Quiltbag Cantina and Tearoom

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Timmy V.

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Hey so I'm looking at Quiltbag. I thought I'd see a lot more posting and new threads. As a gay person, there's so much going on. I feel as if my gay identity takes me down paths and perspectives unique to other gay people. I feel like our magazines have ads unique to us, my gay friends often make decisions about vacation spots etc that the mainstream often do not take.

Theres zillions to talk about. What am I missing? I don't think I'm reading the "last post dates" wrong. Since I've been on AW and lurking Quiltbag I'm wondering if I make too much of a big deal about being gay now. I'm feeling a little isolated. Theres almost no gay community in my writing world at home. There are almost no threads or posting in Quiltbag on AW.

What does it mean? Am I the only gay writer that needs gay community? Thats the only theory I can see. The previous "gay writing groups" thread sorta fleshed that out.

I'm 52, as a gay person, I feel terribly old. I'm jealous of the other minorities that organize and network so much. I'm so sick of seeing the "International Women's Writing Guild" and "Pyramid Lake, a writer's retreat for women."

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. With everything going on related to the gay identity, there is no International GLBT Writing Guild or Pyramid Lake, a retreat for gay people."

ugh.
 

Anninyn

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Bisexual here, so you know, all the shit that entails from both sides.

But I don't feel that personally it's my main identidy? I mean, I'm me, and 'me' likes dark chocolate and collects ducks, and recently hurt her ankle and her favourite month is autumn and she dyes her hair red and paints her nails purple and also likes to have sex with both boys and girls. It's a part of my identity, but not the main focus. Most of the QUILTBAG folks are active in other parts of the board, and talk here when an issue comes up.

I don't feel being bi brings me any unique perspective any more than me being a redhead or a women or very pale skinned or of Irish heritage or just being a fallible human being in a fallible world does. I mean, I'm not magic, or anything, right?

Right?

If we get magic powers I think something's wrong because I didn't get any.

You shouldn't feel isolated just because the QUILTBAG folks don't need to talk much. Plenty of people on this board are LGBT. Just- it seems like there's a limited number of writing-related things that also encompass being LGBT and a lot of them are covered?

It's similar to the religious beliefs subforums and the POC subforums in that way. Conversations occur when something important happens.

Anyway,. that's just how I feel about it. If you don't feel the same, that's fine!
 

Caitlin Black

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I post in here from time to time, giving updates on my life. But it doesn't happen often, as not much changes from day to day. And I avoid the political threads, because I don't feel like getting into an argument if I say something that hasn't been thought all the way through.

Perhaps you could start a thread on a topic you really want to discuss? I've noticed that there can be no action here for a few days, then suddenly there are 10-20 posts in a new thread the next day.
 

ULTRAGOTHA

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Being gay is a small part of my identity. Smaller than historical reenactment, smaller than SF conventions, smaller than writing. I'm interested in political equality but I've never been part of the gay community.

So I only post here when I'm drawn to a topic on ss marriage or DOMA or the like.
 

mayqueen

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I mean, maybe it's because the only writers I know in face-to-face space are queer, but I don't necessarily feel the need to seek out a gay community, myself. Like Anninyn, I'm bisexual, and being in a relationship with another ciswoman is only part of who I am. While I write about queer characters, I don't think my work is defined as particularly gay or not gay.

Having thrown that out there, I also agree with Cliff Face. If you want to talk about something, reach out! Post about it. Find people in other sections of AW who are also into QUILTBAG writing and befriend them!
 

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If you want to discuss something, you can always start your own topic :D

Personally...well, I'm asexual. There's just not much to talk about. :p It's not something I think about, usually, and even when I do it's not really a thought--it's just kind of incidental.

I'm jealous of the other minorities that organize and network so much. I'm so sick of seeing the "International Women's Writing Guild" and "Pyramid Lake, a writer's retreat for women."

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. With everything going on related to the gay identity, there is no International GLBT Writing Guild or Pyramid Lake, a retreat for gay people."
Perhaps you're not looking in the right places. :D Google the phrase "lgbt retreat" and the first result is one for writers.
 

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I do consider being queer to be a major and important part of my identity, and I like having ties to an LGBTQ community.

But I don't post here a whole lot because I'm busy, and this isn't the first place I go for discussions related to sexuality and gender identity. By the time news shows up here, sometimes I've already heard about it a lot. But I do like this forum, and I like participating when I get a chance.

I don't think you're an oddball, by any means. It's fine to want a community. If there are things you'd like to see discussed more, why not make a thread? I'm sure there would be interest.
 

Timmy V.

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But I don't post here a whole lot because I'm busy, and this isn't the first place I go for discussions related to sexuality and gender identity.

Hey so wheres the first place you go for discussions related to sexuality and gender identity?

I google that stuff. All i get under gay male is hook up sites and porn sites. Wheres the "gay life" sites?

I beg thee for links.

I see now my first post sounded whiney. Sorry about that.

Hey so several of the writers posted being gay isn't a big part of their identity.

That makes me wonder now. Since there are many writing associations that do organize for women exclusively and other minority writers exclusively, and writers tend to be at the forefront of social change, and gay writers don't see the need any longer to organize as gay anything since thats not the key to our identity - if our identities are assimilated within ourselves and the mainstream -

why am I seeing so much stuff in the media about gay marriage, gay rights, boy scouts not letting gays participate etc?

Is the media overblowing the issue? It would seem that discrimination, experienced first hand, would enhance our gay identity within ourselves.

So if the majority of gay people are so content with the world around them and within themselves that they hardly even think of their sexual orientation one way or another (vast majority from what I can see since theres nuttin gay exclusive anymore)-

the only way I can square that level of gay contentment with the media's barrage of gay discrimination reporting is?

actually I don't know how to square those two things...
 

Anninyn

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Because how idividuals feel about themselves doesn;t always have anything to do with how the world feels about them? Anti-LGBT prejudices fucks me the hell off and I shout about it. But I don't shout about it here, because this is where I talk about writing. I don't shout about it at home, because that's where I eat chocolate and have baths. I write letters to my MP about prejudicial laws, I go on marches and I talk to people. But I'm still much more, as far as I'm concerned, than 'Anninyn, Bisexual.'

It's not that it's not a big part of my identity, it's just it's not the only part and it doesn't affect my whole life.

As for the furor, most of that is in the US, yes? I mean, we have a fair bit of our own anti-gay prejudice here in the UK but because we have hate-speech laws it's fairly easy to tell someone to shut up.

I think, for me, I'm more caught up in the feminism movement. This may be because I'm married to a man and I 'pass' - but I've experienced a great deal more hate and prejudice directed at me for being female than I have for being bi, and I only really have the energy for one big fight.

I'm also not sure what effect individual people and their self-interpretation of identity have on the media and the LGBT rights issue? Just because individuals don't feel that being LGBT isn't their main characteristic doesn't mean they aren't hurt by or fighting anti-LGBT prejudice. I can't speak for others, but for me, I feel if I let it get to me and make me discontented with who I am, they've won. Sometimes the best way to fight that sort of bullshit is to just be yourself and be happy with it, even while they're telling you not to be - it seems that's pretty radical in and of itself, sometimes.
 
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mayqueen

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Being bisexual not being the focus of my identity and my level of concern about QUILTBAG rights issues aren't antithetical. I care a whole lot. I was just bitching on Twitter (total activism, yeah) about the lack of believable gay characters on television. And I'm the US, where I can't marry my partner. So, I care a lot. But not considering being in a lesbian relationship the major backbone of who I am does not mean I don't care that I'm treated unequally. I just loathe identity politics.
 

DancingMaenid

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Hey so wheres the first place you go for discussions related to sexuality and gender identity?

I google that stuff. All i get under gay male is hook up sites and porn sites. Wheres the "gay life" sites?

I beg thee for links.

For me, it's mostly real-life stuff right now. I'm semi-active in the campus LGBTQ group at my university, and since I belong to that group on Facebook, I get a lot of alerts when people bring up a news article or promote something going on locally.

I'm also involved in online fandom, which can have a high concentration of LGBTQ people and interest in sexuality and gender in some areas.

So I'm afraid I don't really have links. I don't know of that many good social sites that are geared specifically to LGBTQ people. I used to be fairly active in the community at AfterEllen.com, but I'm not sure if their brother site, AfterElton.com, has a strong community or not. Maybe it's worth checking out? It's more of an entertainment-focused site, though.

So if the majority of gay people are so content with the world around them and within themselves that they hardly even think of their sexual orientation one way or another (vast majority from what I can see since theres nuttin gay exclusive anymore)-

the only way I can square that level of gay contentment with the media's barrage of gay discrimination reporting is?

actually I don't know how to square those two things...

I don't think it's that the majority of gay people are content. I think most are aware that there's still a lot of discrimination and inequality, and have a problem with that.

I think it's more a matter of self-perception, and how important sexuality is when it comes to how you see yourself. For me, my sexuality is important. When I think about who I am, sexuality is a part of that. Some people just don't identify with it as much.
 

ULTRAGOTHA

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why am I seeing so much stuff in the media about gay marriage, gay rights, boy scouts not letting gays participate etc?

Although being gay is not a large part of my self-identity, I'd like myself and my wife to have all those hundreds of benefits that come with being married in the US. Hence, I'm all for gay rights. As are almost all my friends, who almost all are straight.



Is the media overblowing the issue? It would seem that discrimination, experienced first hand, would enhance our gay identity within ourselves.

So if the majority of gay people are so content with the world around them and within themselves that they hardly even think of their sexual orientation one way or another (vast majority from what I can see since theres nuttin gay exclusive anymore)-

the only way I can square that level of gay contentment with the media's barrage of gay discrimination reporting is?

actually I don't know how to square those two things...

As I said, just because I happen to be gay doesn't mean the majority (or any, really) of my social life is in the gay community. And yes, I'm pretty happy with my life overall.

However, there are countless things in my life (and even more in the lives of other SS couples around the country) that are a pain in the ass because of DOMA and related bigotry. If not for DOMA, I wouldn't have to pay for Medicare Part B *and* health insurance from my employer for my wife. Grrr.

If it wasn't for DOMA, that widow in MA could get the federal widow's benefits from her wife's death. If it wasn't for DOMA, the guy in California wouldn't be facing the deportation of his husband.

Just a few good reasons to focus on gay rights in this country even if I'm not interested in a QUILTBAG writer's group.

And then there are all the issues that face bis, transsexuals and others. If I fight for my rights, it's only fair to fight for theirs.

Plus there are countless activists who are in the gay community who fought for the rights I have now. (I'm legally married in my state, for example. I have the right to keep my job, etc.) Some payback of that is warranted I think, even if I'm not part of the QUILTBAG community.


My not being part of the community doesn't mean that "the majority of gay people are so content with the world around them and within themselves that they hardly even think of their sexual orientation one way or another". Two or three posters on this thread do not a majority of QUILTBAGs make.

There are gay interest groups around here. Are you sure there are none around you? You may just live in an area where the out population isn't big enough to support such groups.
 

Timmy V.

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But I don't shout about it here, because this is where I talk about writing.

but I don't hear gay writers shouting about being gay anywhere Anninyn outside of the political pulpit.

I love that when women writers talk about being women, women are talking.

when gay writers try to talk about being gay, gay people are "shouting"

what a perfect show of my point.

oh why bother.
 

Anninyn

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but I don't hear gay writers shouting about being gay anywhere Anninyn outside of the political pulpit.

I love that when women writers talk about being women, women are talking.

when gay writers try to talk about being gay, gay people are "shouting"

what a perfect show of my point.

oh why bother.

Dude, that wasn't what I was saying. Just saying that this isn't where I want - or need - my sexual identity to be front and centre. I have other places for that. I'm sorry that you don't.

Please don't be rude to me - or other people here - because we are trying to explain why this specific forum isn't as busy as you'd like. If you want to talk about your difficulties and unique insights because you are a gay writer, feel free. I'm sure some people would love to talk with you about it. But accept that not everyone sees themseves that way, will you? I'm not a bisexual writer. I am a writer (and a wife, daughter, computer gamer, cat lover and human) who happens to be bisexual.

I just don't identify with my sexual identity as deeply as you seem to, and that doesn't make either you or me wrong, and it doesn't make the other people who've said the same wrong either.

The only thing any of us can do is be honest about who and what we are, and what matters to us.

Oh, and by the way, I'd refer to myself as shouting about inequality towards women as well, because you best believe I raise my voice. I don't see 'shouting' about my fundamental rights as a fellow human being a negative things.
 

Kim Fierce

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I'd like to see more posts here too. When I first signed up it seemed there was a lot more action. I belong to another writing group that I'm more active in, but I like coming to this forum mostly because it does have a QUILTBAG group. Being a lesbian is a daily part of who I am . . . and most of my publications are on LGBT-related issues or have LGBT characters. Not having a lot of role models or gay peers in my life, I like to try to join whatever gay community I can! I do have some people I interact with now who run the whole spectrum in "real life", but none are writers, so this place is very special to me.
 

Mara

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Activity here tends to go in bursts, mostly. As for me, I haven't been posting as much for several reasons:

1) I've been busier lately, which is nice except that it leaves me tired sometimes. When I'm tired, it's easier to browse other threads and harder to talk about really emotional things.

2) I'm mostly through a gender transition process and it pretty much dominated my life--like it does for most trans people--and I'm still kinda recovering from that and learning to think about little things again.

3) My fiancee lives in another country. DOMA is getting in the way of her coming here, although we might be able to find a loophole due to a trans-related technicality. It's stressful. I'm not as stressed and scared and angry as I was early transition, but this election really has my blood pressure raised. We have a candidate proudly running on the "keep Mara from being able to live with the person she loves most" platform.

AW has a "respect your fellow writer" rule and I think that's necessary for civility. There are American writers here who are going to vote for Romney, who will do everything in his power to make my life more difficult and make it harder to get married to the woman I love. Some of them are voting for him in part because they agree with his policies. A few of them almost certainly want sodomy to be outlawed again and just have the sense not to say it out law, and we had at least one poster get banned for talking about wanting to hurt transgender people, so there's probably more.

In short, there's people here that I have every right to regard as my enemy. These people don't care if their decisions make me and other LGBTQA people suffer, and some of them are even intentionally doing it because they believe that hurting us can force us to conform to their norms. I have to be polite to them, and the best way to do that while keeping my blood pressure down is to try not to think about it.
 

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but I don't hear gay writers shouting about being gay anywhere Anninyn outside of the political pulpit.

I love that when women writers talk about being women, women are talking.

when gay writers try to talk about being gay, gay people are "shouting"

what a perfect show of my point.

oh why bother.


Timmy, I'm not sure what you're after.

If you want to talk gay politics -- should gay marriage be legal, etc -- you can discuss it in QUILTBAG (though you'll be preaching to the choir) or you can discuss it in Politics and Current Events (which many of us avoid, periodically or permanently, because of blood pressure issues as other posters have noted).

If you want to talk about gay fiction/nonfiction, QUILTBAG is probably the best place. Have at it.

If you want to talk about the craft of writing, that's not a gay/straight thang. It's a writing thing. It's what all of AW is about. No need for any of that to be limited to QUILTBAG.

If you want to talk about aspects of writing/being a writer that are peculiar to gay men, feel free to start new threads in QUILTBAG. If you feel the discussion on such threads is inadequate, well, you can't really command other AW members to join such a discussion. Maybe people aren't interested. Maybe they have other venues for such discussions.

Me, I mod a forum that focuses on lesbian writers and lesbian fiction, and that's where I discuss those issues. Perhaps there is something similar out there for gay male writers that might suit you? Like this place .
 

Timmy V.

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Timmy, I'm not sure what you're after.

If you want to talk gay politics -- should gay marriage be legal, etc -- you can discuss it in QUILTBAG (though you'll be preaching to the choir) or you can discuss it in Politics and Current Events (which many of us avoid, periodically or permanently, because of blood pressure issues as other posters have noted).

If you want to talk about gay fiction/nonfiction, QUILTBAG is probably the best place. Have at it.

If you want to talk about the craft of writing, that's not a gay/straight thang. It's a writing thing. It's what all of AW is about. No need for any of that to be limited to QUILTBAG.

If you want to talk about aspects of writing/being a writer that are peculiar to gay men, feel free to start new threads in QUILTBAG. If you feel the discussion on such threads is inadequate, well, you can't really command other AW members to join such a discussion. Maybe people aren't interested. Maybe they have other venues for such discussions.

Me, I mod a forum that focuses on lesbian writers and lesbian fiction, and that's where I discuss those issues. Perhaps there is something similar out there for gay male writers that might suit you? Like this place .

oh my god gayauthors.org on the surface that looks awesome how the heck did you find that? when I google "gay fiction" i got everything but gayauthors.org. Can't wait to look at this. Thank you very much.

The "lesbian writers and lesbian fiction" troubles me. Once again thats women only which goes right to my point. definitely women gather and discuss so its pretty inevitable gay women will do so as well. the organizing of males exclusively has been so demonized as male chauvinistic and discriminatory against women, that men are trained to avoid doing so. The best men can hope for is to be included in co-ed gay forums.

I'm not sure if gayauthors.org includes such co-ed forums for discussion but I sure hope so. I'm certainly going to investigate the site thanks again.



Unimportant, I think I'm after "The International Gay Writer's Guild". I'm after "Blah Blah Lake, a retreat for gay people (of both sexes)" I'm after gay writer's groups. I'm after "a show case of gay writers at the blah blah writer's Center" Not lesbian writers for any of the above. Gay and Lesbian writers for any of the above. I'm after gay literature with topics outside of the gay stereotypes. I'm after the "Gay Memoir Project"
I'm after gay forums where people provide anecdotes of the small moments in their lives where they remember its great to be gay, where its great to be married and other gay people bounce off that.

I think we've conceded AW doesn't ahve much action in that regard and thats fine, since it is a writing forum and we should concentrate on writing. Fair enough and thats correct.

But all the examples I give two paragraphs above are institutional examples of how other minority writers organize and share and network as writers. And those minority retreats, those minority organizations are seeing a lot of action.

Thats what I'm after. Not political action where we're chasing monetary benefits equal to the monetary benefits of straight people. I know we're already doing that.

I mean sharing our assimilation with each other, emotional networking with each other the way other minorities, through blogging, through conferencing, through retreats, through organizations acknowledge and treasure our unique gay identity.

Thats what I'm after.
 

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The "lesbian writers and lesbian fiction" troubles me. Once again thats women only which goes right to my point. definitely women gather and discuss so its pretty inevitable gay women will do so as well.
Why does it trouble you? Lesbian fiction is a niche market. Its readership is almost wholly lesbian. The majority of it is written by lesbians. Who else would want to discuss writing lesbian fiction other than writers of lesbian fiction? The forum isn't 'women only'. Its membership includes men and women who write lesbian fiction, and gay, straight, trans, and bi readers of lesbian fiction.
 
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Unimportant, I think I'm after "The International Gay Writer's Guild". I'm after "Blah Blah Lake, a retreat for gay people (of both sexes)" I'm after gay writer's groups. I'm after "a show case of gay writers at the blah blah writer's Center" Not lesbian writers for any of the above. Gay and Lesbian writers for any of the above.

Well, then, volunteer to write or review for Lambda Literary. Attend their Writers Retreat for Emerging LGBT Voices -- it's been an annual event since 2007, I think. Attend the Saints and Sinners Festival, and if you see Steve Berman there, give him a kiss for me. Read the Gay and Lesbian Review. Subscribe to the White Crane Journal or Educe Journal or Chelsea Station or Plentitude Magazine or T(OUR) Magazine. Go to the National Conference on LGBT Equality. Check out the GLBT Forum. Go through the Calls for Submissions at QLit. FFS, mate, it's all out there. Put your hand up and get involved.
 
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I'm guessing based on the tenor of your posts that you've only recently figured yourself out or come out. Good for you. Of course, that's what you're going to be thinking about, all the time.

But not every gay or lesbian person feels the need to see the world through the "gay filter", and more than I see the world through a "blonde filter" or a "woman filter" (except when I actively see discrimination for any of those reasons, sure.) We have a group here for discussion of QUILTBAG issues, but for most of us, our networks of friends or other discussion groups are plenty when we feel the need to let off steam or chat about our issues. Not lesbian issues. MY issues. I save "Holy shit I can't believe I made out with that girl last night" discussions for my friends, not a public writing board.

My biggest issues as a lesbian? Paying the bills on time. What to make for dinner. My fucking deadlines.

I know you don't handle criticism well, so fair warning, but I've seen a lot of self-centered posts from you. We don't have the gay-focused community here that you seem to be seeking, but complaining to us about it isn't going to change that. You didn't just bring it up for discussion, you whined... repeatedly. Even after you acknowledged your own whining tone.

Also, women are not a minority. Please stop referring to us as such. We're half the world, bro.
 

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Unimportant, this is a dumb question, but how does one register for lesbianfiction.org? I can't seem to find anywhere to create an account.

The "lesbian writers and lesbian fiction" troubles me. Once again thats women only which goes right to my point. definitely women gather and discuss so its pretty inevitable gay women will do so as well. the organizing of males exclusively has been so demonized as male chauvinistic and discriminatory against women, that men are trained to avoid doing so. The best men can hope for is to be included in co-ed gay forums.

Um, did you just play the "evil feminists are oppressing men" card? And imply that there still aren't huge problems with men excluding women from all sorts of spaces? And did you just seriously claim that gay men don't have any male-centric spaces? *mind boggles*

I don't know if you realize how you're coming across, but that's what it sounds like.
 

mscelina

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The "lesbian writers and lesbian fiction" troubles me. Once again thats women only which goes right to my point. definitely women gather and discuss so its pretty inevitable gay women will do so as well. the organizing of males exclusively has been so demonized as male chauvinistic and discriminatory against women, that men are trained to avoid doing so. The best men can hope for is to be included in co-ed gay forums.

Um...lesbian writers/fiction is identified like that because the last thing a gay man wants to read, most likely, is a book intended for a lesbian readership and vice versa. There's no demonizing going on here-anymore than when at the book store you have the gardening books clustered together in one section and the romance novels in another.
Stop looking for new ways to be victimized. It really isn't all about making who you are into a downtrodden minority. I promise.

My best advice to you, Timmy, is to stop thinking of AW as a source of entertainment which caters to your tastes and preferences. AW is a writers community. That's its primary focus, and despite the large number of GLBT authors AW is not a gay-only site. I'm not sure what age you are, but maybe consider RL interaction--volunteer in an anti-bullying group for young adults, or do volunteer work at a local hospice. Give time to an area gay rights organization. Find a way to channel this need for recognition into something productive and beneficial, like helping others go through the same things you've already successfully gone through. You've achieved milestones in a very short period of time that some folks took decades to reach. Sharing your story may help others, and may expedite their own process.

In other words, and with a very bad Shakespearean nod: Render therefore unto Absolute Write the things which are Absolute Write's; and unto gay pride the things that are gay pride's.

Shakespeare. Such a handy dude.
 

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THE BLUEBERRY QUEEN OF HADES (he/him)
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I've noticed, like others, the ebb and flow of activity in QUILTBAG, which is probably part of the normal lifespan of any online forum. While it's great that it's here, I pop in on occasion to see if there's anything I haven't seen elsewhere. Once in a while, I'll post something a bit QUILTBAG-centric here but like others, I tend to discuss my writing more out on the larger boards. As much as I'd like to reach gay men with my writing, I can't ignore the general reading audience. I'd be a fool if I did (and my editor would give me That Look).

As far as "no gurlz alowed" space goes, there are plenty of groups that focus on gay men and their interests. Several people have already mentioned to get out to find them and do stuff. If you're in a larger metropolitan area, there are tons of hobby/special interest groups that could help you cultivate interests outside of AW; we're only a small part of the world out there.
 
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