Is High Fantasy Unbalanced without the Core Races?

Lythande · Aug 24, 2014

I'm sure the general advice is going to be "write whatever you want, anything can work", but I thought I'd start a discussion anyway.

So in high fantasy (I'm not familiar with or terribly interested in anything remotely urban so am not qualified to discuss it) I feel like the intelligent races exist in a sort of balance, with the natural elves, industrial dwarves, mechanical gnomes, and rural halflings all being counterpoint to one another and to the adaptable humans. Do you think a world gets unbalanced when you remove some of the races and keep others? Halflings and gnomes feel like optional extras, but it seems like elves, dwarves, and humans are the real core races.

And then there are of course the standard evil races, goblins, orcs, and sometimes dragons, with various monsters.

For myself, I don't like the dwarf or halfling archetypes and feel like any story time spent on them is wasted, and I loathe gnomes. (Reason: I probably read LotR too many times in elementary and middle school, so to me gunpowder is the end of fantasy. I cannot stand mechanical things in my fantasy.) I also don't like the idea of an "evil race".

In creating my world I have merrily discarded three core and all of the evil races. I have (all called by different names, but simplified when I talk about them) nine-ish races of elves or half-elves to fill out the world, highly specialized to their environments; vampires, angels, and countless races of demons, all of whom differ from humans primarily in their magic/natural abilities; a race of sentient cats; and a variety of animal-people I may discard because they feel unimportant. [SUB][Disclaimer: I know that's a lot of races of people. Many of them aren't important, but I like knowing they're there.][/SUB] More to the point, not a single one of them fills any of the gnome/halfling/dwarf niches. No industrial alcoholic warrior-miners, quaint little country people, or kooky progressive types.

I've ended up with a world that I like, but I can't shake the feeling I'm doing the world a self-indulgent disservice by throwing away core races just because I don't like them, so I'm wondering how other people feel about the idea of elf-but-no-dwarf or dwarf-but-no-elf fantasy.

Alessandra Kelley · Aug 24, 2014

But those races aren't core races to fantasy; they are core races to Dungeons and Dragons.

High fantasy existed long before Tolkien invented Hobbits (termed "halflings" in later editions of D&D to hide blatant copyright violations, the same way Tolkien-invented Ents became "Treants"). A particular list of species and its ecosystem is not a requirement of high fantasy, so far as I can tell.

Even the sense of the balance of those races comes from the influence of roleplaying games. There are far more varied and interesting interpretations of gnomes, elves, goblins, and dwarves out there than the current popular distillation.

So yes, do write what you need to, and don't feel bound by someone else's recipe for what ingredients high fantasy must contain.

lilyWhite · Aug 24, 2014

Uh...there are a lot of high fantasy stories that don't have many or any of those races. They're not "core" to anything.

You're also defining races entirely by cliches. There's many works where goblins, orcs, and dragons aren't merely "evil races", with many heroic characters from these races. There's nothing that says that dwarves, halflings, or gnomes must have any sort of "mechanical things", technology that surpasses that of the other races.

Likewise, it isn't "self-indulgent" to write about whatever you want to write about. Unless you're me, with sirens. X3 You can include whatever races you desire. You can tweak classic races to your heart's content, or you can make up whatever new ones you want. Writers have been doing this for dozens of years in high fantasy.

In the end, all people will care about is if they find your world and your story interesting.

sohalt · Aug 24, 2014

Unbalanced? Not if you make all races adaptable, which feels less contrived anyway. Adaptability has never been a trait restricted to humans outside of fantasy.

Mr Flibble · Aug 24, 2014

natural elves, industrial dwarves, mechanical gnomes, and rural halflings

This only works if they're all clones of each other with the same talents and desires - stereotypes instead of characters.

Thirding (?) this sounds like RPGs not fantasy books. Most of which do not have elves/dwarves etc.

AVS · Aug 24, 2014

We manage on Earth with only one sentient race... the mice.
(Nah dolphins too).

No need to have core races for High Fantasy; a number of books do not feature the Tolkien/D&D munch bunch at all.

If you want talking rocks that have a special interest in raising pedigree books then go for it.

Myrealana · Aug 24, 2014

It doesn't make a lot of sense that any race of creatures is monolithic in its interests anyway.

Use whatever races suit your story, and have them made up of people (or sentient trees or talking badgers or whatever) who have hope and dreams and cultures of their own. They will fill out the world quite nicely.

waylander · Aug 24, 2014

I think you need to widen your fantasy reading. I do not recognise your 'core races' as fundamental to high fantasy, only to one small corner of it.

Alexys · Aug 24, 2014

As several people have said, you need to broaden your reading. I've never seen a mechanized gnome in any novel not based on a gaming universe (actually, I can only think of one author who uses gnomes at all, and hers do not fit your description in any way), and I've seen hobbit-alikes only once, in a setting that was explicitly Middle Earth with the serial numbers filed off (because the Tolkien estate refused the author permission to use the original).

Elves and dwarves are popular, I think, because their mythological ancestors were well-known, widespread, and possibly speak to some part of the human psyche. They're not in any way required to be present in a fantasy novel, and I've certainly seen elves-but-no-dwarves before.

MattW · Aug 24, 2014

"Balance" and "core race" are terms that heavily signify D&D gaming and derived fiction.

High fantasy tends to have them because they always have. I'm sure there are examples that don't, but I mostly come up with Epic instead of High when I try to think about it.

Filigree · Aug 24, 2014

Other people have weighed in already, but I have to add this: you may be better served by avoiding those tropes or reworking them. High fantasy does not have to be clones of D&D, Dragonlance, and Tolkien. By making your own versions with their own quirks, you can open up the possibility of unique worldbuilding.

Definitely read more modern stuff and classic fantasy.

rwm4768 · Aug 24, 2014

Do whatever you want. It's your story. I'd suggest you read more high fantasy that doesn't contain any of these races, or that contains new races. You don't have to use these races just because they're there. In fact, fantasy is moving away from these races.

If you're set on the races you're using, use your creativity to figure out how to get them into balance. Your dwarves don't have to be like everyone else's. Your elves don't have to be like everyone else's. It's fantasy. You get to make the rules.

MartinV · Aug 24, 2014

I'm building a setting where I took the typical Tolkien-esque setting, including the races, and began making tweaks to my fancy. Thus, elves are no longer graceful balerinas whose breath smells of flowers but dirt-grubbing, spear-wielding forest dwellers. My halflings are originally desert-dwellers, who have come to richer pastures looking for paradise and in fact built one for themselves.

Roxxsmom · Aug 24, 2014

Why would it be unbalanced? One problem I always had with those standard high fantasy races is that they seem to be a substitute for the inclusion of diverse human groups and cultures, and they tend to encourage deterministic thinking. All orcs are evil, all dwarves are doughty fighters but greedy, all gnomes like to tinker. And in such stories, humans are often all from one group too, most often a Northern European style culture/race, and if other human cultures are mentioned at all, it's in a shallow way.

Not knocking down Tolkien and company, but I hope we've moved a bit beyond absolutist and Eurocentric world building by now.

Anyway, even if it is unbalanced, why would a believable world possess perfect balance? Does ours? Has ours at any time in history? A novel is not a computer game where you need to give a player a range of choices re carefully balanced character classes/races to play. I think one argument against the classic high fantasy world building is that it's unrealistically balanced.

Liosse de Velishaf · Aug 24, 2014

I also thought D&D/Fantasy RPG when seeing the title and your original post.

I concur with all the others. There's nothing "required" in fantasy, and certainly not RPG-style balance.

Lady Chipmunk · Aug 24, 2014

I am a huge gaming nerd, and I love D & D, but I am going to concur with others here. Unless your dream writing job is writing tie-in novels in the various worlds of D & D (and if so there's nothing wrong with that) then feel free to branch out and build your world as it best works for you.

In fact, I would heavily encourage it. The tropes you mention are pretty recognizable to Tolkien and D & D, so you have to be a truly exceptional writer to take them whole cloth and not seem derivative.

MrCasperTom · Aug 24, 2014

Roxxsmom said:
Why would it be unbalanced? One problem I always had with those standard high fantasy races is that they seem to be a substitute for the inclusion of diverse human groups and cultures, and they tend to encourage deterministic thinking. All orcs are evil, all dwarves are doughty fighters but greedy, all gnomes like to tinker. And in such stories, humans are often all from one group too, most often a Northern European style culture/race, and if other human cultures are mentioned at all, it's in a shallow way.

I agree with this quite a bit. In practice is actually comes out a fair bit. When I was planning my WIP and one of the 'races' involved in the back of my head I had that they would eventually be elves. Realistically, as it worked out, it made more sense for them just to be a different culture of humans then just make them elves for the sake of making them elves.

I'm of the firm belief that you shouldn't include something for the sake of including something. There's nothing wrong with putting elves into a story but, in reverse, forcing something to be elves because it means elves are included and therefore makes it 'more fantasy' is just counter-productive IMO.

JustSarah · Aug 24, 2014

Let's flip the question around, is there any reason you can't create your own creatures? Hope that helps.

Smiling Ted · Aug 24, 2014

Most of what I would have said has already been said as well, or better than, I could have done. Still, here are a few thoughts.

1. Your post never mentions an actual story. A lack of story is more problematic than a lack of dwarf.

2. You might have confused the setting of LoTR with some sort of natural ecological law. Rest assured, there is nothing inevitable or necessary about Tolkien's racial distribution.

3. A "lack of core races" isn't self-indulgent and it isn't a disservice to the world. However, thinking that one's work matters that much does smack of grandiosity, a character flaw to which all writer are liable, and which does none of us any good. There are only three novelists whose writing was actually a disservice to the world: Ayn Rand, Dan Brown, and Christopher Paolini.

4. To get a sense of just how wide-ranging and non-elf-dependent high fantasy is, you might check one of Wikipedia's lists of high fantasy novels, and start reading. (Although many books on the list are not strictly high fantasy.)

Go have fun, and best of luck.

CrastersBabies · Aug 24, 2014

Mechanical inventions are found in mythology. Homer described some interesting items. The god, Hephaestus (Vulcan) as well. Other metal-workers as well in Norse, Egyptian and Chinese mythologies. How "tinkering" became a gnomish thing probably has a LOT to do with Dungeons and Dragons and video games. It's just kind of where modern pop culture took that notion.

Same with elves being nature-loving and dwarves being miners. Tolkien had a lot to do with it, sure.

I think if you are talking about elves now, or gnomes, halflings, dwarves, orcs, half-orcs, etc., you're going to undoubtedly cross streams with modern D&D fantasy, Tolkien and whatnot. Even though dark elves were talked about in Norse mythology, I think most avid fantasy readers will equate dark elves with the Forgotten Realm Drizzt books. (Maybe not, but I see so many variations of "Drizzt" names when playing ANY game that has dark elves as a race.)

I think you're perfectly okay using whatever races you please, to be honest. I have no intention of using dwarves or elves or halflings in anything that I write. I do like your ideas about vampires and cat-people (though that has been seen a bit in video games--but for me, more cats = better!).

Blackmanga · Aug 24, 2014

not a single one of them fills any of the gnome/halfling/dwarf niches. No industrial alcoholic warrior-miners, quaint little country people, or kooky progressive types.

If you think thats a good thing than go ahead with it. If you think its a bad thing than add it to one of the races you do have. You have creative control. No one else.

I'm doing the world a self-indulgent disservice by throwing away core races just because I don't like them

Thats a very good reason not to have a race actually.

Jacob_Wallace · Aug 24, 2014

My first reaction to nine different races if elf was blech. But then I realized that's what humans are. So your two earthly races are human and elf, with lots of diversity for both (with vampires being modified humans and angels/demons from another dimension, right?). That actually makes a lot of sense and I like it.

CrastersBabies · Aug 24, 2014

Jacob_Wallace said:
My first reaction to nine different races if elf was blech. But then I realized that's what humans are. So your two earthly races are human and elf, with lots of diversity for both (with vampires being modified humans and angels/demons from another dimension, right?). That actually makes a lot of sense and I like it.

Yeah, me too. I mean, we have how many different cultures and colors represented on Earth? Nationalities? I imagine a big fantasy world can accommodate for a lot of different types of humans and elves and whatnot.

Roxxsmom · Aug 24, 2014

One thing I'm puzzled about is what high fantasy actually is. I've heard so many definitions, from fantasy with a very lofty, elevated narrative tone and an overarching theme of good versus evil, to fantasy that focuses on the doings of the noble and powerful (where the protagonist is an heir to the throne, or at least trying to get an heir back on his or her throne), to fantasy set in a quasi middle ages that contains the traditional mythological elements (like elves and so on), to simply being any fantasy set in a secondary world that is pre industrial.

If high fantasy actually requires the presence of elves and so on to be high fantasy, then so be it. But that doesn't mean there isn't a lot of other fantasy set in secondary, pre-industrial worlds that isn't high fantasy then.

The lack of traditional "high fantasy" elements certainly hasn't hurt George RR Martin any, nor has it hurt most of the writers who are writing secondary world fantasy today.

Write what you want to write, and if it's not classified as high fantasy, so be it. It will be in good company.

Liosse de Velishaf · Aug 25, 2014

Roxxsmom said:
One thing I'm puzzled about is what high fantasy actually is. I've heard so many definitions, from fantasy with a very lofty, elevated narrative tone and an overarching theme of good versus evil, to fantasy that focuses on the doings of the noble and powerful (where the protagonist is an heir to the throne, or at least trying to get an heir back on his or her throne), to fantasy set in a quasi middle ages that contains the traditional mythological elements (like elves and so on), to simply being any fantasy set in a secondary world that is pre industrial.

If high fantasy actually requires the presence of elves and so on to be high fantasy, then so be it. But that doesn't mean there isn't a lot of other fantasy set in secondary, pre-industrial worlds that isn't high fantasy then.

The lack of traditional "high fantasy" elements certainly hasn't hurt George RR Martin any, nor has it hurt most of the writers who are writing secondary world fantasy today.

Write what you want to write, and if it's not classified as high fantasy, so be it. It will be in good company.

You don't need elves to be high fantasy. It's basically just fantasy that plays to its roots in mythology and the heroic epics. So GGK's Fionava Tapestry has no elves, but is high fantasy because it follows the traditions of LOTR and Shannara, etc. The Earthsea books are high fantasy, though they lack most of the traditional elements. Dragonlance is the more D&D Tolkien clone style of high fantasy, but that style is only one of several.

Is High Fantasy Unbalanced without the Core Races?

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