My 3 Reasons for Self-Pubbing & Sales Updates on Print & Ebooks

Status
Not open for further replies.

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman
Super Moderator
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
22,454
Reaction score
4,956
Location
In chaos
(My favorite book by my favorite writer has 52 one-star reviews, so there are at least 52 idiots writing reviews ;))

Bullet, I know you added that smiley face to your comment so it's likely that you were joking, at least in part, when you wrote it: but I'm going to take it seriously just for now.

We really need to get away from this idea that if someone doesn't like a book that we like then they're idiots, or they somehow lack taste. I really don't like to see writers dismissing readers in this way: we depend on those readers for our livelihoods, and should talk about them with a lot more respect than that.

Hi Kaitie - That's a good question, and part of the answer is when the review had me chuckling (instead of crying) at the content, I was pretty sure I was getting a whiff of troll.

Some of my reasoning: #1 The person that wrote it said (my bold), "It was a pain to read through right from the very start." Given the fact that there are 4 full chapters plus part of a fifth in the preview, I think it's rather strange that anyone would pay 3.99 for a novel from an unknown author, when they disliked it so much from the start.

#2 While he/she said it had shallow characters, predictable plot, and choppy writing, I'm pretty sure the plot is not predictable. In fact, I'm hearing the exact opposite from everyone that's read it. This book is not about 'boy meets girl, they separate and come back together to live HEA'. In fact, it addresses alcoholism, adultery and several other life situations that touched readers enough to provoke tears and perhaps even a bit of anger in one or two of them toward me for certain things I allowed to happen in the story. As far as the shallowness of the characters, I'll leave that to others to judge.

I'm not saying my book is just wonderful - I'm simply trying to answer your question and clarify why I believe I've been visited by a troll with the intent to do damage to me for a reason only he/she knows.

I sold only 1 ebook very late on the night of the 29th, and had this review first thing this morning. This person read my "horrible" book in 4 days over New Years so they could justify writing a review? I'm not buying it.

Having said all that, as I've mentioned before, I know not everyone will like my novel; I don't expect them to. The input I've gotten to this point has been so favorable, I've truly been waiting for the other shoe to drop. But not with such a resounding thud. *sniff, sniff* "Yep, that's troll I smell all right."

Instead of labelling this reviewer a troll we could try to see if there's anything we can learn from this review. And one of the things we can learn is that writers should treat readers with more respect: the only reasonable response to a review, good or bad, is to say, "thank you for buying and/or reading my book."

People are entitled to have opinions which differ from our own and calling them names for daring to disagree with us is just not acceptable. In life or on AW.

Several posts have now been made, by more than one member, in which the reviewer is called a troll, and the only basis I've seen for that is that they've left a review Ann doesn't agree with.

You get a bad review? Suck it up. Be grateful that the reader bothered to take a look at your book. It's just as valid as a five-star review, and if you wouldn't object to one you shouldn't object to the other.

Ann, I can't download your sample as my Kindle For PC isn't working right now: but there are several problems with your book's description in the Kindle shop, and if you've employed similar devices in your book then I'm afraid the reviewer might have a point.

I'm sorry to be so blunt: but you're a professional writer now. You have to cope with these things better. If you think a one-star, three-line review on Amazon is bad wait until your book is trashed on national TV or in the national press. Until you can deal with that with some degree of grace, then you might not be ready to publish at all.
 

ChristinaLayton

Sockpuppet
Banned
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
452
Reaction score
40
Location
Florida
Hello, everybody.


OK, so here's my plan. I am going to write a novel specifically with the purpose of publishing it POD, but that will be the only novel I do this with, and my purpose is to know people's opinions about my writing before I submit my non-POD works to an agent, after editing them and polishing them till my eyes bleed. I think writers, just like singers, and anyone that does any type of literary or artistic work, when they release a novel or an album; they have to accept the fact that not everyone's going to like their work. While a few negative opinions are not a big deal, when everybody's giving your work a bad review--not saying this is the case, but, when that happens, then the writer is doing something very wrong. If the same book has a few 4 or 5-star reviews and a few 1-star reviews, that only means that, while it may have problems, some people like it and some people don't, at least in my own interpretation. If the same book has either 4 or 5-star reviews, the writer's doing a magnificent job. We have to learn to accept negative criticism. I was going to write something else but I forgot what it was because it's 4:39 AM and I've been up for the last 2.5 hours writing, but anyway...I hope I don't offend anyone with what I'm about to say, but I believe if one can't accept negative criticism then one shouldn't be releasing book or albums. We all have to learn, also, that no novel is perfect. No novel that's ever been published is absolutely perfect. I am Stephen King's #1 fan, but I accept his novels have problems, which I won't describe in detail. However, I love his writing. I love some of Shannon Drake's works. I love RL Stine. I like Joanna Lindsay. We have to remember that just because those authors released their works and are making millions and millions of dollars from them it doesn't mean those works are perfect. I don't think one should disregard their readers as trolls. Like Old Hack said, we should be grateful that people of all walks of life separated a few minutes of their time to read our books.
 

Celeste Carrara

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
591
Reaction score
48
Location
NY
Website
www.celestecarrara.com
Hi Ann! I have been enjoying reading about your journey. Please don't take this the wrong way, but I must comment on your statements about your one star review.

Please know that whatever you put out there on this forum or any other is there for the world to see. Your comments can turn off reviewers. They might think you can't take professional critisism & be afraid to review your book and give an honest review.

I can tell you from expreience I know how it feels to get a low star review. I have gotten 3! One was just a two star with no comment. The other 2 were two stars on Goodreads but translates to three stars on Amazon. Yes, it hurt at first. But, I read and reread the reviews and tried to see the positive in them. For one, neither stated my writing was crap. lol The book just wasn't for them. As a writer I have to accept that not everyone will love my book. Everyone has different tastes and it doesn't make them an idiot or a troll because they didn't like your story. As a writer I feel I can learn something from every review, good or bad.

It just makes me feel uneasy when I see an author bash a reviewer because they didn't agree with their review. I have to agree with Old Hack. The best way to respond to a negative review is with a "thank you for giving my book a try" and move on.

I wish you much luck & success and hope your next review is a positive one. :)
 

Bulletproof

live every week like it' shark week
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
79
Reaction score
2
Location
New England
Bullet, I know you added that smiley face to your comment so it's likely that you were joking, at least in part, when you wrote it: but I'm going to take it seriously just for now.

We really need to get away from this idea that if someone doesn't like a book that we like then they're idiots, or they somehow lack taste. I really don't like to see writers dismissing readers in this way: we depend on those readers for our livelihoods, and should talk about them with a lot more respect than that.

To be clear, I was COMPLETELY joking, but I can see how the winkey guy didn't convey that beyond the shadow of a doubt. That'll teach me to pick up emoticons in a bar.
 

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman
Super Moderator
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
22,454
Reaction score
4,956
Location
In chaos
Bullet, I guessed you were: but it's an important point, I think, and one we all often overlook. Thanks for taking my comments in such good spirit.
 

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman
Super Moderator
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
22,454
Reaction score
4,956
Location
In chaos
I can tell you from expreience I know how it feels to get a low star review. I have gotten 3!

You've had THREE one-star reviews? Amateur. I've lost count of mine.

Ha!

Joking aside, I think that most of the books I've written or edited have received a few low-rated reviews, but that's how it goes. They've received good reviews too, thank goodness, otherwise I wouldn't still be in work.

It can be painful to see something you've sweated over be dismissed so casually. But we really shouldn't respond to them at all, and the only way we should attempt to interpret them is to think, "how could I improve my work so that my readers don't think this again? We shouldn't question the validity of a negative review because when readers bother to read our work that's great; when they are so moved by it to review it, that's fabulous. Even when it's a negative review. They are entitled to their opinions, and we might just learn something if we listen to them carefully enough.
 

Ann Joyce

It's all about grace
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
636
Reaction score
37
Location
Minnesota
Old Hack, Christina and Celeste, "Thank you for reading my post."
 

Celeste Carrara

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
591
Reaction score
48
Location
NY
Website
www.celestecarrara.com
You've had THREE one-star reviews? Amateur. I've lost count of mine.

Ha!

:roll: Wait, it was two star reviews!! Not one star! lol Hey that extra star matters ;)

Good point Old Hack about taking reviewers negative comments to good use. For example, even my positive reviews have a running theme with my negative ones. As I'm currently writing my next book I have those comments in the back of my mind and I'm making sure to not repeat the same mistakes.
 

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman
Super Moderator
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
22,454
Reaction score
4,956
Location
In chaos
Reviews are meant to help readers find books they like. They are not intended to help writers, whose work on a book is finished before reviews come in.
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
I still don't follow :|

I always thought a review was basically someone expressing an opinion.

Yeah, and you know about opinions. Everybody's got one.

Reading reviews on Amazon, if you're an author, is a waste of time and stomach lining.

Reviews in general aren't worth your time (they're meant for the readers, not you), but Amazon reviews ... if there were a contest for the most meaningless things on the planet they'd come in second. Why second? Because they're so meaningless.
 

kaitie

With great power comes
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Messages
10,992
Reaction score
2,525
Instead of labelling this reviewer a troll we could try to see if there's anything we can learn from this review. And one of the things we can learn is that writers should treat readers with more respect: the only reasonable response to a review, good or bad, is to say, "thank you for buying and/or reading my book."

People are entitled to have opinions which differ from our own and calling them names for daring to disagree with us is just not acceptable. In life or on AW.

Several posts have now been made, by more than one member, in which the reviewer is called a troll, and the only basis I've seen for that is that they've left a review Ann doesn't agree with.

You get a bad review? Suck it up. Be grateful that the reader bothered to take a look at your book. It's just as valid as a five-star review, and if you wouldn't object to one you shouldn't object to the other.

Ann, I can't download your sample as my Kindle For PC isn't working right now: but there are several problems with your book's description in the Kindle shop, and if you've employed similar devices in your book then I'm afraid the reviewer might have a point.

I'm sorry to be so blunt: but you're a professional writer now. You have to cope with these things better. If you think a one-star, three-line review on Amazon is bad wait until your book is trashed on national TV or in the national press. Until you can deal with that with some degree of grace, then you might not be ready to publish at all.


This was my thought, too. I know not every negative comment or review or critique is right--sometimes it's just an opinion. But I think if you're going to read them, it's at least worth asking if there might be something to it. I don't see it as that much different than getting a negative critique. I might not agree with what the person says, but I always try to at least look at why they might think that and see if there's anything I can do to improve it.

Of course, the other option is just to not read reviews at all.
 

kaitie

With great power comes
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Messages
10,992
Reaction score
2,525
Hello, everybody.


OK, so here's my plan. I am going to write a novel specifically with the purpose of publishing it POD, but that will be the only novel I do this with, and my purpose is to know people's opinions about my writing before I submit my non-POD works to an agent, after editing them and polishing them till my eyes bleed.

I'm just wanted to say that, personally, I don't think this is the best plan. It's very hard to sell books POD, and those you sell are going to be mostly to people you know--friends or family for whom you could just as easily print a copy and pass it around to collect opinions. Honestly, though, even this isn't the best option because most people who know you or who you hand-sell to won't tell you the truth if they dislike it.

It's one of those sucky elements of social niceties. Most people are more concerned with offending you or hurting you than they are telling you the truth. Also, your best friend might think your book is awesome and amazing, or be impressed that you could actually write one, whereas the average person who didn't know you might think it's filled with problems. It's a bias in that we tend to be impressed by people we know even when we wouldn't be impressed by the same thing if it was by someone we didn't know.

There's also the problem that, while they might give you a reader's opinion, they also might not know enough about writing or the craft to give you the best advice or tips. I have betas (alphas, really) who are readers, not writers, but my best critiques have come from fellow writers who can not only recognize a problem, but recognize exactly what's causing it and even offer solutions to fix it. A lay person might think the writing is weak but not recognize that it's because you've completely overwritten or filled the book with purple prose or adjectives and adverbs. A writer would recognize that the writing is weak because of those problems and then you could know how to fix it.

You can easily get critiques and advice on your writing from objective beta readers, from posting sections for critique on this sight, and from just giving samples to people for free (though be careful with that because of the whole they might not be honest with you thing).

I think making a person pay to basically be your critic isn't exactly fair, if I'm being honest, and even if you sell a hundred copies, there's no guarantee that any of them will leave a single review (or a single helpful review).

There's another really easy way to find out whether or not your work is good enough once it's been polished, and that's to start submitting. The professionals are the ones who make the final decision anyway, and you'll know whether your work is at a professional level yet from the responses you get. Also, let's say you write an amazing awesome book and publish it POD. You'll have a harder time getting it published by a commercial publisher. Is it worth just basically throwing away a book? If it's not good enough, the only thing you'll get are rejections and you'll know. If it is, it will get picked up and you won't have sacrificed a great book just to find out what readers think.
 

ChristinaLayton

Sockpuppet
Banned
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
452
Reaction score
40
Location
Florida
Old Hack, Christina and Celeste, "Thank you for reading my post."


:(

I am sorry you got offended with what I said, but I reinforce it because it's the truth. When you put a work of art out there, be an album, a book, a painting, whatever, for the public to see, you have to be able to accept negative criticism. It was never my intention to offend you or anyone. I might have come off as blunt, though I'm never blunt by intention, but hey, such is life. If you're this hurt over a one-star review, I can't imagine how you'll react if you receive two. Seriously, like James Mc. Donald said, it's silly for an author to read reviews on Amazon.com. All it does is hurt your feelings and set you back. People either like or hate your work. Not everybody's going to like your work, just like not everybody's gonna hate it. Variety is the spice of life. I can't imagine the world if we all thought the same or felt the same, or even looked the same.


I'm just wanted to say that, personally, I don't think this is the best plan. It's very hard to sell books POD, and those you sell are going to be mostly to people you know--friends or family for whom you could just as easily print a copy and pass it around to collect opinions. Honestly, though, even this isn't the best option because most people who know you or who you hand-sell to won't tell you the truth if they dislike it.

It's one of those sucky elements of social niceties. Most people are more concerned with offending you or hurting you than they are telling you the truth. Also, your best friend might think your book is awesome and amazing, or be impressed that you could actually write one, whereas the average person who didn't know you might think it's filled with problems. It's a bias in that we tend to be impressed by people we know even when we wouldn't be impressed by the same thing if it was by someone we didn't know.

There's also the problem that, while they might give you a reader's opinion, they also might not know enough about writing or the craft to give you the best advice or tips. I have betas (alphas, really) who are readers, not writers, but my best critiques have come from fellow writers who can not only recognize a problem, but recognize exactly what's causing it and even offer solutions to fix it. A lay person might think the writing is weak but not recognize that it's because you've completely overwritten or filled the book with purple prose or adjectives and adverbs. A writer would recognize that the writing is weak because of those problems and then you could know how to fix it.

You can easily get critiques and advice on your writing from objective beta readers, from posting sections for critique on this sight, and from just giving samples to people for free (though be careful with that because of the whole they might not be honest with you thing).

I think making a person pay to basically be your critic isn't exactly fair, if I'm being honest, and even if you sell a hundred copies, there's no guarantee that any of them will leave a single review (or a single helpful review).

There's another really easy way to find out whether or not your work is good enough once it's been polished, and that's to start submitting. The professionals are the ones who make the final decision anyway, and you'll know whether your work is at a professional level yet from the responses you get. Also, let's say you write an amazing awesome book and publish it POD. You'll have a harder time getting it published by a commercial publisher. Is it worth just basically throwing away a book? If it's not good enough, the only thing you'll get are rejections and you'll know. If it is, it will get picked up and you won't have sacrificed a great book just to find out what readers think.


This is the best post I've ever read directed to me so far on AW, and I've been here for what? 2 weeks? I appreciate it, this is going to get bookmarked and I will have it with me forever. You have no clue just how much you've just helped me. Thank you. :)


Christina.
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
Ann Joyce, I notice that you don't have any tags on your book at Amazon. I don't know if they'd do any good if you put some on it, but ... anything that'll help readers find your book probably won't hurt.
 

Ann Joyce

It's all about grace
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
636
Reaction score
37
Location
Minnesota
James, thank you so much for the suggestion. I don't know anything about that, but I think I just did it. You've been so helpful again. I did sell 2 more last week, so that felt really good. I'm up to 3; at least that's a start. :Sun:Plus a couple of print copies yesterday.

PS: I had someone check it for me on their paperwhite, and they said it's all good, including indents. It looks good on my new Kindle Fire as well. I don't know why the indents don't appear on the 'Look Inside' feature, but I'm so happy they're good on 2 types of readers that I know of so far. I'll continue to try to get it checked on other readers as I go along. Just feeling a bit battered and bruised these days, so not doing much. Blessings!
 

sarahdalton

Banned
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
927
Reaction score
71
Location
UK
James, thank you so much for the suggestion. I don't know anything about that, but I think I just did it. You've been so helpful again. I did sell 2 more last week, so that felt really good. I'm up to 3; at least that's a start. :Sun:Plus a couple of print copies yesterday.

PS: I had someone check it for me on their paperwhite, and they said it's all good, including indents. It looks good on my new Kindle Fire as well. I don't know why the indents don't appear on the 'Look Inside' feature, but I'm so happy they're good on 2 types of readers that I know of so far. I'll continue to try to get it checked on other readers as I go along. Just feeling a bit battered and bruised these days, so not doing much. Blessings!
The indents thing happened to me as well, I get the impression that it's Amazon's fault and not much we can do about it. A few writers on other forums have had the same issue. Hopefully Amazon will sort their gremlins soon!
 

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman
Super Moderator
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
22,454
Reaction score
4,956
Location
In chaos
Old Hack, Christina and Celeste, "Thank you for reading my post."

If you carry on sucking bitter lemons like that, Ann, you're going to get all wrinkled. It's not a good look.
 

Ann Joyce

It's all about grace
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
636
Reaction score
37
Location
Minnesota
If you carry on sucking bitter lemons like that, Ann, you're going to get all wrinkled. It's not a good look.

Tell me about it, Old Hack (the wrinkles not looking good part). No worries though. I'm tying up a few loose ends and I'll be saying my goodbyes. Then you can all get on with better things.

For the record, though some here may think so, I'm not even kind of bitter. With all due respect, none of you really know me well enough to make a statement like that.

I said what I was advised to say by you and one other poster, which was, "Thank you for reading my book." I changed the word from book to post and moved on. After I wrote it, I could see how it would be perceived as sarcasm; and I should have decided to walk the higher road, but I was feeling so battered by that time, it seemed apropos.

In truth, I am hurt, extremely so; but not by the words of the person that posted that review. Just as most of you must know, there's a marked difference between hurt and bitterness. I've lived long enough to not allow bitterness to take root in me; and to learn how to move in forgiveness too. I will deal with the hurt in the days ahead, and I promise you, I'll eventually get to the other side of it.

Was I premature in publishing my labor of love as some of you seem to have already determined? Only time will tell. Meanwhile, I'll bumble along in my own little Pollyanna world, sipping from this great big old bucket of lemonade. ;)
 

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman
Super Moderator
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
22,454
Reaction score
4,956
Location
In chaos
Tell me about it, Old Hack (the wrinkles not looking good part). No worries though. I'm tying up a few loose ends and I'll be saying my goodbyes. Then you can all get on with better things.

For the record, though some here may think so, I'm not even kind of bitter. With all due respect, none of you really know me well enough to make a statement like that.

I said what I was advised to say by you and one other poster, which was, "Thank you for reading my book." I changed the word from book to post and moved on. After I wrote it, I could see how it would be perceived as sarcasm; and I should have decided to walk the higher road, but I was feeling so battered by that time, it seemed apropos.

In truth, I am hurt, extremely so; but not by the words of the person that posted that review. Just as most of you must know, there's a marked difference between hurt and bitterness. I've lived long enough to not allow bitterness to take root in me; and to learn how to move in forgiveness too. I will deal with the hurt in the days ahead, and I promise you, I'll eventually get to the other side of it.

Was I premature in publishing my labor of love as some of you seem to have already determined? Only time will tell. Meanwhile, I'll bumble along in my own little Pollyanna world, sipping from this great big old bucket of lemonade. ;)

Quoting for posterity.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.