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Old 07-09-2012, 09:47 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by zahra View Post
I'm sad that we don't have the dialectic plural second in the UK, apart from the scousers' 'youse'.

We just say, 'you lot'. Really doesn't hold a candle, does it? (*weeps*)
The Irish, like Newfies, say ye (I believe.)
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Old 07-09-2012, 09:50 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by zahra View Post
Basically, there are some contractions in speech that will look damn awkward written phonetically. Nature of the beast. So if you're making up dialogue, you use artistic licence as above, I reckon.

My sis and I were wondering, just for fun, how we would write phonetically the South London boy's aggressive call-out, 'Come on, then,', which drops consonants all over the place and actually sounds something like 'ka-u-yen'.

There's a reason they tell you to avoid writing phonetically correct dialogue!
Come a'en.
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Old 07-09-2012, 10:01 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Xelebes View Post
Come a'en.
Yeah, but they don't pronounce the 'm'. And how to translate the way they make the missing 'th' into something they do with their chin!
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Old 07-09-2012, 10:29 PM   #54
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Ehhh, I've heard the m pronounced some of the time, at least. To be fair, with phrases like that you're not just working with the contractions, but us Suvvena's and our way of turning every vowel into an a. Caman'en! Caman my sun!

Maybe... Comon'en? Cao'un'en? I swear, give it another generation or two and my family will be speaking in nothing but grunts and howls.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:06 PM   #55
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Ehhh, I've heard the m pronounced some of the time, at least.

True; we were playing around with the instances when the m wasn't pronounced. I think if I remember correctly, we'd just heard some blokes squaring up to each other down Streatham High Road, and were just wondering how on earth you'd spell that noise one of them had just made!

To be fair, with phrases like that you're not just working with the contractions, but us Suvvena's and our way of turning every vowel into an a. Caman'en! Caman my sun!

Maybe... Comon'en? Cao'un'en? I swear, give it another generation or two and my family will be speaking in nothing but grunts and howls.
Mine, too. And hisses. Definitely hisses. Possibly mostly hisses.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:09 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Niniva View Post
Okay, I get that y'all is prescriptively correct, in that the contraction is in this location.

However, assuming you are referring to the vernacular of the Southeastern United State, it isn't yuh-all; it's yawl. It has traditionally been spelled for this pronunciation, and the better spelling just grates because it ruins the pronunciation.
Not following that. When it comes to pronunciation, the two are identical. I don't see any reason why y'all would be pronounced differently from ya'll. Both are 'yawl.'

I've seen it spelled both ways. For me, 'ya'll' is easier to type, which means I'm always having to correct it.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:16 PM   #57
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But y'all'll just looks a mess.
It looks a mess but I've certainly heard it used.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:18 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niniva View Post
No. I'm pointing out that the native sees "y'all" as foreign, very foreign and far too ... pointy. Foreign to the natives is generally not good for slang.

Apparently however, this is Hemingway's fault. *mutters something about stoopid Hemingway-phile teacher* Faulkner is innocent on this charge only because I never had the Faulkner-phile. Hemingway ain't from around here, so I'll cede.
And yet we've had many natives (myself included) say that they DON'T see y'all as foreign and most of us want to stab our own eyes out when we see ya'll (GOD that hurt to type).
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:57 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelebes View Post
The Irish, like Newfies, say ye (I believe.)
Yep! Ye was a lovely word to hear so much. In one region I heard a lot of 'yous' (not pronounced quite the same way as our Yankee way). So there must be a ye/yous regional distinction of some sort in the ROI.

eta: or maybe a class distinction, now that I think of it. I wouldn't have noticed that.

On y'all'll, I probably say it a half dozen times a day Y'all'd've gotten a chuckle at me schooling my international classmates and tutors on customary contractions of y'all
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:08 AM   #60
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Everyone knows it's ya'll.
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:14 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by backslashbaby View Post
Yep! Ye was a lovely word to hear so much. In one region I heard a lot of 'yous' (not pronounced quite the same way as our Yankee way). So there must be a ye/yous regional distinction of some sort in the ROI.

eta: or maybe a class distinction, now that I think of it. I wouldn't have noticed that.

On y'all'll, I probably say it a half dozen times a day Y'all'd've gotten a chuckle at me schooling my international classmates and tutors on customary contractions of y'all
Y'all'd'ven't thought of this one though.
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:33 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Figmentum View Post
Everyone knows it's ya'll.
"Ya'll" rhyming with "troll", perhaps?

Can you give the location of "everyone", so we can maybe get an idea of how these differing spellings are used across regions? How are you pronouncing "ya'll"? What is your view on "all y'all"?
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:47 AM   #63
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We say y'all (pronounced: yawl) - meaning: you all - down here in Virginia (USA)...

...the only time I hear "all y'all" is when somebody says:

"All y'all can kiss my butt!
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:37 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Niniva View Post
No. I'm pointing out that the native sees "y'all" as foreign, very foreign and far too ... pointy. Foreign to the natives is generally not good for slang.
This native has been spelling it "y'all" her entire life. Not at all foreign. Generalization is bad.
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:38 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Figmentum View Post
Everyone knows it's ya'll.
"Everyone" is wrong.
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:57 AM   #66
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"Everyone" is wrong.
About a lot of things, yes!
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:01 AM   #67
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Can you give the location of "everyone", so we can maybe get an idea of how these differing spellings are used across regions? How are you pronouncing "ya'll"? What is your view on "all y'all"?
Everyone being the northern hemispherians, of course. A hardy people, the northern hemispherians have been spelling ya'll as ya'll since the two hemispheres split -- oh, when was that . . . a hundred moles ago? give or take a mole?

*removes cowboy hat, smooths the brim, dons it again*

Now then. Where was I?

Ah, that's right . . . ya'll . . .
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:05 AM   #68
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"Everyone" is wrong.
Indeed!
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:58 AM   #69
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Not following that. When it comes to pronunciation, the two are identical. I don't see any reason why y'all would be pronounced differently from ya'll. Both are 'yawl.'

No, they are pronounced differently.

Y'all = yawl = you all

Ya'll = yull = ya will (you will)

The vowel has a completely different sound in each.
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Old 07-10-2012, 03:18 PM   #70
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No, they are pronounced differently.

Y'all = yawl = you all

Ya'll = yull = ya will (you will)

The vowel has a completely different sound in each.
So ya'll is just a phonetic spelling of you'll?
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Old 07-10-2012, 06:01 PM   #71
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The Irish, like Newfies, say ye (I believe.)
They do??? I only get to hear them talk on TV. To my American ears the way the Irish pronounce you doesn't sound like ye at all. (Thought that was the Scots, or should I say Scottish?) In fact, though I try and try, I CANNOT, pronounce it the way they do. Well, I'll leave them'all to it.

What are Newfies?
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:25 PM   #72
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They do??? I only get to hear them talk on TV. To my American ears the way the Irish pronounce you doesn't sound like ye at all. (Thought that was the Scots, or should I say Scottish?) In fact, though I try and try, I CANNOT, pronounce it the way they do. Well, I'll leave them'all to it.

What are Newfies?
Folks from Newfoundland.
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:20 PM   #73
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They do??? I only get to hear them talk on TV. To my American ears the way the Irish pronounce you doesn't sound like ye at all. (Thought that was the Scots, or should I say Scottish?) In fact, though I try and try, I CANNOT, pronounce it the way they do. Well, I'll leave them'all to it.
Scots is fine, as is the Scottish. Scotch is not; that's a drink.

Various Scottish regional accents and dialects use "ye". Car parks in tourist areas frequently have a sign at the exit saying HASTE YE BACK. Admittedly that is to living language what a lurching zombie is to true humanity, but the fact that it's a cliché is in itself telling.
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Old 07-11-2012, 02:14 PM   #74
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So ya'll is just a phonetic spelling of you'll?

As I said upthread, it's an extremely colloquial/informal way of spelling it, to the point where it's not really something that you'll ever see. The main point is, it's not interchangeable with y'all.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:09 PM   #75
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y'all
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And yet we've had many natives (myself included) say that they DON'T see y'all as foreign and most of us want to stab our own eyes out when we see ya'll (GOD that hurt to type).
Agreed. As a nativ Sutherner, I write y'all but I'll say that as a yung boy writing to my brother who was in the Marines, I wrote ya'll since I didn't kno' better!

And I hav seen "ya'll come!" at some touristy places and they seem surprized when I tell 'em it's speld "y'all".

I hav seen "yawl" in print.

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Then he scrutinized the Great Warrior, the images painted on his chest. 'Whar yawl come frum?' he asked, frowning. 'Yawl look so young. All of yawl. Is yawl humans or somethin' else?' 'Well, some people may say we're not human but we are. — 2011, Maryam X, Come to Espera, page 421
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