So what percentage of Amazon/Goodreads reviews of indie fiction are fake?

Samsonet said:

In general, you can usually tell if reviews are fake if a) they're all five-stars, or b) they're mostly five stars, but there's one or two reviews that are one-star. .

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This is not true. I know a lot of books that have genuine all-or-mostly five star reviews. For instance, the last book I read, This Fragile Life, has 32 5 star and only one 2 star. And I guarantee they are all genuine. (Not a SP book, but that shouldn't make a difference.)

aruna said:

This is not true. I know a lot of books that have genuine all-or-mostly five star reviews. For instance, the last book I read, This Fragile Life, has 32 5 star and only one 2 star. And I guarantee they are all genuine. (Not a SP book, but that shouldn't make a difference.)

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But it's got several four- and three-stars; people had varied opinions of it. I'm talking about those books where the reviews are all fives, except for that one that's wondering if he read the same book as all the others. (That usually happens with books that have fewer reviews, though, so it'd be easy for someone to judge each review individually.) I'm sorry for not being more clear earlier.

All of them.

None of them.

All you can do is write the best story you can write.

Filigree said:

I've seen a bunch of vanity-published authors who leave reviews of their own work. Some of which Amazon hasn't taken down. I never report them because they are so obvious they're funny.

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By the looks of it Amazon doesn’t stop selling counterfeit products a whole year after serial number concerns have been pointed out by reviewers.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005WF9OHI/?tag=absowrit-20

JournoWriter said:

Bolero: Reviews can be left for reasons other than a book's writing quality. I once left negative reviews for a series of books I enjoyed because the ebooks were clearly an unedited optical scan & dump of the print editions, with typos and awful formatting on nearly every page. Those are also valid types of reviews.

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I agree that reviews about the quality of the product are definitely valid, though because of that, I think it's misguided to treat Amazon reviews like book critiques. They can be, but there are also reasons to give a book a poor rating that don't have anything to do with the book's content, so looking at Amazon reviews isn't analogous to reading a review in a venue that isn't actually a store.

Though, one problem with quality and service-related reviews is that I believe they can become outdated if the product is altered/updated. I've seen books and other products that had some horrible reviews about the quality, but they were over a year old, which made me wonder if they were still accurate. I also recall looking at a cat toy on Amazon that had horrible reviews--people were getting toys that were made out of dangerous materials. However, it seemed like it was a problem with Amazon getting the product from multiple sellers, and not all of them were providing the exact same product. So were the reviews accurate for whichever seller was currently providing the product? Who knows.

Bolero said:

I still disagree with reviews that relate to Amazon's service, rather than the quality of the product, especially if that is accompanied by a low star rating. In part this is a problem of the way Amazon has configured their website - for third party sellers, there are lots of options for commenting on the speed of delivery, the quality of the packing etc. For Amazon itself there isn't. So people use the product review to comment on Amazon's service and some products are given an unfair low rating as the comment is all about Amazon itself.

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I agree. Also, I hate it when people use the reviews to complain about an independent seller who sold them a used copy of the book that was in poor condition, or who never delivered the item. There are other ways to complain about independent sellers and review them, and reviewing them on the main product page is of no help to anyone (especially since that seller may not even be selling that particular book anymore, but may be selling other books).

Samsonet said:

I agree. Also, I hate it when people use the reviews to complain about an independent seller who sold them a used copy of the book that was in poor condition, or who never delivered the item. There are other ways to complain about independent sellers and review them, and reviewing them on the main product page is of no help to anyone (especially since that seller may not even be selling that particular book anymore, but may be selling other books).

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Quite. I once received a used book described as "like new" in a deplorable condition, dog-eared and dirty. Each independent seller has a "bookshop" on Amazon where you can leave reviews, so I gave a bad review there and wrote the seller, actually several months after I received the book. He apologized, asked me to take the review down, promised to deal with the people who had shipped the book, and refunded the price.
I did take the review down.

When an author pitches me their SP book for a review, I always look at other reviews. I don't try to figure out if they're fake, but I do disregard those that contain vague and generic praise. If I find a great deal of those, I sometimes do become suspicious. In my experience, when someone takes the time to read a whole book, they generally have more to say than "It was a delightful read" or "Pitch perfect, incisive and fascinating." Especially with novels: When readers get involved in them, they're more likely to fixate on specific aspects they liked and didn't.

This is one reason I don't pay attention to those paid Kirkus reviews. They tend to be pretty bland and generic (I'm sure there are exceptions). It makes me sad, because authors present them to me like they're a huge deal ("Kirkus raved about my book!"), and, knowing how they work, I don't really buy it.

I count Kirkus Reviews as fake. They charge a substantial amount to review your work, and then they claim to give people the option to not have the review posted if they don't like it. That sounds like a recipe for a scam. They charge up front for a review, and then have plausible deniability if people point out they don't have many less than X stars.

Jamesaritchie said:

A lot of them are fake, but who cares?

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I do.

I'd trust Amazon more if reviews were accepted only from verified purchasers using their real names. I acknowledge freely that this would be unreasonable as an expectation, but it's still why I care about fake reviews.

DancingMaenid said:

I agree that reviews about the quality of the product are definitely valid, though because of that, I think it's misguided to treat Amazon reviews like book critiques. They can be, but there are also reasons to give a book a poor rating that don't have anything to do with the book's content, so looking at Amazon reviews isn't analogous to reading a review in a venue that isn't actually a store.

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Hey, everyone - if you see an Amazon review like that, or my own personal bete noire, a review that simply complains about the pricing or something, report it using the button provided? Takes two seconds. This stuff hurts authors, because reviews persist across time and across editions.

Amazon won't always DO anything about it (especially if it doesn't suit their interests) but it's as much as we can do.

alexaherself said:

I do.

I'd trust Amazon more if reviews were accepted only from verified purchasers using their real names. I acknowledge freely that this would be unreasonable as an expectation, but it's still why I care about fake reviews.

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They don't have to use their real names imo; what matters is their reputation/history. I value reviews by Top Reviewers, even if they are using a nickname, more than Real Name reviewers who just write a few random reviews here and there and don't have any reputation.

There are a couple of indicators of reputation: Top 500, 100, 50 etc; Hall of Fame; Community Forum '04. These badges show that the reviewers have collected a horde of favourable votes over time; in general, you can assume they write good and fair and in-depth reviews (with the exception of Harriet Klausner, who loves every book she reads).

I used to be a member of the original Amazon Reviewer forum; I remember well when invites went out for the Community Forum in '04 and how excited people were! These people take reviewing as a serious hobby, and discuss it as passionately as we do writing. And I'm glad I've managed to garner a few of those reviewers. They mean something; I'd rather have 10 of those reviewing my book than a 100 Real Name reviewers with no history.


Here's the page with Top Reviewer lists.

I think a lot of the reviews on Amazon are fake. It bothers me greatly. I have read samples that were just awful before. Then I went to the reviews and saw oodles of 4-5 star ratings. They tended to repeat themselves over and over: 'couldn't put it down!' or 'Author Name has done it again!' or 'another bestseller by Author Name' or 'you will be on the edge of your seat until the very end' or 'keeps you on your toes!'

Then you read the 1-2 star reviews and almost all of them mention the terrible editing, the puzzlement of the reviewer that there are so many highly rated reviews in contrast to their own, their bewilderment about whether those people read the same book, and then there are the people who actually point out the errors (with page number) involving word usage, spelling, and the problems with the plot.

Then you read the reviews by customers who felt like they were tricked into buying the book by all the 4-5 star reviews.

Yes, it bothers me.

Glowing, over the top 5 star reviews has become the norm for a lot of self-pubbed books, and it makes me completely distrust any 5 star reviews I see. I typically start with the one and two star reviews--if I see the bewilderment at the 5 stars that others here have spoken of, I steer clear of the book. It definitely feels like the 1-4 star reviews are the only ones that tell you anything useful.

Also, what is the deal on goodreads with reviewers posting gifs all over their reviews? It looks tacky as hell and gets in the way of the actual review.

DancingMaenid said:

I think it's unfair to dismiss any positive reviews as being from friends and family, and I also think it's a bit unfair to dismiss any reviews from friends as being inherently dishonest.

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+1

When I post reviews on Amazon - which I don't do all the time - I do so honestly. I can count on one hand, with fingers left over, the number of times I've been given a book to review by the author (always a stranger), and I still keep the review honest.

Some titles, especially self-published ones, just don't get a lot of reviews; Amazon's a big ocean, after all, and some little fish just get lost in the depths. That doesn't mean that reviews about them are all fakes. In a few instances, mine is (or was at the time) the only one posted. But I can assure you that I'm real, and my review was based on my impression of what I read, not any association with the author. (If I'm not real, I'm spending way too much money on food.)

As for varying reactions... well, I hate some books that get glowing reviews. And I like some books that get iffy reviews. I'm actually more likely to post a review on Amazon if my reaction varies from the majority. As a potential reader, I often skim the top and the bottom reviews in an attempt to get a feel for a title, and different POVs are very useful.

I usually read the 1-3 star reviews and decide from there whether its something I'd read. After that I do the 60 page reading test. If i'm not into it by page 60, its gone. Not sure where the number 60 came from, but it works.

I know what the 5 star reviews say without looking at them - "Yes, its awesome, best work ever." But its in the 1-3 star reviews where you're going to find the thorns and roses. Everyone has their preferences in style when they read an author's work. By looking at the 1-3 star reviews, you'll find out quickly what worked for other readers and what didn't.

They might not be fake, though I do raise my eyebrows a bit if there are only five reviews, and all except one are five. And the other is four. I won't name the book in question, but this does happen.

A.P.M. said:

Also, what is the deal on goodreads with reviewers posting gifs all over their reviews? It looks tacky as hell and gets in the way of the actual review.

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I think it's because they're not necessarily going for a serious review. Goodreads is like the tumblr of books: there are well-written posts with a serious tone, and there are cat gifs. But the users are there because they're enjoying the site.

Maybe it's just because I'm a teenager and pretty much grew up with social media, but it amazes me that people (not you, people like STGRB) think they can define standards for strangers on the internet.

A review can be just a review, but reviewers are writers with an audience, and some of them aspire to entertain, not just inform, that audience.

The cat-gif reviews and the frothy-mouthed hate-rants can be extremely entertaining. They don't necessarily tell me much that will help me decide whether I want to read the book, but that's not necessarily why I'm reading the review anymore.

I get much angrier about fake reviews than I do about nasty reviews. The former is attempted financial fraud; the latter is just an opinion.

At least with ranty reviews, it is their real opinion.

I feel bad saying the above, because I know the book is by a personal friend of mine. But I can't help feel the reviews look ... not real.

Its not any member here.

MagicWriter said:

I usually read the 1-3 star reviews and decide from there whether its something I'd read. After that I do the 60 page reading test. If i'm not into it by page 60, its gone. Not sure where the number 60 came from, but it works.

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You're a saint. If I'm halfway through chapter one and I'm already bored, I do a skim test. I skip throughout the book and look for anything interesting. If the book looks boring throughout, I stop.

ViridianChick said:

You're a saint. If I'm halfway through chapter one and I'm already bored, I do a skim test. I skip throughout the book and look for anything interesting. If the book looks boring throughout, I stop.

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You're BOTH saints. If I'm halfway through the first page and am bored I'll move on, unless it's been highly recommended by people I know (then it gets a little longer!). Sometimes I'll skim ahead through the rest of the first chapter...if I'm feeling generous.

slhuang said:

You're BOTH saints. If I'm halfway through the first page and am bored I'll move on, unless it's been highly recommended by people I know (then it gets a little longer!). Sometimes I'll skim ahead through the rest of the first chapter...if I'm feeling generous.

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This is why I love the first look, take a peek option before I buy a book.

I like to look at a few of each star review to get an overall feel of the book. If I'm still on the fence then I do the take a look option to read the first however many pages of said book. If I'm not hooked by then I don't buy.

slhuang said:

You're BOTH saints. If I'm halfway through the first page and am bored I'll move on, unless it's been highly recommended by people I know (then it gets a little longer!). Sometimes I'll skim ahead through the rest of the first chapter...if I'm feeling generous.

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Yeah, this is pretty much me. I might push through if I think it has promise but usually if I'm not grabbed in the first page or so I'm done.

According to George Arkerlof’s “Market for Lemons” information asymmetry (e.g. fake reviews) can destroy a market. In the following the relevant part is the one titled “Asymmetric information”…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons

Before I got into writing (non-fiction), as a customer I never relied on online customer reviews. The place I bought most of my books had hardly any anyway.

I had no idea how much customers rely on online customer reviews for their purchase decisions. Perhaps one of the mistakes an intelligent person can make is to assume that because something is obvious to them to the point of being well below a mental challenge to conclude so, that it is indeed obvious and will therefore occur to others.

According to my calculations the conversion rate through my own website is large compared to what it is on Amazon, the only thing of course is I don’t have several million hits per day like Amazon!

I find a higher proportion customers through my own website are professionals such as a professor, university lecturer and managing director. Others I am assuming are professionals based on how they can read English and are out in the sticks and places where it is not the language. Probably people who don’t rely on customer reviews (I don’t have any reviews or link to any on my website either). Smug? Perhaps but no not really, I have felt the same as...

mfarraday said:

I think a lot of the reviews on Amazon are fake. It bothers me greatly.

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Like anyone else, I’d want to see something positive in answer to it.

Interestingly a book of mine on Amazon that used to sell (due to being niche enough to not need any reviews in order to be visible) now sells less with a few positive reviews. Hmmmm…..too many reviews for the intelligent people who can think for themselves (and perhaps realize that real customers hardly actually bother post reviews) and not enough fabby 5 stars for the unwashed masses? Who knows, sales are down. I don’t care as most of my sales are not on Amazon now and I prefer it that way.

If you are serious and not a fraud, are Amazon reviews really worth taking seriously? Would Usain Bolt partake in a race, in which at the start line, he is next to a competitor on a motorbike with a tazer pointed at him just before the starter pistol? Even if you “win”, your genuine reviews will be in a sea of fakes. You would have looked better next to someone “racing you on foot” so why bother? All the more reason why fraudulent reviews will suppress the desire for and the amount of genuine ones.

MDSchafer said:

There's a ton of research out that shows that it typically takes several thousand customers to find one who leaves a review on a place like Yelp, less on Open Table where they actually solicit reviews.

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I’d be interested to see that.

mfarraday said:

Then you read the 1-2 star reviews and almost all of them mention the terrible editing, the puzzlement of the reviewer that there are so many highly rated reviews in contrast to their own, their bewilderment about whether those people read the same book.

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I’ve noticed a higher proportion of these kind of reviews starting with “I’ve never posted a review here before but…” or “This is my first ever review…..”.