Lemony Snicket makes a racist ass out of himself at the National Book Awards

I still don't really get it. There must be some cultural context I'm missing here, about black people and watermelons. I imagine it's something like a Frenchman saying 'oh how funny, an Englishman allergic to roast beef'. Except when you say it about a PoC...

You just don't want to ram a stick in that hornet's nest, especially not when it's to prove 'I'm an ok guy, coz black people find my racist jokes funny...'

*facepalm*

Here's what gets me. Apparently he added this, taken from the Salon article:

And I said you have to put that in a book. And she said, you put that in a book. And I said I am only writing a book about a black girl who is allergic to watermelon if I get a blurb from you, Cornell West, Toni Morrison, and Barack Obama saying,”This guy’s okay. This guy’s fine.”

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So he knew it wasn't cool. I just -- That doesn't make any sense to me. If you know what you're saying isn't cool, and you also know it has nothing to do with the topic at hand, then why say it? Geez.

What the hell? Just... What the hell?

Yeah, I saw the Salon article yesterday.

WTF man. He already tried the joke in private and it didn't go over well, so hey, let's not take the black lady's word that it's offensive to her and (he should have been able to guess) black people in general. He's a white dude, so of course he knows funny, right?

Reminds me of the Negraph Key and Peele sketch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIRwGCJWPo4

There are times you must look at the whole package. You look at or hear the comment; you look at the person making it. Daniel Handler is not clueless, he is not moronic, and he is not unaware. The comment was mean-spirited and he is a racist asshole.

Daniel Handler said:

And I said you have to put that in a book.

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You haven't heard of Save the Pearls?

This is very disappointing, to say the least.

Kallithrix said:

I still don't really get it. There must be some cultural context I'm missing here, about black people and watermelons.

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It was a common element of horribly racist caricatures, back when they were still socially acceptable. So, to intentionally make the association, as he did, is to intentionally invoke the other aspects of those incredibly offensive caricatures, as well.

Kallithrix said:

I still don't really get it. There must be some cultural context I'm missing here, about black people and watermelons. I imagine it's something like a Frenchman saying 'oh how funny, an Englishman allergic to roast beef'. Except when you say it about a PoC...

You just don't want to ram a stick in that hornet's nest, especially not when it's to prove 'I'm an ok guy, coz black people find my racist jokes funny...'

*facepalm*

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I live in a part of the country where you couldn't swing a sack of potatoes without hitting somebody who's at least somewhat racist, and I don't get it either. But, more to the point, he obviously understood that it was and decided to make the joke anyways. I don't think that makes him a "racist ass" (I don't really view things as so polarized as that), but it was crass.

Kallithrix said:

I still don't really get it. There must be some cultural context I'm missing here, about black people and watermelons. I imagine it's something like a Frenchman saying 'oh how funny, an Englishman allergic to roast beef'. Except when you say it about a PoC...

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Here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watermelon_stereotype

Little Ming said:

Here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watermelon_stereotype

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Thanks for the link.

Blogger David Perry eloquently summed up his thoughts on the incident: “For a powerful white author to make a watermelon joke when handing out an award to a black author, the message is –[sic] no matter what you write, no matter what you do, no matter what you accomplish, you will always be a BLACK author, not just an author.”

This seems like a wrong reply to me, if I understand it correctly. Based one comment the blogger is implying that racism is a prevalent attitude in society in general. Maybe it is, but such a conclusion certainly can't be drawn from one incident. Condemn the host; not the entire population at large.

Little Ming said:

Here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watermelon_stereotype

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Ah, ok. I didn't know there was all that racist stereotyping behind it. It makes a lot more sense to me now, and makes my analogy pretty inadequate. I just thought it was along the lines of saying that Indians love curry, or Jamaicans love rice and peas. But those stereotypes, while they can be used in an offensive way, don't carry the same connotation at all.

Yeah, even more astounded now.

I'm arguing with my friend about this, who claims it isn't that big of a deal because "everyone's racist" and Daniel Handler meant no harm. She's under the impression Jacqueline knew ahead of time about Daniel Handler's comments and was okay with them. Daniel mentions in his quote that he told Jacqueline ahead of time he would bring it up at the ceremony, supporting my friend's point. Are there any new quotes about how Jacqueline feels about the incident?

I told her that even if Jacqueline was in on it, it's still wrong to make a racist joke at such a public event, but she said it shouldn't be a big deal if it was between friends.

My friend's a super cool person so I'm baffled at this interpretation. I understand her reluctance to accept Daniel Handler as racist because she's a big fan of his, but I think it's clear the joke itself was racist and inappropriate no matter who was telling it.

Hmm, why does this remind me a bit of the situation where a certain celebrated SF writer groped another celebrated SF writer who was hosting a highly prestigious awards ceremony (as I recall, there was a certain amount of argument at the time about whether or not it was sexist or simply a joke gone flat, and about whether she'd known about the "joke" beforehand, and about whether the recipient of the grope was really offended or not)?

Goes to show (as if we need a reminder) that being a celebrated writer doesn't endow a person with enlightenment or sensitivity, let alone social graces.

Ugh, just ugh.

I read amergina's link and saw this:

A private girls' school in Northern California wanted to incorporate Black History Month into lunch time, so it decided to serve fried chicken, watermelon, and cornbread.

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This shows how a huge number of Americans don't get it either.

Ken said:

Blogger David Perry eloquently summed up his thoughts on the incident: “For a powerful white author to make a watermelon joke when handing out an award to a black author, the message is –[sic] no matter what you write, no matter what you do, no matter what you accomplish, you will always be a BLACK author, not just an author.”

This seems like a wrong reply to me, if I understand it correctly. Based one comment the blogger is implying that racism is a prevalent attitude in society in general. Maybe it is, but such a conclusion certainly can't be drawn from one incident. Condemn the host; not the entire population at large.

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The reply is meant to point out that a society that provides a racist man with that much power, provides a racist man with that much voice (as a best-selling author of children's literature--children's literature), and makes that racist man the host of a literary awards ceremony is an inherently racist society. The blogger is saying that this incident is symptomatic, just as a malignant tumor is symptomatic of cancer.

I loved the Lemony Snicket books as a kid, but I recently spotted a transmisogynistic joke in his Unauthorized Autobiography, so I'm really not surprised that he's proving himself to be a jerk.

Kayley said:

I told her that even if Jacqueline was in on it, it's still wrong to make a racist joke at such a public event, but she said it shouldn't be a big deal if it was between friends.

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The moment he uttered that 'joke' in front of an audience, it ceased to be 'between friends.'

Kayley said:

I'm arguing with my friend about this, who claims it isn't that big of a deal because "everyone's racist" and Daniel Handler meant no harm.

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No, not everyone is racist.

And this is 2014. You'd have to have lived in a cave for the last 50+ years to think telling a watermelon joke would be greeted by anything but a horrible, uncomfortable silence.

jeffo20 said:

The moment he uttered that 'joke' in front of an audience, it ceased to be 'between friends.'

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Shadow_Ferret said:

No, not everyone is racist.

And this is 2014. You'd have to have lived in a cave for the last 50+ years to think telling a watermelon joke would be greeted by anything but a horrible, uncomfortable silence.

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I agree with both of you, but I was hoping to have something from Jacqueline to show her. It's probably best for me not to speak about it with her anymore, though, because it's a point of contention between us. I don't think talking to her about it anymore will help anything.

To clarify my point, I think what Daniel Handler said was wrong and was racist under any circumstance.

I've also heard that he referred to the two black poetry nominees as "probable cause." If that's true*, the watermelon comment isn't a standalone or a joke "between friends" but part of a pattern.

*I've seen it in a number of reports but they all seem to cite the same source.

absitinvidia said:

I've also heard that he referred to the two black poetry nominees as "probable cause." If that's true*, the watermelon comment isn't a standalone or a joke "between friends" but part of a pattern.

*I've seen it in a number of reports but they all seem to cite the same source.

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I had to read the links to understand the watermelon thing. And now you're going to have to explain this one to me as well. I don't know what 'probable cause' means or why it's racist.