Western writing prompts thread

dpaterso

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Know what's galling? In the UK they're showing daily re-runs of Maverick, Gunsmoke and Cimarron Strip on TCM and Movies4Men channels. And let me tell you, the stories the writers were coming up with half a century ago are better'n the ones I'm coming up with now!

-Derek
 

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That's been one of my soapboxes, Derek - there has to be a plot - and so many of the things I see on SYW are more like life stories - little interest unless you're interested in the individual for some reason. Puma
 

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Well done to everyone who's got on board with this. :)

I've just added the skimpiest of sketches to the prompt pile and am looking forward to giving everyone a crit, revising hell out of what I've written and getting involved in a proper October prompt.

Once again, well done to everyone who's giving it a go and will give it a go next time around. :)
 

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Yes, let's not forget that we need a prompt / topic for October. Why don't we aim on having one picked no later than next Saturday, the 8th?

And, since Derek mentioned the quality of story-lines in the old TV shows versus what he/we are coming up with now, I'd be all in favor of picking a prompt that involves developing a plot - such as: bank robbery, stage hold-up, train robbery, wagon train ambush, gunfight, horse thieves, cattle stampede, damsel in distress, etc., etc., etc. Puma
 

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I got started on one earlier today. Should get it on SYW Sat or Sun. It's a busy weekend my friends...

Glad to see it up in SYW now. I'm looking forward to reading and responding in the morrow.


Yes, let's not forget that we need a prompt / topic for October. Why don't we aim on having one picked no later than next Saturday, the 8th?

I was thinking the exact same thing.

The burgeoning monthly prompt has gone pretty good. Four new works up and hopefully another from Sheriff Pat on the way. But, as Puma's suggesting, this is no time to rest on our laurels.

I'll be away on the range (with limited internet and time) from the 20th so the earlier the new prompt comes the better. The 8th sounds good to me as it gives time to decide the new prompt and revise our September efforts over this week. I also think the earlier we sort the new prompt, the more time it'll give new people to join in as well as making it easier to make the November and following monthly prompts a regular first of the month type thing.


And, since Derek mentioned the quality of story-lines in the old TV shows versus what he/we are coming up with now, I'd be all in favor of picking a prompt that involves developing a plot - such as: bank robbery, stage hold-up, train robbery, wagon train ambush, gunfight, horse thieves, cattle stampede, damsel in distress, etc., etc., etc. Puma

I'm happy to leave the prompt setting in the hands those more experienced in the Western genre so any of the above is good for me. I do, however, have a question.

I wasn't quite sure what you meant when you said developing the plot. Do you mean just working on a storyline without writing the scene or do you mean working on a specific scene as opposed to writing a short story?

Both would be helpful exercises, though the former might be a little dry.

Either way, I'm happy to see we are off and running and look forward to see what's coming next prompt-wise. :)
 
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Puma

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By plot, I mean actually writing something that has a plot - what Dave posted today is a good example of a post with a plot; yours has a plot although it's a bit harder to see; mine would be more like something from a longer work where you can't really see the plot in the post; bk's is the same or if it really is a short story is plotless. I'd like to see us try something more like what Dave posted with set up, rising action, climax, and falling action. Puma
 

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By plot, I mean actually writing something that has a plot - what Dave posted today is a good example of a post with a plot; yours has a plot although it's a bit harder to see; mine would be more like something from a longer work where you can't really see the plot in the post; bk's is the same or if it really is a short story is plotless. I'd like to see us try something more like what Dave posted with set up, rising action, climax, and falling action. Puma

Yep, mine was pretty plotless. I am extremely interested in this type of challenge. I need to work on what I don't do well, so I'm game. Are we saying we would post October 31 or November 1, something like that?
 

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Yes, I think setting October 31 as the date for the next round of challenge / prompt posts would work well. If we pick a topic by the 8th, that should give everyone some time to think of an idea, write it, and even get a little editing in. (Do I hear someone whispering complete western ghost story with a plot?) Puma
 

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For this month it should be a ghost story for sure. Do we have a word max and min?
 

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For this month it should be a ghost story for sure. Do we have a word max and min?

Okay. Is this "ghost" a strict supernatural eternal soul of an unhappy former cowboy. Or, could we interpret it however we like? I rarely do what you would expect. Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't.
 

CDaniel

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Nothing like a ghost cowboy, bk. I'm thinking more along the lines of a traditional ghost story like told around a camp fire when you were a kid.



Tell you all what, I'll come up with a prompt for this month. I just need to have a set word limit that everyone can work with.
 

bkendall

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Nothing like a ghost cowboy, bk. I'm thinking more along the lines of a traditional ghost story like told around a camp fire when you were a kid.



Tell you all what, I'll come up with a prompt for this month. I just need to have a set word limit that everyone can work with.

Hey, I'm still a kid. (In many ways, that is) :)

What I was thinking of would be an emotional ghost, or possibly someone faking a ghost to influence people and their actions. I've just never been much on the ghost story thing. In fact, no one ever told them to me as a child.

I can probably work with almost any prompt. Could I nominate a 2000 or less word limit?
 
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CDaniel

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I'm liking the 2000 word limit
 

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2000 works, but, I'd say if it ends up a complete story at 1550 or 2025 that's fine. Sometimes trying to add words will kill a story and trying to find 25 words to cut out can be torture.

My opinion on the type of ghost is whatever. I don't think we want to hem people in by being too specific on the type of ghost. If you look at the website, Legends of the West, and the ghost section, there were some interesting ghosts. I used one of them in my novel.

So, Dan ... you're up ... prompt. Puma
 

CDaniel

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Okay, Puma, I'm on it. I'll have a prompt up today :)
 

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Posting a note here so hopefully more people will be aware. Yesterday I updated the Western Markets sticky at the top of the Western forums. I still have more to do, but there are some ideas for possible markets for short fiction there. Puma
 

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Posting a note here so hopefully more people will be aware. Yesterday I updated the Western Markets sticky at the top of the Western forums. I still have more to do, but there are some ideas for possible markets for short fiction there. Puma

Great work, Puma; not only recently, but historically, too. You have done, and continue to do sterling work in providing a wealth of information and help to the members of this site and it is much appreciated. :)

I've been pretty busy, and will continue to be pretty busy for this coming month due to grafting, drinking, hustling and -- on a lighter note -- celebrating a landmark birthday with my father. Still, (regardless of the fact I am only learning and not yet writing to publishable standard) I look forward to helping investigate the markets in the near future.

With that said, I do have some thoughts about what we are all trying to do with the Western SYW and genre at this time and will now put on my pretentious hat (put on, you say?) and list a few things I would like to see happen.

* That Puma's amendment of the western writing markets went unread tells me that the structure of the sub-forum is not conducive to easy reading. So I suggest that Dave Hardy's very useful western history thread is stickied and the three, also very useful, 'Van Cleave' memoirs are merged with it. This will cut the amount of sticky in half and leave Puma's 'how to and where to go' thread that shows there's a future in the genre at the top, seconded and supported by DH's invaluable resource thread next to it.

* I would like to see the stickies in the Western SYW ported or merged or gone, too. Yes, they are interesting and useful, but the age old last post nature of their being only serves as a symbol of the anachronistic nature of this genre which is something we should be seeking to avoid if we want to revitalize the genre and instill interest in it.

* We have successfully, although in my case, poorly & verbosely, started a regular Western prompt. However, we now have an October prompt and this is only advertised in the western sub-forum. Surely, this (just the prompt itself, the loose rules of the prompt and the information that it is to be a regular thing) should be the lead and only sticky in the SYW sub-forum. This will capitalize on the new movement in the SYW forum created by the September prompts and give people exploring the forum for the first time something to join in with and get their teeth into.

* I suggest that anyone who's interested in trying to get new people to start writing westerns and joining in with the prompts should add a advert and a link to the new prompt to their signatures and cajole both their friends and enemies to give the western genre a go.

* I think a competition, no prize other than kudos needed, should be thought about. This, again, will raise awareness of the genre and get people interested. (Ribbons not needed.)

* A petition to the PTB should be raised in support of either randomizing, or stickying, the less visited genres in SYW. If this is done, people who only ever visit certain genres will at least pass over the western (and other unvisited genres) on the way to their own rather than be totally oblivious to them. This can only be a good thing in widening peoples horizons.

* There could be a certain and concerted effort by those writing westerns to start submitting en masse to certain publications. Now, this may (certainly in my case) put off these publications due to coercion and the poor quality of the writing. But, if we can get enough people doing it and interested in it and excited in it then said publications may start to take note that something is happening and a scene is developing.

* I think we all have discussed the different types of western (classic, modern, hybrid et al) at length and I think we need to let people know that all of these are welcome in the forum. I think we have made a good start with this with the October ghost western Halloween prompt. But we should definitely try to advertise this more. If we can get some of the much viewed sci-fi genre writers to think their work is more western than sci-fi we will get more writers and readers in. Cowboys and aliens, anyone? We should know whats at the box office and exploit it. (in a positive and friendly way, of course.) This doesn't mean we always have to do something away from the classic, but i think the signs that all is welcome should be big and neon.

* The bent nail saloon has quite a few well respected (ahem) and wide posting regulars. If we can get these fellers and fellowesses on board with what we are trying to do they would be worth their weight in gold. Of course, these people may have objections to being measured in gold, but I'm a hoping that they won't mind at all.

* Other ideas, for I am now running out of liquor, include self publishing, various amount of blogging, drawing interest in old and new western books and film, a wet T-shirt competition and anything that you reading this now can think of. This list is not exhaustive.

We've made a helluva start to things and I think its only fair to everyone who has gone before, and everyone who has been here a while and is still giving it a go, and everyone who is new and giving it a go, to try make this reinvigoration of the western genre, both on site and off, work. :)

With that said, I remove my pretentious hat (remove? you say!) and bid y'all a fond adieu.

P.s, can anybody help me get this hat of, it seems to be stuck. :)
 

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Some comments and responses, Harry (you got the hat off and somehow it managed to come my way!)

celebrating a landmark birthday with my father curiosity - may I ask which one?

* That Puma's amendment of the western writing markets went unread tells me that the structure of the sub-forum is not conducive to easy reading. So I suggest that Dave Hardy's very useful western history thread is stickied and the three, also very useful, 'Van Cleave' memoirs are merged with it. Derek can do this if everyone is in agreement. I do think it's good to limit the number of stickies in any forum.

* I would like to see the stickies in the Western SYW ported or merged or gone, too. My thought on that would be for someone to consolidate the prior ideas for topics into one post so there is a resource of ideas available. We have been derelict in not asking Derek or another mod to unsticky those.

* We have successfully, although in my case, poorly & verbosely, started a regular Western prompt. However, we now have an October prompt and this is only advertised in the western sub-forum. Surely, this (just the prompt itself, the loose rules of the prompt and the information that it is to be a regular thing) should be the lead and only sticky in the SYW sub-forum. In Historical, we keep one main challenge topic thread stickied and the originator edits the main post when new monthly topics are suggested. At the moment historical is in a bit of a slump and for the first time in years has no monthly challenge this month. So, look at Historical SYW and see what you think (and we do actually use the Scutum thread from time to time.)

* I suggest that anyone who's interested in trying to get new people to start writing westerns and joining in with the prompts should add a advert and a link to the new prompt to their signatures and cajole both their friends and enemies to give the western genre a go. Possible, but there might need to be a bit of a definition on what we mean by western.

* I think a competition, no prize other than kudos needed, should be thought about. This, again, will raise awareness of the genre and get people interested. (Ribbons not needed.) Several years ago we had a contest to write about a rodeo. Anyone interested could submit a piece to the designated mod who posted them all at the same time and then everyone read the posts and made their picks. Animals and Nature had a similar contest more recently and there were some prizes. It's an idea. A few of us have kicked the idea around within the last couple years.

* A petition to the PTB should be raised in support of either randomizing, or stickying, the less visited genres in SYW. If this is done, people who only ever visit certain genres will at least pass over the western (and other unvisited genres) on the way to their own rather than be totally oblivious to them. This can only be a good thing in widening peoples horizons. Interesting concept, but, if anything's done to the way the forums appear, my thought would be to alphabetize them - and where would Western be? And, these days when I visit SYW I check the top main forum and then whiz right down to the bottom to check historical and western - so, I don't think your idea would improve traffic.

* There could be a certain and concerted effort by those writing westerns to start submitting en masse to certain publications. Now, this may (certainly in my case) put off these publications due to coercion and the poor quality of the writing. But, if we can get enough people doing it and interested in it and excited in it then said publications may start to take note that something is happening and a scene is developing. This is the mission statement of Frontier Tales, the online mag that's in post 15 of the markets thread. Unfortunately, I don't think they're offering any payment. But, their philosophy is what we're talking about.

It's been said that the publishing industry doesn't do Westerns because the market won't support them. That may be true but, it occurs to me, it's awfully hard to sell many Westerns if nobody will publish them. Sounds like a Catch-22 to me.

I don't like Catch-22 situations. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. My momma used to say, "Do something. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!" So, I'm going to do something. I'm going to publish Westerns and other stories that deal with the raw edge, where civilization crashes into the frontier. That clash is where the action is, and that's what so many of us love to read about.

So pull up a chair. The tale-telling is about to start.
So here, it sounds like we have an outlet for stories we put together (and some similar long-suffering souls)

* I think we all have discussed the different types of western (classic, modern, hybrid et al) at length and I think we need to let people know that all of these are welcome in the forum. I think we have made a good start with this with the October ghost western Halloween prompt. But we should definitely try to advertise this more. If we can get some of the much viewed sci-fi genre writers to think their work is more western than sci-fi we will get more writers and readers in. Cowboys and aliens, anyone? We should know whats at the box office and exploit it. (in a positive and friendly way, of course.) This doesn't mean we always have to do something away from the classic, but i think the signs that all is welcome should be big and neon. I have mixed feelings on this. We've had some cowboys and aliens posts before, and for me they're a turnoff. I'm one of the very few "always" critters in Western SYW. But, in the vein that Harry suggested this - I noticed that this month sci-fi and horror have gotten together for their monthly challenge. There's no reason a story submitted there couldn't have western flavor (and I suppose no reason a story submitted for our prompt couldn't have horror and sci-fi as long as a few other people plan to read and crit.)

* The bent nail saloon has quite a few well respected (ahem) and wide posting regulars. If we can get these fellers and fellowesses on board with what we are trying to do they would be worth their weight in gold. I may get shot for this, but I sort of think that forum ought to be in Office Party instead of here. Sometimes I don't even realize there's a new post or thread because the forum topic showing is almost always Bent Nail Saloon.

* Other ideas, for I am now running out of liquor, include self publishing, various amount of blogging, drawing interest in old and new western books and film, a wet T-shirt competition and anything that you reading this now can think of. This list is not exhaustive. I was involved in an invitational book composition in which everyone was given a bit of information about the set-up (western, mining town) and then wrote their own stories. The book was independently published and everyone who had a story in the book received an author's copy. It was fun. Not sure they made much money on it though.

So, some of my thoughts. Unfortunately, from having been here on AW for several years I know the interest in western seems to run hot and cold. In the slow times before the Bent Nail Saloon there were sometimes only one or two posts per month. Also unfortunately, some of the people who showed up first here in western have migrated to sci-fi/fantasy. I haven't quite figured that out yet, but I guess there must be a correlation - Ghost Riders in the Sky and all. Puma
 
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bkendall

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I just want to let you know that I did read the updated sticky about markets when you posted here that you changed it.

Unless things drastically change with my situation, I will always be here to help out. Would it be improper to pm those we meet in other forums about giving western a peek? It's rare that anyone brings up anything that would suggest they like westerns, so it'd be kinda like shooting in the dark. Regardless, I will have something for october's prompt. I know it's hard to keep up a passion for something that gets so little support compared to other areas. I admire y'all for your hard work.

On a side note, I will likely be posting something outside our prompts in SYW soon. I need help with which works better as a starting point but could run concurrently. Should I just set a break and post it all together?
 

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Hi BK - Thanks for mentioning that you saw the fixes in the markets thread. I wasn't complaining, just wanted to make sure people knew that it had been updated in case they had anything to submit. I do plan to work on that thread some more and get more good information into that first post.

On posting your work in western SYW - the general rule of SYW is that posts of WIPs are always okay regardless of whether there are challenges going on or not. Just remember that the longer the post, the less likely you are to get too many readers. Post your WIP and challenge in SEPARATE threads.

It's okay to let other people know we have a challenge going in western. I sometimes put a thread in historical to let those writers know western has something (and vice versa). But, you always have to remember that the people here on AW have varied interests in writing - some only want to talk about their own WIP and have blinders on to anything other than trying to get it published, some are interested in looking at challenges with the idea of being able to write something that might be publishable (and that's where being too limiting in the topic can hurt), there are some who are interested in learning more about writing and having some fun doing it, and there are a few who are here mostly for the social aspect of the community (sometimes a result of being between projects or needing to think about something other than serious writing).

Since I'm sort of soap-boxing, I'm going to go on with it a bit.

AW is a collection of people interested in writing. Everyone is equal with the exception of the mods who have more access abilities, but who also have to watch the threads for inappropriateness, flame wars, bad situations, etc. Mods are also writers and with their mod responsibilites don't always have as much time as some of the rest of us do to think about consolidating threads, etc.

Which is why, when suggestions come up like Harry's last night to get rid of some of the old stickies or consolidate posts, we have to decide whether it's a good idea and then one of us has to notify Derek or one of the other mods and ask him to make the changes. And on the stickies, all that would happen is that they'd be unstickied and over time sink down off the first page in the forum. They are not deleted.

That's also the case with things like contests. A mod has to be willing to take it on and manage it and that consumes more of their available time. (Lots of people on AW have full time jobs plus families and personal projects they're working on.)

The other thing about AW and the community is that forums only work well when there are several people willing to give as well as take. It's fun to put up posts in SYW and get comments on improving, but unfortunately there are always posters who don't give back and make comments on posts put up by others. This is a continual gripe in SYW. Those of us who have been here for a while know, and will tell newcomers, that we have learned as much if not more from critting other's work than we have from the comments made on our own.

Bottom line - the more all of us get involved, the better the chance that the western forums won't languish anymore. Puma
 

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Sorry for misunderstandings, but Harry had mentioned that no one had read the market post. Just letting him know someone had. I would have posted my WIP separate from my challenge. I have two possible beginings. One of them starts with the MC riding into town and is kind of slow but the other option starts after he arrives in town and walks in the saloon. The second option has much more action. Since they could be concurrent if the first one is the best I was wondering if I should just use one thread for both options and make it easier for critters.
I'm one of those people with a full-time job with other activities. In the end, I would rather help others become good writers and be published than for me to do it. The goal for me is to improve and help others become better. What everyone else does here is their own business. Sure, it irritates me at the lack of give and take, but what can I do about it? I'll edit some and try to post my options this weekend.
 

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I'm not preaching at you, bk - you've been an excellent addition since you showed up.

On your optional openings, you might want to put them in the same post and tell people at the top of the post that you want opinions on which one is a better opener. That approach has been used here before. Looking forward to seeing them (even though I have a reputation around here for harping on starting with the action since that's what the market apparently wants these days.) Puma
 

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Thanks, you answered my question. I shared some dialogue with my old man (the L'amour savant) and he really liked it. I'm kinda excited about this. BTW never thought you were preaching at me. I understand how people feel around here for the most part.