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Musa Publishing

Gravity

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For me, that would depend on whether the responses were coupled with action, and by action, I don't mean starting up new imprints or e-zines.

Right now I would advise any writer to avoid Musa. For that to change, Musa would have to do more marketing, be more selective in the manuscripts accepted (to the point of closing to new submissions, if necessary) and giving back the rights to authors who are, understandably, disappointed. Positive responses are nice, but actions are what counts to me.

Pretty to think so, Queen, but this will never happen. What they're failing to grasp is their name is now being linked to "publishers to avoid." And I don't know if there's any fix to that.
 

seun

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Right now I would advise any writer to avoid Musa. For that to change, Musa would have to do more marketing, be more selective in the manuscripts accepted (to the point of closing to new submissions, if necessary) and giving back the rights to authors who are, understandably, disappointed. Positive responses are nice, but actions are what counts to me.

Word for word, how I feel.

I loved my editors, and assistant editors, too. Both of the senior editors I worked with have left Musa since my books were published.

I think mine have, too.

Incidentally, did anyone else see the message last week re the role changes? There's now a new Managing Editor while the position of Editorial Director is still in place. TBH, I've read the message a few times and I'm still not sure what it actually means.
 

elindsen

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As long as I've been in their loop (going on 2 years now) they've never shared actual sales, just percentages. Percentages mean zilch without sales dollars and/or number of units sold. So they will say something like, "we had x% increase over last year, hurray!" This tells us nothing.
It doesn't tell us anything. If they've signed that many authors I'd seriously hope there'd be an increase.
 

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I wonder what would happen if everyone who has been told they're not promoting their book effectively or enough asked this question and followed Musa's advice.

If I was one of Musa's authors, I guess my biggest question would be why I would follow their advice if they can't point to themselves as an example for why their advice will work. Most of their books don't sell well. It sure seems like they're not good at public relations.

If I looked at the company as an illustration for what's to gain from following their advice, I wouldn't be optimistic. Unless I was following what seems to be their publishing model, ie make money by selling a few copies each of a large list of books.

I'd like to know what "growth" means. Yeah, I'd suspect Penumbra is growing, at least from what I've heard. The publisher might define "growth" as more submissions, more authors in-house. Not necessarily more sales.

Imo more small sales from an ever larger list definitely means growth for the company, even if sales for each book are only a few copies.
 

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I believe the reasoning behind the lack of financial investment in marketing is to ensure that Musa remains "in the black" at all times. This is an achievement to be touted for sure, as is caution in entering into print without sufficient capital. However, this business model seems to be allowing Musa to fall behind other e-pubs that established themselves around the same time. I am very disappointed in the series of events that unfolded for Musa, and the rep that is reflected by posters and author experiences on AW. Musa's success = all of their authors' success. It is conversely the same for failure.
 
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KaitlinBevis

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I think it's smart to stay in the black and I'm happy Musa's not in debt. But there is another way to be able to effectively market and produce books while staying in the black.

Publish only as many books as you can afford to promote.
 
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elindsen

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Publish only as many books as you can afford to promote.
True, but Musa doesn't get this concept. They seem to think that publishing any half-decent* book and getting minumal sales is the answer. That, somehow, it works out for them. But from the turn-over rate, I don't think this works either.

*not saying their books are bad, I just am not sure that the 500 books they contracted the first year were that great. Agents and larger e-presses don't get that high of exceptional books, so why Musa? They should be publishing the best of the best, and, from what I've heard, that doesn't apply to all of their titles.
 

Haunted_October

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Incidentally, did anyone else see the message last week re the role changes? There's now a new Managing Editor while the position of Editorial Director is still in place. TBH, I've read the message a few times and I'm still not sure what it actually means.

Yep, I did, and I'm not sure why it was such BIG NEWS as the header of that message said. It's just another roll change :Shrug:

I can't remember who mentioned it on here, but in regards to sales (and this is mainly for Musa authors): On Delphi, authors who go into the Royalty/Sales section of the site and click MUSA SALES can see how many copies of their book(s) have sold directly through Musa. Then, at the bottom of those numbers, there's TOTAL number of how many books Musa has sold since opening (I assume, because that's how it was explained to me when I asked).

It's not a huge number. Considering how many books Musa has released, that number should be much higher...IMO, anyway.
 

shelleyo

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True, but Musa doesn't get this concept. They seem to think that publishing any half-decent* book and getting minumal sales is the answer. That, somehow, it works out for them. But from the turn-over rate, I don't think this works either.

It probably does work for them, to an extent. Many books with only a couple of sales average each per month adds up to some pretty good change. Lots of little publishers stay afloat that way, though the authors are none too happy.
 

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It probably does work for them, to an extent. Many books with only a couple of sales average each per month adds up to some pretty good change. Lots of little publishers stay afloat that way, though the authors are none too happy.
True. I don't have a book with them so I'm not sure if this is how they work, but I expect their editors make royalties also? If that's the case, not just their authors are pissed.
 

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True. I don't have a book with them so I'm not sure if this is how they work, but I expect their editors make royalties also? If that's the case, not just their authors are pissed.

Yes, editors (content and line) earn their pay from royalties (at least on my books), plus the cover artist receives a royalty, all from Musa's cut of the sale of an e-book. Incidentally, when I acquired Promo Print Versions, there was a royalty paid to the content editor, line editor and cover artist included in the cost of the books.
 

seun

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True. I don't have a book with them so I'm not sure if this is how they work, but I expect their editors make royalties also? If that's the case, not just their authors are pissed.

Which makes me wonder how many of the editors and other staff are sticking around for repeat work. Because I don't think they have many repeat authors.
 

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If books sell just 14 copies and their editors and cover artists are working for royalties rather than an appropriate fee, they're not making a reasonable amount for their work.

If books were selling 140 copies, the editors and artists would still not make enough money to justify putting the time in.

So they have two options: they quit that job, and find something else; or they invest less time and effort into the job, so that they can increase their productivity. The quality of their work will go down, of course.

A royalties-only deal is rarely a good deal for an editor.
 

firedrake

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Yes, editors (content and line) earn their pay from royalties (at least on my books), plus the cover artist receives a royalty, all from Musa's cut of the sale of an e-book. Incidentally, when I acquired Promo Print Versions, there was a royalty paid to the content editor, line editor and cover artist included in the cost of the books.

I just find this appalling. You'd be better off on the dole than editing for this company. I imagine the come-back would be that it's 'valuable experience'.
No, it's slave labour.
 

seun

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I just find this appalling. You'd be better off on the dole than editing for this company. I imagine the come-back would be that it's 'valuable experience'.
No, it's slave labour.

It's a bad dream.

Sorry, my dear books. You deserved better.
 

shelleyo

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If the authors, editors and cover artists are paid only with royalties, what exactly is the publisher's investment in a book? There is none. That's a business model in which:

1. the publisher is unwilling to make an investment up front, or

2. the publisher is unable to make an investment up front

With #1, they should only be selecting manuscripts they believe in and feel they can promote properly. They should be willing to make that investment and use the profits from the first books to fund the investments in future ones.

With #2, if they don't have the money to operate the business, then they shouldn't be in business.

This whole thread makes me sad, because I remember the excitement and enthusiasm in the beginning when they snapped up so many AWers. I don't for a minute believe they ever intended to seem like an author mill. I think the intentions were the best, which makes it a double shame things are going the way they are.
 

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This whole thread makes me sad, because I remember the excitement and enthusiasm in the beginning when they snapped up so many AWers.

That's actually what gave me pause in the beginning. There are many fine writers at AW, don't get me wrong, but Musa seemed to be accepting every AWer who submitted. Every single one. And I found myself wondering why a new publisher had so many open slots that everyone from AW who submitted was accepted. Turns out I was right to be concerned. I'm so sorry for all you good folks who are now stuck in the Musa mire. Your books deserve better.
 

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If the authors, editors and cover artists are paid only with royalties, what exactly is the publisher's investment in a book? There is none. That's a business model in which:

1. the publisher is unwilling to make an investment up front, or

2. the publisher is unable to make an investment up front

Don't forget that the authors are meant to market and promote their own work too.
 

Gravity

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That's actually what gave me pause in the beginning. There are many fine writers at AW, don't get me wrong, but Musa seemed to be accepting every AWer who submitted. Every single one. And I found myself wondering why a new publisher had so many open slots that everyone from AW who submitted was accepted. Turns out I was right to be concerned. I'm so sorry for all you good folks who are now stuck in the Musa mire. Your books deserve better.

Only eleven more months for me, Scrib, then I'm gonna take my poor, neglected MS and run like my nuts have been naped.
 

kenpochick

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I am so sorry for anyone who has their books here. I remember when Musa was still getting pretty optimistic responses on this board, though I think now it's very clear that Musa falls solidly in the Beware category. ((HUGS)) A good reminder to wait and see how a publisher does over time.

Hang in there guys. :)
 

Maddie

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I don't for a minute believe they ever intended to seem like an author mill. I think the intentions were the best, which makes it a double shame things are going the way they are.

I agree with this assessment. Celina set goals and standards, though perhaps relying on Internet marketing didn't pan out the way it had been assumed. Perhaps she may have hoped that authors would have many irons in the publishing fire, boosting Musa sales peripherally. For me, I'd love to see that happening to my Musa backlist, even though I am currently writing a racier genre than I did for Musa.

Quite frankly, I write approximately 2k to 3k words per day, while concurrently running a small business, and I suck at marketing. Being with Musa has been invaluable, in that my novels received the editorial attention they required. And at least one went on to receive high acclaim from a well known web site that specializes in Romance, Erotica, etc., and definitely helped its sales, however disappointing in number.
 

Filigree

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I just find this appalling. You'd be better off on the dole than editing for this company. I imagine the come-back would be that it's 'valuable experience'.
No, it's slave labour.

In some of the early promo pitches for 'interns', this is how the job was described, as valuable for the experience. Last year I talked with someone who effectively earned less than $5 per book worked on...and yes, I'm keeping it vague to protect that person.

I saw something like this with an art gallery recently. What started out as a competently run, well curated gallery in a great downtown destination suffered due to the recession. To make extra money the owners went to a co-op format, and offered studio space. I took them up on it for a few months. Then they offered wall-fees for artists who couldn't afford to rent working space. Curation slid to the point where the gallery might as well have looked like a church parking-lot bazaar. and high-end clientele dropped off accordingly. The gallery still went out of business less than a year after becoming a cooperative.

Having a lot of little cheesy pieces (or a lot of low-selling books) might be okay for a while for the bottom line, but it doesn't always get industry respect or many return buyers (or authors).

I'm a little appalled and amazed at the number of authors who had multiple books out with Musa, even in that first year. I understand the temptation to do so, but it scared me even then.
 

Filigree

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...Musa seemed to be accepting every AWer who submitted. Every single one.

Actually, no. I'm one of the ones who got rejected, and I'm relieved about that now. I was really intrigued by Musa's declared intention to blend romance with other genres to a mainstream-level of perceived quality, something that only Carina had really been attempting up to then.

Turned out my space opera was far too gritty for Musa, which was a good thing in the long run. It went to a publisher who actually promoted it.

The industry's changed in two years. The erotic romance publishers are ramping up their game with some amazing books and authors, and mainstream SFF publishers are allowing more explicit LGBT material in.
 

Hip-Hop-a-potamus

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Incidentally, did anyone else see the message last week re the role changes? There's now a new Managing Editor while the position of Editorial Director is still in place. TBH, I've read the message a few times and I'm still not sure what it actually means.

From what I read the other day, this managing editor didn't even know that we're not allowed to take our promo print copies to local bookstores to market them there.

Celina had to correct her during the email conversation on the mail list.

That burned me up because for a moment I thought there had been a change announced that I missed (since I basically quit reading the updates-- same old rah-rah, yay us crap, with no real change). But no.

So drumming up any local interest is still limited to any signings you can arrange (mostly no's for me), or local events (a little better).
 
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Chris P

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I'm another who had my first submission to Musa rejected, back in the fall of 2011. The best part of that book became the seed of a recently completed WIP with a much better chance of getting published.

I used to do contract copy editing/proofreading work, which is far less involved than the story and plot editing the Musa editors do. I was told that I was being under paid at about $0.01 per word, where an 80,000-word novel would get me $800. My Musa editor and everyone involved put in tons of effort, and my novel hasn't even grossed $800; more like $80. If I were an editor and given the option of getting the royalties from $80 versus $800 for doing less work, my choice would be clear.
 
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