I'm the opposite. I pants, but can't write down my ideas fast enough. So I start writing an outline so I don't forget.
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Can pantsers make extremelly ellaborated and complex stories?
- Thread starter Skyes
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I'm the opposite. I pants, but can't write down my ideas fast enough. So I start writing an outline so I don't forget.
we are all pantsers in the end
I'm a plotter. Yes, I have organization, notes, and a spreadsheet. But you know? After a while the story acquires a life of its own. Pretty soon the novel is driving the outline instead of the reverse. Near the end, the outline gets thrown away. Way too much work to maintain it.
I'm a plotter. Yes, I have organization, notes, and a spreadsheet. But you know? After a while the story acquires a life of its own. Pretty soon the novel is driving the outline instead of the reverse. Near the end, the outline gets thrown away. Way too much work to maintain it.
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Sometimes my story lines are so elaborate and complex I didn't even seeing it coming until my fingers typed it out. So yes certainly we can. 
The only difference I see between those who write with an outline (which I do) and those who don't is the clerical intensity of the story discovery process. As others have mentioned, no matter which method is used, the story has to be created and transferred from the head to the paper or typed into a file. That process can be done using an outline, or rough draft prose, or some combination.
I outline because I can get the story concept out of my head and onto the screen faster with less typing. Then I can rearrange it, add to it, and generally flesh it out into a rough draft with a lot less typing than would be involved if I did it as a rough draft to start with.
The outline is handy short hand form of the story. A convenience. But sooner or later it's time to write the story.
I'm not a slave to the outline. I had the story take a major change of direction in chapter three. It just happened. It was a surprise to me, but I liked the change. It made a better story but it trashed the rest of the outline. I put the rest of the outline into a different file for the next story in the series and put together an outline to finish the new story.
Worked just fine.
Fitch
I outline because I can get the story concept out of my head and onto the screen faster with less typing. Then I can rearrange it, add to it, and generally flesh it out into a rough draft with a lot less typing than would be involved if I did it as a rough draft to start with.
The outline is handy short hand form of the story. A convenience. But sooner or later it's time to write the story.
I'm not a slave to the outline. I had the story take a major change of direction in chapter three. It just happened. It was a surprise to me, but I liked the change. It made a better story but it trashed the rest of the outline. I put the rest of the outline into a different file for the next story in the series and put together an outline to finish the new story.
Worked just fine.
Fitch
I think I write complex novels, and I've never outlined. What I do, is I let my subconscious take over and every now and again my imagination will *pop* with a terrific plot twist, that sends the story in a direction I never considered before.
Just pointing out that there is a third alternative & that is to write by only looking back at what has happened so far. If you eliminate anything ahead of 'now' from how you think about the story, you eliminate the possibility of making a plan. And from everything I've heard, people who use this approach end up with a submit-ready story at the end, maybe they'd need to tweak the language a bit. So no rough draft, no outline.
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I would consider myself to be someone who mostly wings it. I have a good idea of where my story begins and ends, but I've changed characters (rewriting every scene with them in it) because I discovered who they really were as I wrote their storyline. I'm still on the first book of what I hope is a series of books, so my style might need to change once I've got one behind me. Still, I'd like to think I'll still make discoveries in the process that wont hurt continuity.
I don't think I could ever write like that (not completely at least). I like to have some idea of where the story's going, even if it's vague. That's just the way my brain works. I always tend to look ahead.
There are more than a few of us who do exactly that - if it doesn't make sense for the story as is, it doesn't go in. And believe me, it saves a lot of wear and tear on the brain cells afterwards.
They do too. They may wait till they start the next sentence, but at that point they have to decide what to write. When they do that, they are looking ahead, whether they admit it or not.
Fitch
Sigh. I guess it will fall on deaf ears, but I'd like to point out the folly of thinking one can know what goes on in another person's mind...
You can accept you do not what goes on in another's head and you don't understand it without outright dismissing it.
There are times a story takes on a life of its own and for me that is more like meditating than writing. It happens in my subconscious mind and the only conscious part is what my fingers are doing on the keyboard.
I think it all depends on how your mind works. Some people need to plan everything and write it down before they write the story. Some people just make it up as they go- sort of.
I fall into the latter category. To me plotting is a waist of time that could be better spent writing the story. I tried plotting once and the story came out dry, dull and predictable- it had no life. That's not to say all plotters write dull predictable stories- that only means when I plot, thats how it comes out because that's how my mind works.
I like to discover the story as i write. sometimes I will sit and stare at the screen for hours plotting in my head before I write one word, but once I start writing what comes out is never what I planned in my head. it's usually better.
I have to write this way.
I fall into the latter category. To me plotting is a waist of time that could be better spent writing the story. I tried plotting once and the story came out dry, dull and predictable- it had no life. That's not to say all plotters write dull predictable stories- that only means when I plot, thats how it comes out because that's how my mind works.
I like to discover the story as i write. sometimes I will sit and stare at the screen for hours plotting in my head before I write one word, but once I start writing what comes out is never what I planned in my head. it's usually better.
I have to write this way.
I didn't read the whole thread through, and probably someone else has already mentioned it but George R.R. Martin is a pantser. There is no question that his stories are complex!
Which has nothing to do with outlining/pantsing
Considering the next sentence is not outlining. It is writing.
Which is what we all do (I assume as we are all on a writer's site..)
"looking ahead" is not the same as "planning ahead". I look ahead when I ride my motorbike. I don't plan my journey. *
Look =/= plan
ETA I accept that some of this is psychological -- you can try and lead me to water, I may be too stubborn to drink it. My brain rebels when told it must do something. But....
* Can't tell you the amount of the country I have seen by seeing a side road and going, ooh, I've not been down there before, I wonder where it goes...
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