count estimates to create layout estimates are boring to the non-typesetters among us -- which is just about everyone).

Now, I'll give the huge caveat to all of this:

Until your book is accepted by the publisher no one cares. Giving them a ballpark word count is good enough for everyone -- really. I would not lie to you. After your book is accepted, on the schedule, etc., someone (like me) will ask for a file of the book and do the math. That's why we get paid the big bucks. (And if you believe that last sentence, I have a bridge to sell you.) :)

But someone asked the question, and another person answered, saying this is how it's usually done in-house. And indeed that answer was right, if all you have is hardcopy to use. If you have a file, another technique is used altogether. At least it is nowadays. I was being overly helpful, probably to the detriment of some poor authors' brains, who only need to know two things:

1. Write as well as you can.
2. Finish the book.

(Note that this second piece of wisdom is extremely important and sounds extraneous, but you wouldn't believe how many people never finish writing and how hard it is to finish an entire book.)

P.S. Yes, Word 6 does indeed count characters. I use it all the time, as I rather dislike Word 7 and above. I'm on the Mac tonight -- if you remind me by message, I will post a note tomorrow from the PC, giving you explicit directions on how it does so. Because my brain is frozen in pain from my wrist, I cannot for the life of me remember how the screen in the Word Count submenu looks. Embarrassing, but true. But I do assure you it's there -- until I started using the Mac more, I used it on the PC every day for the last almost-decade (like you!).
 

HConn

Re: One more quick question....

Editrx, if you can show me how to do it, I'd be grateful. Near as I can tell from looking at the Word Count help file and using the command itself, it doesn't happen.

In fact, I just ran a test and it didn't count them.

I'm using Word 6.0c (on a PC). If there's something I'm missing, I'd be glad to hear about it.

Sorry to hear about your pain. Be sure to ice it.
 

Editrx

Re: One more quick question....

Aye-aye, on both counts. ;)

(The wrist/hand is a botched job by an ortho to inject cortesone into the tendons affected by de Quervain's tenosynovitis [which is a delightful term I got to learn how to spell these last weeks]. He instead injected the radial nerve. I would say, "The nerve of the fellow!" but he doesn't deserve a good pun.)

I will post in the AM if you remind me. Drop a note in my box here and I'll do it as soon as I get in front of the PC. And regain my brain.
 

vstrauss

Re: One more quick question....

Editrx, I could kiss you. By your method, my WIP is between 400 and 1,000 words shorter per chapter than I thought. This is good news for someone fearing she's going to be way over her allowed word count!

- Victoria
 

tfdswift

Re: One more quick question....

Thanks,

I got it figured out.:thumbs

Couldn't have done it without your help!!:hug

~~Tammy
 

FM St George

Re: One more quick question....

*looks at number after doing recalculations*

oh, now I'm depressed...

:p
 

Editrx

Re: counting spaces in Word 6 (and 7)

Just wrote to HConn to let him know the trick for counting characters + spaces in Word 6 (and 7). (These are the versions that are otherwise known as Word 6, and Word for Office 95.)

[begin production weenie geekspeak]

Choose Tools, then Word Count from the drop-down menu at the top of the Word screen.

Write down the following numbers:
<ul shape="square">
<li>Characters</li>
<li>Words</li>
</ul>
Add these two numbers together. This gives you a number that equals All Characters (characters plus spaces).

How this works: All "words" in Word are strings of characters with a space following. That means if you take the number representing "words," you now have the number of spaces that follow each word.

(Note: As we know, "words" in Word are a string of characters surrounded by spaces. This includes anything surrounded by spaces, including periods, if you make your ellipses by typing space-period-space-period-space-period-space. Caveat emptor, so to speak, with what you count as a "word." Word will count an ellipsis "mark" [the ascii character] as one word, as it will typing period-period-period-space. Try to be consistent, though.)

[/production weenie geekspeak]
 

veingloree

Re: counting spaces in Word 6 (and 7)

if you use a perpage rather than a per line method, keep in mind the US paper is a different size from UK lettersize paper.
 

Julie Worth

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Editrx said:
Publishers will kiss you if you use the standard formula that they use for calculating word count.

Hapi's is one way, if you have only hard copy (printed mss. pages).

Better way is this: Have your word processor count the number of CHARACTERS plus SPACES. (Do not use Word or WordPerfect's word count; use their character+spaces count.) Write this number down. Divide it by 6. That is the word count used by all the big publishers in their production department.

So, again:
number of characters + spaces = "x"
"x" / 6 = word count

If you did it for me, for my production dept., I'd probably send you chocolate. I've only gotten one of my authors to do this correctly, and he is worth his weight in truffles.

Here's a person who appears to be working at a publisher, and she's claiming it's X/6 instead of pages x 250. Is there no truth?!
 

scribbler1382

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I think the key phrase there is "one of my authors". The pagesx250 is a generality. I believe Jim always qualifies this by saying "but if the publisher wants something different, do that."
 

Julie Worth

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scribbler1382 said:
I think the key phrase there is "one of my authors". The pagesx250 is a generality. I believe Jim always qualifies this by saying "but if the publisher wants something different, do that."

Nay. The key is "That is the word count used by all the big publishers in their production department."

Shocking!
 
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