The No News is No News Purgatory Thread, Vol. 7

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Red-Green

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I suspect getting a degree in creative writing with an eye towards being a writer would be more practical than getting a degree in archaeology with an eye towards working at a university.

HAHAHAHAHAHA! *cough* Uh, anyway, I think of the creative writing degree as the "joy in the work" degree. I had three years of joy in writing and talking about writing and so on. Then I went out and got a job. Now, the dream of being a writer who earns enough to pay the bills, it is not dead, but 15 years out from my creative writing degree, I acknowledge that it in no significant way really trained me to be a writer. Or made me more likely to sell a book. So... take that for what it's worth.
 

mayqueen

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Thanks for the welcome. :)

welcome may!

congrats on your getting a doctorate
in sociology! i've always wanted a phd.
(probably not in sociology.)
but that's a dream i never
pursued. but i've always been a little
envious of my friends who have.

OMG, academia as a practical job? Maybe more in sociology than archaeology! I suspect getting a degree in creative writing with an eye towards being a writer would be more practical than getting a degree in archaeology with an eye towards working at a university (there are plenty of private jobs in archaeology, though, which is where the "practical" comes in).

Re writing and my own personal journey therewith (hi Rick!): I'm slowly recovering from my failed R&R, and figuring out where to go next. I still have some material out, so we'll see. But I am VERY VERY glad that I did not go into this with the "dream" of being a published writer. I just wanted to write a book - a book that I liked. And that, I have done.

To me, enjoying the day to day is the most important thing, always.

Yeah it's not exactly a practical job, xiaotien and FruitTree. It's stressful and awful and some of the hardest work I've ever done. (And that doesn't touch living on the paltry stipend!) But my practical real-world feet on the ground dream has always been to get my PhD and do research and teaching. Whether I get a job when I get done is of course completely up in the air. I try not to think about it! The market is so tough right now and it depends so much on your connections and how prestigious your school and your mentor are.

But I love you attitude, FruitTree. I stopped writing my first three years in grad school. I'd like to get published, but really my dream is just to write. I love it, even when it is hard and frustrating. So no matter what, I am just happy to write. I have to make myself remember that with all of the rejection and the frustration.
 

Haupe

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Welcome back, chan. Don't think we've met. You likely left as I arrived.

Hello, mayqueen. *waves*

Re Roth: from what I understood, he was out in public and approached in his own free time, and his comments were general, rather than specific to that one author. He sounded wry, honest, and tired. I don't have any trouble with what he said. I personally adore irascible, honest people who've had a good run of it, and I'd rather hang around them than the people who give faux-fuzzy pep talks. But that's me.

It would be different if he were giving a commencement speech to a crowd of MFAs, or had offered to read that young man's book and then told him he had no hope.

The challenge for me, with writing, is to hang onto the intrinsic rewards and not let them be co-opted or stolen by the extrinsic ones. I'm not so good at that, which is why I've been quiet and pondering of late. My hope is that I have a pre-career hump that makes the intra-career ones seem conquerable and less significant.

Hey, it could happen. ;)
 

Blondchen

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i think i've asked this before, blondie.

but which is more so: opera singing
and performance or publishing?

Hands down, no contest.

Opera.

The criticism is even more brutal. The personal attacks, more cutting. The money you sink into your training, astronomically higher. The ability to pursue it as a career while simultaneously trying to make a living, frequently impossible. And the odds of being able to make a living as a performing singer, so ridiculously low it's almost laughable.
 

chan

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Hi, Haupe!! Nice to meet you!

I will say, at least with writing, risk is somewhat low. It doesn't cost anything to start writing and I'm thankful it's a dream that can be pursued without an investment of capital. I'd be much more scared to go to my fiance and say, I want to open up a bakery--or something.

But, as we've discussed, time is precious and it's certainly a sacrifice away from friends and family to make time to write.
 

xiaotien

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chan, that is exactly it.
everyone really can try to write a book.

so it does flood the market in a way.

but again, more likely to be able to
earn $ than opera singer. but still
hard to achieve!

but i said this recently tl someone
and i think it's true: anything worth
getting and keeping in life is hard.
you *have* to work at it. for me, it
is my marriage, my family, my
writing & my physical, mental &
emotional health.

this ALL takes work.

haupe, so sorry you find it hard
to separate the two. it would def
be hard for me to write i couldnt.
*hugs & choccie croissant*
 

Red-Green

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Hands down, no contest.

Opera.

The criticism is even more brutal. The personal attacks, more cutting. The money you sink into your training, astronomically higher. The ability to pursue it as a career while simultaneously trying to make a living, frequently impossible. And the odds of being able to make a living as a performing singer, so ridiculously low it's almost laughable.

Plus, if you think about the fact that the average American reads only one book per year, that looks like a mountain of books compared to how many operas the average American attends per year. Hahaha! Did I say that? (I'm personally astounded that I've been to at least a dozen operas in my life, and I like opera.)
 

mayqueen

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Maybe opera needs its own Breaking Pointe (she says sarcastically).

Wow, I just counted up the number of times I've been to the opera. Three! And all of them were Wagner. Hmmmm. That was unintentional. But the point is that I am clearly a book-reading and opera-going outlier.
 

Blondchen

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So if Red's been to a dozen opera performances, and May's been to three, assuming maybe ONE each was an A-list house like the Met (i.e., $150 average ticket price) and the rest were mid-level houses with say, an $80/ticket price, together, on opera in their lifetimes thus far, they've spent:

$1300

Now, how much do you think they've collectively spent on books?
 

Tasmin21

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I have contacts again.

My face is naked.

This is making my brain flail.

That is all.
 

kellion92

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Hi Mayqueen! Hi Chan! Welcome/welcome back, as the case may be.

I don't see anything wrong with what Roth said. As Haupe said, it was general advice, not a specific attack. If you don't want to hear what a grumpy old man has to say, don't interrupt him during his breakfast...
 

xiaotien

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i'm pretty sure i made with one
book more than i'll ever earn with
my brush painting as well. and when
i had finished my novel, i had put more
$ in as a student of art than writing.

now as a published author, i'm
sure i spend more $ on travel, cons,
swag etc than on art. but i still earned
more in the long run than as an artist.

admiteddly, i have never attended to
*attempted (SEE my brain??)
"go pro" in my art. but chances of
success there are also slim.

and i want to keep it as a hobby now,
besides. since i lost being able to
write without expectations.
 
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Dragonstar

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LOL...I didn't get the memo about no capital outlay. I paid for my website pretty soon after I finished the 1st draft of Book 1. Might have been silly, but I wanted to lock in my domain name and such. While I don't get much traffic, I'm pretty happy it's been up and running all this time. And now, with the podcast, I've put money into that as well (the artwork for my logo).

If I'm lucky, I'll make the money back from the book and if not...oh well. :)

And I agree with Blond. The performing arts are far more cutthroat and brutal.

Writing feels like a vacation compared to what I went through in Theatre. Especially after I went pro, I was working sometimes 16-18 hour days. I had loads of fun and didn't mind it at the time, but it was a very demanding lifestyle. I was either in rehearsal or performances almost all the time. In 8 years, I gave over 3000 performances and I was burned out by the end. I often taught a class or two to supplement my income, which wasn't great for stage in So. Cal. in those days.

Yep, I adore writing! Every single aspect of it. :) Even the hard stuff.

I haven't hit any operas recently, but I do go to the Theatre or see some of the Vegas shows.

ETA: :welcome: mayqueen
 
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NIYRAK

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Sorry, That's Classified...
... I would be terrified to see what counts as Opera where I live...

In other news EX actually did a nice thing today. He had to take off work to go to Dr and when he was finished and found out I had to take 7 yr old in to work with me he offered to come pick him up. :)
So, I got a whole day in at the office :D $$$

Have absolutely NOTHING PLANNED for tonight except attempting to write...
/life is goooood

*wishes she has some wine*
 

NIYRAK

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Sorry, That's Classified...
Would it be wrong if I went to sleep right now, just so I can wake up at 4 am and actually be in the mood to write...

I have so much trouble writing during the afternoon/daytime. My muse is so darn picky... I kinda wish I was one of those 'can write anywhere...anytime' people.

If it's not before dawn and my brain is fresh I can't concentrate enough... I get distracted with stuff...

...why yes, I am babbling...what of it? ;)
 

Leanan-Sidhe

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HE PASSED!!!!

Congratulations!!!!
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