Permission to use song lyrics in book?

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Chacounne

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Another rights question

Hi All,

This probably belongs on the non-fiction forum, but since we are discussing publishing rights, I thought I would ask.(Jenna, I will gladly move this if you like.) I am writing, or more acurately compiling, a book on medieval children that will be in the form of a sourcebook, with the portion of text or photograph of the painting or object on the top of the page, and my comments in a box under it or on a facing page. I assume that I will have to get permission for each of the texts I use, unless they are transcribed by me from the original period manuscript or book. What should I do about the texts that were published by publishers who have gone out of business, or are otherwise unfindable? I already know I need permission for the photographs of the paintings and objects, so that will be taken care of.

Thanks for any advice,
Chacounne
 

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Chacounne said:
I assume that I will have to get permission for each of the texts I use, unless they are transcribed by me from the original period manuscript or book. What should I do about the texts that were published by publishers who have gone out of business, or are otherwise unfindable? I already know I need permission for the photographs of the paintings and objects, so that will be taken care of.

First, you need to make a good faith effort to find the rights holder, which means writing/faxing lots of places, and keeping copies of everything so you can prove due diligence.

Secondly, usually when a publisher goes out of business, someone gets the rights. Reference librarians are divine entities, and you should honor them with offerings, sacrifices and libations, because they will help you. Sometimes you'll notice a credit in a book that indicates that the text/image are after / from but could not be located; use this with extreme caution, and be ready to truly exhaust all avenues.

Thirdly, it's more than likely you can find an alternative source for medieval texts. Indeed, your publisher will likely be able to offer your guidance about which texts you must obtain permissions for.

Fourthly, images can be expensive. Museums will often want you to deal with a stock house/agent like Art Resource or Corbis, but the museum is often more reasonable in terms of pricing. This is particularly true of pre-1832 art.

Fifth, check out the Golf Book, the book of hours by Simon Bening at the British Museum.
 

katdad

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Spoke with my agent

I happened to be speaking with my agent yesterday, and so I asked him specifically about this topic. Here's what he told me ---

If you're a writer, you yourself don't need to concern yourself too much about using a quatrain of lyrics, but be sure to have a fall-back in case the use of the lyrics poses a problem.

Your publisher is the one who will be concerned with this (as I had stated). When your book is purchased and you begin the editing phase, let the publisher know the situation: That you've used lyrics to set up a theme or whatever.

The publisher's legal folks may ask you right away to change the quote into an indirect reference, which is why you need to envision a fall-back and not make the quote absolutely integral to the book.

But most publishers will understand and go with the flow. If so, the publisher will then make an attempt to gain release of the lyrics. For a small quoted excerpt (4-6 lines) this is usually perfunctory, and most songwriters (or whomever holds the copyright) are glad to do this if you put an attribution in the front, but some songwriters are very picky and may say "no". In that case you'll need your Plan B.

So, the summary: Go ahead and include the lyrics, but have a fall-back alternative in case there's a problem. But don't worry yourself about the legalities at this stage -- that's part of your publisher's vetting procedure.
 

Jaws

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:Lecture: As Uncle Jim noted, fair use is a defense, not a right. Under § 107 of the Copyright Act, one must consider four independent factors in deciding whether a particular usage is "fair" or not:
  1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
  2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
  3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
  4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
No one factor is supposed to predominate, although courts have a disappointing tendency to conflate 1 and 4 (or at least evaluate 1 and 4 from exactly the same evidence).
In any event, the following guidelines are pretty standard throughout the industry. That is, if you exceed them, you'll need to get permission; if you don't, you may still not be safe.
  • Any use of more than 300 words of prose, or 10% of the complete work (whichever is smaller), requires permission.
  • Any use of more than 10% of an image requires permission, and color images always require permission. This holds even when the image may not be copyrightable subject matter (such as, for example, a photograph of a public-domain painting that does nothing more than make the best technically possible copy of the painting).
  • Poetry and verse will generally allow not more than a couplet (not a quatrain) without at least explicit acknowledgement. Further, this couple should not include either a proper name or the title of the piece.
All of that said, it's not as hard as one might think to get permissions. I highly recommend Richard Stim's Getting Permission for more guidance, including sample documents and permission forms and letters.
 

Fictionalizer

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Getting Permission Resource

underthecity said:
Thanks everyone for the replies. I understood that song lyrics were subject to copyright and I would need permission to use them, and possibly pay a fee. My only issue is how to go about doing that part.
underthecity

:idea: There is an excellent web site which simplifies copyright, patent and trademarks called nolo.com . I purchased a book from them called "Getting Permission." In plain English, it details the steps necessary to use copyrighted material.

Their web site has a wealth of information on all types of legal issues. I purchased a book bundle called The Writer's Bundle. It includes Getting Permission, The Public Domain and The Copyright Handbook. I have two businesses, writing and graphic design, and these books are great for both. The Copyright Handbook is basically for writers though.
 
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Fictionalizer

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"Fair Use" Definition on Nolo.com

Use the search engine at Nolo to find the legal definition of "Fair Use." Toggle the button under the search engine and select the Search Glossary option.

"Fair Use" means using copyrighted works for educational purposes.

I am a graphic artist, designer and signmaker as well as a writer. Last year I had a client who insisted anything online is "Fair Use." I refused to use the artwork he found through a search engine. [The search engine had thousands of jpegs from the www]. He had planned to use the artwork for every part of his business; signs, business cards, letterheads and a web site. I suggested he get permission AND I informed the artist about my client. In the end, my client had to purchase the artwork and rights from both the artist and the business which owned it. The client and I would have been sued if I used that artwork for signs and business cards.

With copyright, ignorance is no longer bliss. You can and will get sued for using copyrighted materials without permission. And when you do get permission follow the "rights for use" to the letter.
 

Fictionalizer

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Jaws said:
All of that said, it's not as hard as one might think to get permissions. I highly recommend Richard Stim's Getting Permission for more guidance, including sample documents and permission forms and letters.
Ditto!

I just saw your post. I wrote the same recommendation. I got Nolo's, The Writer's Bundle, good information for a reasonable price.
 

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Egad but this I have to say.

I write novels right now based on a song. And I research the lines to put what I write in the novel. I do my own poetry. Now I sent off to one recording artist for his permission to use a song. That is why I have not applied for the copyright. If he does not give it I will not post even a single line from it. Songs are protected by copyright and they last for seventy years. If you print say in a church songbook a song for the choir to sing you are subject to having the US marhals come in an confinscate all the music. I saw this happen twice. The object it that you ask for written permission and go down to the section on the copyright that asks for deriviative work and list even if is only one line. Now egad this is one thing that PublishAmerica did point out. Then I wrote my own poem to introduce the chapter and everyone said that they liked mine better than some lines from the poem. So maestro and Jim are correct on this.
 

three seven

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Tell you what, tracking down the copyright owner can be a real task, huh? Especially when the writer's dead, the publisher doesn't exist any more and the parent company's a hulking great multinational. I might actually have to go knocking on doors... :(
 

wurdwise

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Jaws said:
:Lecture: As Uncle Jim noted, fair use is a defense, not a right. Under § 107 of the Copyright Act, one must consider four independent factors in deciding whether a particular usage is "fair" or not:
  1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
  2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
  3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
  4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
No one factor is supposed to predominate, although courts have a disappointing tendency to conflate 1 and 4 (or at least evaluate 1 and 4 from exactly the same evidence).
In any event, the following guidelines are pretty standard throughout the industry. That is, if you exceed them, you'll need to get permission; if you don't, you may still not be safe.
  • Any use of more than 300 words of prose, or 10% of the complete work (whichever is smaller), requires permission.
  • Any use of more than 10% of an image requires permission, and color images always require permission. This holds even when the image may not be copyrightable subject matter (such as, for example, a photograph of a public-domain painting that does nothing more than make the best technically possible copy of the painting).
  • Poetry and verse will generally allow not more than a couplet (not a quatrain) without at least explicit acknowledgement. Further, this couple should not include either a proper name or the title of the piece.
All of that said, it's not as hard as one might think to get permissions. I highly recommend Richard Stim's Getting Permission for more guidance, including sample documents and permission forms and letters.


Wow, this thread is like a bucket of cold water thrown in my face, but I'm thinking I'm going to use the above info and be done with worrying about it. My middle reader has a few lines of song lyrics from Evanescense, and it says so before they play, a line by Fantasio Barrino from Summertime, also noted, I say Dumpster diving, which is a trademark, I say one of my characters favorite oldies is When the Doves Cry by Prince, I have two pages of info I say on PBS by Wayne Dyer in his "The Power of Intention" program, which I didn't quote verbatim and didn't mention his name, though I did say it was on Channel 13, let's see, what else, I talked about Sylvester Stallone and how all the Rambo movies suck, I have her best friend playing Doom on his computer. Boy oh boy, if it ain't one thing, it's another.
 

three seven

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Well you can't copyright a title and you can't be sued for mentioning a trademark unless you libel/slander it so I wouldn't worry too much about that...
 

wurdwise

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I would like to hear thoughts about using the rules of thumb Jaws posted. Will I be safe?
 

wurdwise

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And jaws, where in those guidelines are song lyrics covered?
 

PattiTheWicked

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wurdwise said:
Wow, this thread is like a bucket of cold water thrown in my face, but I'm thinking I'm going to use the above info and be done with worrying about it. My middle reader has a few lines of song lyrics from Evanescense, and it says so before they play, a line by Fantasio Barrino from Summertime, also noted, I say Dumpster diving, which is a trademark, I say one of my characters favorite oldies is When the Doves Cry by Prince, I have two pages of info I say on PBS by Wayne Dyer in his "The Power of Intention" program, which I didn't quote verbatim and didn't mention his name, though I did say it was on Channel 13, let's see, what else, I talked about Sylvester Stallone and how all the Rambo movies suck, I have her best friend playing Doom on his computer. Boy oh boy, if it ain't one thing, it's another.

Rather than quote the actual lyrics, why not make a reference to the song that doesn't include quoting? Here's a paragraph from my WIP:

"I could tell Alexia was up in her room, because Green Day was blasting through the ceiling. I skipped up the stairs and knocked on the door.

"Hey!" she said, happy to see me. Billie Joe Armstrong sang about having the time of his life, and I flopped down on Lexi's bed."

No verbatim quoting, not even the name of the song. Simply a reference that people who are familiar with contemporary music will get.
 

wurdwise

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I am wondering if three is asking are you sure that's the right singer, or are you sure that by saying the singers name and part of the words, it isn't still a copyright infringement. I gotta get this stuff right, we all do.
 

three seven

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No, it was an off-topic remark about the meaning of the song. He's actually saying "I hope you had the time of your life."

Denise, I'm wondering about the tone of your previous two posts. There are two ways I could answer them, and obviously I wouldn't want to choose the wrong one... ;)
 

wurdwise

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Sorry, I didn't know it (my azz) was showed.

How about this? Hey, if anyone can help pin this down, wouldn't it be great for us all ?:LilLove:
 
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Note On

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In one of my other lives, I'm a musician and ASCAP member. I want to clarify something that may or may not matter to anyone. Or maybe I'm muddling the issue further.

I've seen the songwriter referred to as though that's the person whose permission you need. The songwriter may not be the entity you're looking for. The entity (or entities) you want, if you're trying to use lyrics, is/are whoever owns the copyright to the lyrics. In many cases, this will be what's referred to as "the publisher," which means something different in music than it does in writing. In any case, you can't know what kind of entity will turn out to hold the copyright. Don't assume it's a songwriter.

ASCAP allows multiple entities to own various slices of the various copyrights associated with a piece of music. For example, the lyric may be owned by several people who collaborated on it, and who may share equally or unequally in any royalties. It may also be owned or co-owned by a production company, whose contract with the artist gave the company that ownership. It may also be owned by some weird person who shouldn't own it, because the songwriter was stupid and signed away rights.

(And the musical composition may be owned by completely different people from those who own the lyrics, or the same people, or some overlap with some different percentage of royalties assigned.)

It's complex, mostly because there's no set way of doing it. Bottom line is that the easiest place to start is probably the performing rights organization that you see mentioned on the back of the CD. In the US, this will probably be either ASCAP or BMI. In Europe, it may be SESAC. Those organizations should have the information you need. At the very least, they should have contact information for SOMEBODY who's associated with the song in some meaningful way.

It is also incorrect that reproducing a quatrain constitutes "fair use." That's just "use"; and as with all use of copyrighted material, there may or may not be an objection by the copyright holder, but you can't know until you ask permission.

Or--if you don't ask permission--until they sue you.
 
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chawil

???

This whole discussion seems insane. Surely you can quote from any work so long as you identify the author and your quote is part of a legitimate original work. Song lyrics are freely available for download on the internet so why all the fuss? It isn't as if you're making a recording of the song or offering the lyrics for sale as lyrics.

If this is the case then any quote from any work, including prose and poetry, should be cleared AND paid for if used by anyone, in which case things would become very sticky indeed, particularly for critics, academics and students who have quote published copyrighted material extensively.
 

FredCharles

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Thanks for asking this question. I've been considering using song lyrics in my novel for awhile, but after reading all of the responses, it doesn't seem worth the effort. I'd just as soon write my own.

Thanks!
 

Shara

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underthecity, if you have a publisher, then they can probably help you get the necessary permission.

As has already been stated, you need permission to quote song lyrics - without permission, you could be entering a litigation nightmare.

I had to do this myself a few years ago when I had a short story accepted for publication that contained two lines of a Jim Hedrix song. The publisher was a UK semi-pro magazine, and they said I needed permission before they could print. So, I set about finding out who owned the copyright on the song, and contacted them. They wrote back saying they needed to know about the publisher, the print run etc, etc.

I supplied this info, and consquently got a letter back denying permission. I got the impression that had I been a famous writer with a print run of thousands worldwide, instead of a little short story writer whose story would be read by maybe a couple of hundred people in the UK, it would have been a different story. But them's the breaks, as they say. Permission was refused, and the publisher and I changed the story so I was paraphrasing the lyrics, not quoting verbatim, and that's fine.

Since then, though, I have a new respect for Stephen King, who's written a few novels with song lyrics scattered throughout. Much time and energy must have gone into getting permission for so many. But then he's Stephen King, and who's going to deny him permission?

Shara
 
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