Why such animosity towards fan works in the original fiction community?

Roxxsmom said:

And it's interesting to note how we tend to default to assumptions of straightness still. If the story was exactly the same, but Grindewald had been female, I don't think there would be as much resistance to Rowling making a statement that "she" and Dumbledore had been romantically attached off camera.

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Was (most) of the resistance to his being gay or to her suddenly coming up with that after the fact? Granted, I didn't pay that much attention to it (loved the movies but haven't read the books), but I do remember thinking "Why now?". Frankly, I thought it was more of a cheap publicity stunt - if she'd wanted him gay, why not say so from the git-go? But did people really give that much thought to the teachers' sexuality anyway? That part of their lives didn't seem to be at all important to the stories, regardless of orientation (or again, maybe it was in the books).

If an author's interpretation of his or her own work doesn't make sense and isn't supported by the text, is it still more valid than an interpretation that is supported with substantial evidence from the text?

Lillith1991 said:

Those of you who read fanfics, how do you judge a good story?

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Being true to the characters. The only fanfic I read is manga so I also judge based on the verisimilitude of the art style. And how good the sex is.

There is unfortunately very little good Shinji x Asuka doujinshi.

Though Re-Take is fantastic.

Lillith1991 said:

Those of you who read fanfics, how do you judge a good story?

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The same way as I judge a good story which isn't fanfic. I can't abide "it's only fanfic" as an excuse for bad, lazy writing.

Lillith1991 said:

Those of you who read fanfics, how do you judge a good story?

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I want a story that feels like it fits. I want the characters to be good and true to form.

shaldna said:

I want a story that feels like it fits. I want the characters to be good and true to form.

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Agreed. Even if the author has written something completely off-the-wall and against canon, I want the characters to feel in-character. Do they react in appropriate ways?

...Or does, for example, does Harry turn into a goth Death Eater, dump Ron because he's poor, and call Hermione the M-word? To that, I say: NOPE.

Edit to say: However, if someone can write Harry working with Death Eaters while still maintaining his morals and fighting the good fight, I'd be really interested to see that accomplished. I do enjoy shades of grey. (Not 50 of them; just in general.)

shaldna said:

I want a story that feels like it fits. I want the characters to be good and true to form.

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I think this is one of my biggest problems when fanfic slashes characters. So many writers can't make them gay and still keep them in-character. Stereotypes, anyone?

shadowwalker said:

Was (most) of the resistance to his being gay or to her suddenly coming up with that after the fact? Granted, I didn't pay that much attention to it (loved the movies but haven't read the books), but I do remember thinking "Why now?". Frankly, I thought it was more of a cheap publicity stunt - if she'd wanted him gay, why not say so from the git-go? But did people really give that much thought to the teachers' sexuality anyway? That part of their lives didn't seem to be at all important to the stories, regardless of orientation (or again, maybe it was in the books).

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You make some good points, but still, what if she had come up with his being straight after the fact? What if there had been some relationship between two of the teachers (say McGonaghall and Dumbledore) that had been hinted at in the text but never overtly stated, and then she came out later and said, yes, they were an item but they kept it subtle because they were teachers?

I agree, the sexuality of the teachers (well, except for Snape) was not an issue, as the focus was on the students, especially Harry. Even with an omniscient narrative, the perspective was geared towards the students and a YA readership (and how many of us thought much about our teacher's families when we were in school? Heck, some of my college students seem to think I live on campus).

But hinting tends to trigger questions, and some fans want those questions answered by the author. I guessed that Snape had a thing for Lily before it was revealed, for instance, and I felt vindicated when it showed up in the main plot. But say all the same hints were there, and were the reason why Snape hated James and Harry so much, but it was never revealed as a plot point. If Rowling had said "Yes, Snape had a crush on Lily since they were kids and that's why he hated Harry but also strove to protect him," I'd still have been going, "I made the call!" and not getting mad because she made it up off camera.

I'm just saying that an author has no obligation to not spoil things for fan fiction writers who feel that such revelations muddy the waters after the fact.

Roxxsmom said:

I'm just saying that an author has no obligation to not spoil things for fan fiction writers who feel that such revelations muddy the waters after the fact.

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And fans are likewise free to treat extra-textual statements as non-canonical.

Lillith1991 said:

This! As someone who reads almost exclusively male or female slash, I completely agree. It's a pain in the ass to find good fics, and many who are pickier about what they read when it comes to fanfic would agree with me I think.

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I'm super picky and I read predominantly m/m (but I also like het and f/f). But there are some genuinely great slash fics in the fandoms I'm in. I think, for a lot of writers, it's a point of pride to keep the characters in character while showing how romance could happen.

I've also noticed that in fandoms with younger writers, romance in general (but especially slash) is often very out of character. Not because they're younger, but because they've just had less practice writing relationships. I think a lot of people (myself included) start off writing relationships badly (or at least, not well) and that the ability to write in-character fic could improve as the fandom ages.

So it could be fandom specific, you know? I don't read Star Trek fic, but I've heard there's great stuff there because many people have been writing it for years, and after a while, you become really comfortable writing those characters.

I notice that a lot of the fics that are out of character try to push them into stereotypical gender roles--one is the 'man' and one is the 'woman'. So I usually avoid m/m fic where there's no switching because, oh, 7 out of 10 times, one or more of the characters will be out of character.

shadowwalker said:

I think this is one of my biggest problems when fanfic slashes characters. So many writers can't make them gay and still keep them in-character. Stereotypes, anyone?

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I think that's less to do with writing stereotypes and more to do with just not being very good at writing character.

It's official: Star Wars EU is no longer canon.

The EU will continue to be published under the "Star Wars Legends" line, which will mark Star Wars material that is non-canonical. Their previous canonicity will be ignored in the upcoming movies by new owner Disney.

So... Does that make them licensed fan-fiction? Why or why not?

I'd say the Star Wars EU stuff is simply licensed fiction - it was never 'fan' fiction since it was always condoned and guided by Lucas and the publishers. Those contracts were given out to authors who had generally proved themselves with other published fiction. The authors might have been fans of the Star Wars universe, but they were commercial writers first.

There may be a tiny market for fan fiction writers to be invited into commercial writing for a licensed property. I've heard it happening in Trek and Tolkien spheres - but only because the fan writer was already writing with pro-levels of skill and knowledge.

kuwisdelu said:

It's official: Star Wars EU is no longer canon.

The EU will continue to be published under the "Star Wars Legends" line, which will mark Star Wars material that is non-canonical. Their previous canonicity will be ignored in the upcoming movies by new owner Disney.

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WHAT!?!

Does that mean Boba Fett did die!?!


And no, I wouldn't consider it fanfiction, either, because it was never meant to be fanfiction. It was exactly as was written on the tin: an expansion of the Star Wars universe. To me, fanfiction is anything that simply hasn't been officially accepted in the license. However, in this circumstance, it's different because what was once canon before is no longer due to a reboot.

This is like saying all the pre-New 52 DC comics are now fanfiction.

kuwisdelu said:

It's official: Star Wars EU is no longer canon.

The EU will continue to be published under the "Star Wars Legends" line, which will mark Star Wars material that is non-canonical. Their previous canonicity will be ignored in the upcoming movies by new owner Disney.

So... Does that make them licensed fan-fiction? Why or why not?

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I never considered EU part of the tv/movie canon universe in the first place, so I'm not sure why people would be upset. I mean, the Star Wars: Clone Wars TV series already have changed the canon (and made their own canon, what with adding Skywalker's padawan, Captain Rex, etc).

I consider it licensed fiction that cashes in the movies, and to give fans something to fill in whenever there's a lack of anything Star Wars in the media.

Even if the EU was approved, it seems to me that the creator and TV/movie people don't seem to care (or aren't allowed to acknowledge?) about the EU, so I never considered the EU as part of the Star Wars canon--at least, the movie/tv media version. I consider EU its own canon and maybe even "fanon". If any of the EU is included in the TV/movie universe, then I would consider whatever parts were included as part of the movie/tv-verse canon.

And if Star Wars is rebooted, then as long as the original trilogy is somewhat acknowledged, I would embrace it as its own canon.

I wonder if my way of thinking is because I'm used to other series being rebooted a thousand times (ex: many DC and Marvel comics; Transformers; G.I. Joe; etc).

Add me to the list of people who feel that I "own" my own characters (unless I give those rights away, for whatever reason). I have always been a fanfic reader (and even have written one or two), and I don't mind different interpretations. However, I would not consider the fans "owning" the characters/world/universe. It's the creator's (or creators') only, in my opinion.

EDIT: The only reason I would feel animosity is if fans didn't respect the creator(s). (For example, they wrote fanfics or drew fanart, even when the creator(s) forbids fanworks. Also, I sometimes feel a bit awkward about people selling fanart, even with having my sister, who draws and sells some really great fanart, lol. I buy fanart, too, because that's a lot of what's selling at convention and to support artists, but I still feel weird about it, heh.)

Yeah, no, I still see the EU as canon. Just a different off-shoot of canon than the new movies. I think there can be different "AU" versions of canon--a lot of comic book series have different realities/universes.

As for whether the EU books are "fanfiction," I don't really differentiate a lot between fanfic and other forms of derivative fiction. I think the lines are very fine, and that there's nothing inherently different about a licensed Star Wars novel and a fanfic story beside the fact that the former is licensed and comes with more restrictions (a fanfic writer can kill off Luke Skywalker if they want--a writer of a licensed novel isn't going to be able to do that without the okay of the editors and the people licensing the book). And licensed work is different than fanfic in the sense that it doesn't come from a fandom, obviously.

I think it's fair enough to differentiate between fanfic and licensed fiction on bases like the ones I mention above. But in practice, I find that some people (no one in this thread, though, I don't think) differentiate between the two like it's a quality thing. Like writing licensed novels is "real" writing that isn't at all comparable to that sucky fanfic stuff. Or conversely, a lot of people judge fanfic based on the idea that writing about other people's worlds or characters is inherently lazy. Because of that, I'm hesitant to differentiate between fan writing and licensed stuff. I think it's good to acknowledge that there's some great published derivative fiction out there, and that there are writers who make a living writing licensed works. Focusing on the similarities between different types of derivative works helps dispel prejudices.

My own reasoning for choosing not to write fan fic. For many of the books that may be popular to write fan fiction, it's unlikely I have read any of them. Not out of spite of them, just because I can't afford it.

I don't think it would be fair to the fan readers of the original author to read something where it's obvious I never read the source material.

DancingMaenid said:

Yeah, no, I still see the EU as canon. Just a different off-shoot of canon than the new movies. I think there can be different "AU" versions of canon--a lot of comic book series have different realities/universes.

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Oh, yes. I sort of see it like that as well. It's an "alternative universe" (AU) that has been licensed and approved. It reminds me of the various DC/Marvel superhero universes.

For example, Spider-Man. There's a basic canon, but it's one type of universe (and the original universe, too?). If you go into the comic book shop, you can find reprints of the original/classic universe and then several other alternative universes, like "Amazing Spider-Man", "Spectacular Spider-Man", "Ultimate Spider-Man", etc. Same with Batman, though you can also find comic spinoff series of other characters within the same universe or another alternative universe (ex: "BatGirl"; "Osborn"; "Red Robin"; "Gotham Sirens" [Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Catgirl], etc). Then, there are the novels, too, which may follow their own spinoff canon.

EDIT: I'm guessing that once something is big and popular enough to become a franchise, there can situations where spin-offs and reboots can be created.

JustSarah said:

My own reasoning for choosing not to write fan fic. For many of the books that may be popular to write fan fiction, it's unlikely I have read any of them. Not out of spite of them, just because I can't afford it.

I don't think it would be fair to the fan readers of the original author to read something where it's obvious I never read the source material.

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There's fan fic (and fandoms) for all sorts of things! Not just popular book series. Some people do prefer to stick to bigger/more popular fandoms because they like interacting with a lot of people, but there's fic for almost anything you can imagine.