Stoked about a premise, but would you be?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Demiansky

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
105
Reaction score
7
Location
Florida
So I'm writing my first real novel. I've come up with a premise that I'm wildly enthusiastic about. My fingers are on fire. I've written 60,000 words so far in 2 months and I've revised, what I've got thus far, more times than I can count. I'm having a blast, regardless of where it goes. However...

I have no idea whether the concept is interesting to anyone but myself. So I need some opinions.

The novel is called Sapiens and I'm squaring it up to fit not-so-neatly into the "Mainstream/Literary" genre. I'm quite adamant that Sapiens not be a work of science fiction. Nothing in Sapiens is beyond our current technology. So here is a basic, basic synopsis: the protagonist, Adam, is a Neanderthal cloned from the DNA of a 40,000 year old fossil. He is carried by a human surrogate until his birth and is raised from infancy by a host of scientists. At its roots, it is an exploration of the human condition through the eyes and mind of a non-human, raised in a world where his species no longer exists. He has vivid intellect that is wildly different than our own.

What do you think?
 
Last edited:

Wayne K

Banned
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
21,564
Reaction score
8,082
I don't know anything about what people like, but the fact that you love it is all that matters. If you love it long anough, and you work hard enough, maybe you'll get someone else to love it.

Whatever you do, keep at it.
 

Demiansky

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
105
Reaction score
7
Location
Florida
Sounds pretty cool to me. Find a critique group or trusted beta readers (not family) to see if it's interesting to others.

Yeah, you're telling me. Finding serious and meaningful criticism is not an easy thing. How abouts to I discover a "critique group" or "trusted beta readers?"
 

Kitty Pryde

i luv you giant bear statue
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
9,090
Reaction score
2,165
Location
Lost Angeles
Umm, that's a science fiction story. I hate to break it to you. We can't clone prehistoric humanoids from their DNA. And humans can't gestate non-humans, for numerous reasons. Thus making it by definition science fiction, which is in fact not a bad thing. And it sounds a little bit like "Stranger In A Strange Land" :)
 

Demiansky

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
105
Reaction score
7
Location
Florida
Umm, that's a science fiction story. I hate to break it to you. We can't clone prehistoric humanoids from their DNA. And humans can't gestate non-humans, for numerous reasons. Thus making it by definition science fiction, which is in fact not a bad thing. And it sounds a little bit like "Stranger In A Strange Land" :)

Well, excuse me but I think I need to set the science straight. We most certainly can clone a neanderthal and use a human surrogate to carry it to term. One of the reasons I'm writing it so feverishly is because I'm afraid someone WILL clone a neanderthal, then my fiction novel will become current events.

First off, I spent months at the Smithsonian Institution in D.C. and while there, I interviewed paleontologists for this story, all of whom suggested it was possible (I even snooped around through some old Neanderthal bones). Some of them I even based characters on. Also, one of my focuses in higher education Biological Anthropology: the study of human origins and related species, so I'm quite familiar with the subject. And third, Neanderthals were humankinds closest nearest relatives. Think of the difference between a red wolf and arctic wolf, and you'll have an idea of the relatedness between human an Neanderthals.

Right now, a formal attempt to clone a neanderthal would cost around 10 million dollars and would easily meet with success. We've sequenced an entire neanderthal genome. We share a common ancestor with Neanderthals a paltry 500,000 years ago. In other words, our DNA is very, very, very similar. We could have even bred successfully with them, though it would have created infertile offspring.

Thus, the procedure would simply involve removing human DNA from a human egg, adding Neanderthal DNA, and emplanting the embryo into a human surrogate (an abbreviated version). So yes, it's actually very plausable, which is why I don't want my novel lumped in with Marshans and talking squid. Don't get me wrong, I love the science fiction genre, but Science fiction very often has nothing to do with Science. I'm crafting Sapiens to be as true to science as possible. But Sapiens is not science fiction.

What I'm saying is that it would end up in the Fiction section at a Barnes and Noble, not Science Fiction. For instance, walk to your local bookstore and grab Jurassic Park off the shelf. Where did you find it? Not in science fiction. Cloning a species that is tens of millions of years extinct would be far, far more difficult than cloning a species tens of thousands of years extinct.

I know it sounds like I'm splitting hairs, but I'm not. The strength of the novel lies in it's plausability. I want readers to walk away from it with the understanding that human kind's ascent to high technology and high culture was not destined.
 
Last edited:

Chris P

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,616
Reaction score
7,294
Location
Wash., D.C. area
Sure, I'd be interested. My nerdy science background loves that sort of thing.
 

Chris P

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,616
Reaction score
7,294
Location
Wash., D.C. area
Yeah, you're telling me. Finding serious and meaningful criticism is not an easy thing. How abouts to I discover a "critique group" or "trusted beta readers?"

Teach me to not read all the posts before responding. There is a forum here called "Share you work" where you can post excerpts (most people keep it to under 2000 words). http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=26

There is also a section on where you can ask for betas http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30

Be sure to read the "Read this first" threads in each forum, and read several examples so you know what to expect. Everyone here wants you to succeed, but the input can be quite blunt (trust me! :) I've given and recieved)
 

Demiansky

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
105
Reaction score
7
Location
Florida
Teach me to not read all the posts before responding. There is a forum here called "Share you work" where you can post excerpts (most people keep it to under 2000 words). http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=26

There is also a section on where you can ask for betas http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30

Be sure to read the "Read this first" threads in each forum, and read several examples so you know what to expect. Everyone here wants you to succeed, but the input can be quite blunt (trust me! :) I've given and recieved)

Thanks Chris! Yeah, I noticed the "post your work" forums earlier and read through some other literature. I wanted to comment, but the admins hadn't given me access yet :)
 

CaroGirl

Living the dream
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
8,368
Reaction score
2,327
Location
Bookstores
I think at the heart of stories like this is not whether we can manipulate these aspects of science, but whether we should. It's the premise of novels from Frankenstein to A Brave New World to Jurassic Park.

Don't worry about classifying your novel into a genre at this stage. Just write it and let the marketing chips fall where they may when the time comes.
 

Kitty Pryde

i luv you giant bear statue
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
9,090
Reaction score
2,165
Location
Lost Angeles
Well, excuse me but I think I need to set the science straight. We most certainly can clone a neanderthal and use a human surrogate to carry it to term. One of the reasons I'm writing it so feverishly is because I'm afraid someone WILL clone a neanderthal, then my fiction novel will become current events.

First off, I spent months at the Smithsonian Institution in D.C. and while there, I interviewed paleontologists for this story, all of whom suggested it was possible (I even snooped around through some old Neanderthal bones). Some of them I even based characters on. Also, one of my focuses in higher education Biological Anthropology: the study of human origins and related species, so I'm quite familiar with the subject. And third, Neanderthals were humankinds closest nearest relatives. Think of the difference between a red wolf and arctic wolf, and you'll have an idea of the relatedness between human an Neanderthals.

Right now, a formal attempt to clone a neanderthal would cost around 10 million dollars and would easily meet with success. We've sequenced an entire neanderthal genome. We share a common ancestor with Neanderthals a paltry 500,000 years ago. In other words, our DNA is very, very, very similar. We could have even bred successfully with them, though it would have created infertile offspring.

Thus, the procedure would simply involve removing human DNA from a human egg, adding Neanderthal DNA, and emplanting the embryo into a human surrogate (an abbreviated version). So yes, it's actually very plausable, which is why I don't want my novel lumped in with Marshans and talking squid. Don't get me wrong, I love the science fiction genre, but Science fiction very often has nothing to do with Science. I'm crafting Sapiens to be as true to science as possible. But Sapiens is not science fiction.

What I'm saying is that it would end up in the Fiction section at a Barnes and Noble, not Science Fiction. For instance, walk to your local bookstore and grab Jurassic Park off the shelf. Where did you find it? Not in science fiction. Cloning a species that is tens of millions of years extinct would be far, far more difficult than cloning a species tens of thousands of years extinct.

I know it sounds like I'm splitting hairs, but I'm not. The strength of the novel lies in it's plausability. I want readers to walk away from it with the understanding that human kind's ascent to high technology and high culture was not destined.

Yeah, it's still science fiction. Science fiction isn't by definition implausible. Lots of science fiction is very plausible. It is about doing things with science that we can't do yet. And we can't clone a Neanderthal. We can't even clone a living person! And looking at the Neanderthal DNA suggests they are a separate species, not a subspecies, making gestating one in a human being pretty tricky. Again, it's a scientific idea that's not currently possible.

Jurassic Park is shelved in the "literature" section, but it's still science fiction. It made its way there by virtue of being an incredible popular bestseller with a blockbuster movie. If you're Margaret Atwood, you can write science fiction and claim that you have written a literary masterpiece untainted by the nerdly category of sci-fi. But it baffles me why you would want to write this story and presume that the audience that LIKES reading stories about what-ifs and not-quite-humans and clones and cavemen living in modern society is somehow NOT the audience for your novel.
 

defyalllogic

i'm a girl. (i have tendonitis)
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
1,431
Reaction score
135
Location
Massachusetts
It sounds like an interested concept to me. kind of like the Truman show but with a science twist. and a book.

would he know he's not human/different?
 

Don Allen

Seeking a Sanctuary of Intelligence
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
3,573
Reaction score
845
Location
Gilman, Illinois
I have a question. I read your premise and found it intriguing until I thought about a little, and realized that in effect the child born would not be much higher functioning than a mongoloid birth defect child born today, would it? You're not talking about an exceptional species, Neanderthal was primitive in both statue and intelligence. The questions raised would be why would scientists wish to reproduce such an inferior species, unless, and this is just supposition, unless the neanderthal possessed a gene trait that was needed by humans for survival. Otherwise you're recreating sort of a Neo-Rainman with out the virtue of natural selection. But I could be wrong...
 

Demiansky

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
105
Reaction score
7
Location
Florida
I have a question. I read your premise and found it intriguing until I thought about a little, and realized that in effect the child born would not be much higher functioning than a mongoloid birth defect child born today, would it? You're not talking about an exceptional species, Neanderthal was primitive in both statue and intelligence. The questions raised would be why would scientists wish to reproduce such an inferior species, unless, and this is just supposition, unless the neanderthal possessed a gene trait that was needed by humans for survival. Otherwise you're recreating sort of a Neo-Rainman with out the virtue of natural selection. But I could be wrong...

How curious you have mentioned this. Our most modern understanding of Neanderthals has shown that they were in fact just as smart as we were. Not only were their brains larger than ours, but they could likely speak fluently and had advanced cognition.

Now, that's not to say that Neanderthals had the same intelligence. My protagonist, Adam, is intelligent and self-aware, but his intelligence is quite different than ours. His learning mechanisms are more closely locked into context than humans. He is deeply emotional, but has a meagre mental infrastructure in regard to intuitively understanding social relationships (he has difficulty with adjective labels for other people.) In other words, he finds calculus easy but geneology and social interactions with strangers extremely taxing.

He has a supernatural ability to understand strategic scenarios when compared to anatomically modern Homo sapiens. In other words, he's a chess wizz. He thrives with information technology, but his mental acuity suffers when a problem involves unfamiliar faces.

Throughout the novel, he grapples with the public's perception that he is mentally challenged and sub-human. He is not afforded the legal rights of a human, either, thus fanatics are guning for him (they wouldn't be charged for murder, now would they?)

He never knows what it is he is feeling because his emotional infrastructure is different. He doesn't know whether what he is feeling toward a young woman is love or kinship affection.

Yes, most of these attributes are extrapolations, but they are extrapolations on what we know of the unique evolution of neanderthals.
 

Demiansky

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
105
Reaction score
7
Location
Florida
Yeah, it's still science fiction. Science fiction isn't by definition implausible. Lots of science fiction is very plausible. It is about doing things with science that we can't do yet. And we can't clone a Neanderthal. We can't even clone a living person! And looking at the Neanderthal DNA suggests they are a separate species, not a subspecies, making gestating one in a human being pretty tricky. Again, it's a scientific idea that's not currently possible

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but your science is just wrong. We can clone a human. Right now. We've cloned megafauna species in the droves, and they are no different than a human for the purposes of reproductive cloning. We can clone a Neanderthal. Right now. Is it dangerous? Yes. Is the method perfect? No.

Also, the scientific name of our species is Homo sapiens sapiens. The Scientific name of Neanderthal Homo sapiens neanderthalensis. While it is up for some debate in biological anthrology circles, they are leaning toward the former. If you've ever taken a course on speciation, you will know that the term "species" has many, many definitions and is not set in stone. Either way the distinction is very close regardless of what definition species assumes. I've read dozens and dozens of text books and scientific papers on the matter. I don't know what else to say.

I think you are confusing "has" with "can." We can clone a human. We can clone a Neanderthal. But we haven't, not due to scientific barriers or knowledge but due to social barriers. These social barriers, of course, are a very, very large part of my novel.
 
Last edited:

CaroGirl

Living the dream
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
8,368
Reaction score
2,327
Location
Bookstores
How curious you have mentioned this. Our most modern understanding of Neanderthals has shown that they were in fact just as smart as we were. Not only were their brains larger than ours, but they could likely speak fluently and had advanced cognition.

Now, that's not to say that Neanderthals had the same intelligence. My protagonist, Adam, is intelligent and self-aware, but his intelligence is quite different than ours. His learning mechanisms are more closely locked into context than humans. He is deeply emotional, but has a meagre mental infrastructure in regard to intuitively understanding social relationships (he has difficulty with adjective labels for other people.) In other words, he finds calculus easy but geneology and social interactions with strangers extremely taxing.

He has a supernatural ability to understand strategic scenarios when compared to anatomically modern Homo sapiens. In other words, he's a chess wizz. He thrives with information technology, but his mental acuity suffers when a problem involves unfamiliar faces.

Throughout the novel, he grapples with the public's perception that he is mentally challenged and sub-human. He is not afforded the legal rights of a human, either, thus fanatics are guning for him (they wouldn't be charged for murder, now would they?)

He never knows what it is he is feeling because his emotional infrastructure is different. He doesn't know whether what he is feeling toward a young woman is love or kinship affection.

Yes, most of these attributes are extrapolations, but they are extrapolations on what we know of the unique evolution of neanderthals.
Is this the Noble Savage I see before me?

Have you read William Golding's The Inheritors?
 

Chris P

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,616
Reaction score
7,294
Location
Wash., D.C. area
As per the points made by Don Allen and the following couple posts, there is some implied irony here. Most of the time the point of placing a non-human (alien, animal, semi-human) outsider into the human world is to say something about humanity rather than the non-human. See Animal Farm. The same is true of stories of a racial minority in a new society. See Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man.

Since we can't know the mental faculties of a cloned Neandertal, you as the writer will need to make some assumptions regarding any innate abilities. Remember, of course, that his experiences are shaped by the culture in which he is raised. I think drawing some cues from twin studies and reports of chimps and other such animals raised as humans would illustrate the nature vs nurture argument in a way that could give your book the "POW!" that will put it over the top. Perhaps you've already considered this. Would that we could meet up for coffee some afternoon! I love these types of conversations.
 

illiterwrite

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
708
Reaction score
139
Location
Toronto
I would be surprised if we couldn't clone a human. Can and will are two different things.

I think your premise sounds interesting. Just keep writing and worry about the rest when you've finished.
 

Don Allen

Seeking a Sanctuary of Intelligence
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
3,573
Reaction score
845
Location
Gilman, Illinois
Okay, I read your post and I have to be honest with you, the first thing that came to mind was a reversal of planet of the apes. Actually one of the sequels has the apes appearing in modern times and running into the same difficulties you describe. However don't be discouraged. Looking at it from that perspective makes more sense to me and in fact opens a ton of possibilities, so to answer you roriginal question, yes I'm interested.
 

Demiansky

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
105
Reaction score
7
Location
Florida
As per the points made by Don Allen and the following couple posts, there is some implied irony here. Most of the time the point of placing a non-human (alien, animal, semi-human) outsider into the human world is to say something about humanity rather than the non-human. See Animal Farm. The same is true of stories of a racial minority in a new society. See Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man.

Since we can't know the mental faculties of a cloned Neandertal, you as the writer will need to make some assumptions regarding any innate abilities. Remember, of course, that his experiences are shaped by the culture in which he is raised. I think drawing some cues from twin studies and reports of chimps and other such animals raised as humans would illustrate the nature vs nurture argument in a way that could give your book the "POW!" that will put it over the top. Perhaps you've already considered this. Would that we could meet up for coffee some afternoon! I love these types of conversations.

Yes, you hit the hammer on the head! This is exactly why my fingers have been on fire these past months. I interned at an evolutionary psychology lab during my undergraduate degree, and I've taken a lot of these concepts with me.

The protagonist, Adam, has evolve learning and thinking mechanisms that are quite different than our own, but they manifest themselves in a variety of interesting and peculiar ways when raised in the "information age." I would love to have a cup of coffee with you :)
 

Manuel Royal

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
4,484
Reaction score
437
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
Website
donnetowntoday.blogspot.com
I don't want to sound like a jerk, but your science is just wrong. We can clone a human. Right now. We've cloned megafauna species in the droves, and they are no different than a human for the purposes of reproductive cloning. We can clone a Neanderthal. Right now. Is it dangerous? Yes. Is the method perfect? No.
Maybe we could clone a human being now, from nice fresh nuclei. Almost surely, even. Good luck with the defects that keep cropping up in the sheep and other mammals (compromised immune functions, tumors, etc.)

Cloning an animal, any animal, using DNA extracted from a 40,000 year old femur? That's what we call science fiction, because it involves lots of things we don't know how to do yet.

Even if we were sure we had a good complete genome sequence with an acceptably low percentage of errors, that doesn't magically give us a useable nucleus. Maybe you could build a nucleus from scratch; nobody knows how to do that, but it doesn't defy the laws of physics. Maybe we could create artificial chromosomes. Unfortunately, we don't know the particulars of Neanderthal gene expression; that's as important as the DNA sequence because it controls protein production. It's information that we don't have.

Maybe you could alter an existing human cell nucleus and change the DNA to match what you want. That's been done on a small scale with other species. To change a Homo Sapiens nucleus to a Homo Neanderthalensis nucleus, you'd need to make literally millions of changes. Can it be done? Don't know. And again, no way to know if you're getting authentic Neanderthal gene expression. Maybe somebody can crack that problem -- using knowledge that we don't have yet. If you write a fictional story in which somebody does that, it's science fiction.

(Have to remind myself to put that "h" in "Neanderthal". For a few years people were spelling it Neandertal to match the pronunciation; now apparently it's Neanderthal again.)

If you want your book to be shelved elsewhere in the store, fine. But, yes, it's science fiction.

ETA: Good luck with your project! You've obviously got a lot of enthusiasm, and it sounds like the sort of thoughtful science fiction I enjoy.
 
Last edited:

Demiansky

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
105
Reaction score
7
Location
Florida
Maybe we could clone a human being now, from nice fresh nuclei. Almost surely, even. Good luck with the defects that keep cropping up in the sheep and other mammals (compromised immune functions, tumors, etc.)

Cloning an animal, any animal, using DNA extracted from a 40,000 year old femur? That's what we call science fiction, because it involves lots of things we don't know how to do yet.

Even if we were sure we had a good complete genome sequence with an acceptably low percentage of errors, that doesn't magically give us a useable nucleus. Maybe you could build a nucleus from scratch; nobody knows how to do that, but it doesn't defy the laws of physics. Maybe we could create artificial chromosomes. Unfortunately, we don't know the particulars of Neanderthal gene expression; that's as important as the DNA sequence because it controls protein production. It's information that we don't have.

Maybe you could alter an existing human cell nucleus and change the DNA to match what you want. That's been done on a small scale with other species. To change a Homo Sapiens nucleus to a Homo Neanderthalensis nucleus, you'd need to make literally millions of changes. Can it be done? Don't know. And again, no way to know if you're getting authentic Neanderthal gene expression. Maybe somebody can crack that problem -- using knowledge that we don't have yet. If you write a fictional story in which somebody does that, it's science fiction.

(Have to remind myself to put that "h" in "Neanderthal". For a few years people were spelling it Neandertal to match the pronunciation; now apparently it's Neanderthal again.)

If you want your book to be shelved elsewhere in the store, fine. But, yes, it's science fiction. Hard, near-future science fiction.

We have already found a complete Neanderthal DNA sample and sequenced it so... problem solved. It was in National Geogaphic, Scientific American, and Discover Magazine, each one entertaining the prospect of Neanderthal Cloning. If you wanted to clone a Neanderthal, you'd have to sequence the DNA 5 times just to be safe, but that wouldn't take very long at all. As far as tissue is concerned, you would use human tissue to house the DNA and it would make a trivial amount of difference. You would need to arrange the DNA into chromosomes, which isn't difficult at all.

It doesn't matter when or where DNA comes from, as long as it is preserved. It could be from 250 million years ago, but if it hasn't been contaminated, you are golden. 40,000 is a trivially small period of time.

In my novel, dozens of clones are created, but only 3 make it to the embryonic stage and only one is born and grows to maturity.

Now, whether we call it Sci Fi or not is completely irrelevant, because no one can ever seem to agree on what Sci Fi is to begin with. I would be happy to call Sapiens hard sci fi.
 
Last edited:

Priene

Out to lunch
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
6,422
Reaction score
879
Incidentally, this plot has been done before in Isaac Asimov's The Ugly Little Boy , which was definitely science fiction.
 

Demiansky

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
105
Reaction score
7
Location
Florida
Incidentally, this plot has been done before in Isaac Asimov's The Ugly Little Boy , which was definitely science fiction.

I read it a long time ago and I liked it. Do you know how they got their hands on the "Ugly Little Boy?" They used time travel which, you know, is either impossible or very, very far away.
 
Last edited:

Manuel Royal

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
4,484
Reaction score
437
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
Website
donnetowntoday.blogspot.com
You would need to arrange the DNA into chromosomes, which isn't difficult at all.
Really? Glad it's not difficult. Nobody knows how to do it, but when they do, at least it'll be easy.

And there's the problem of gene expression; that information isn't just unknown at present, it probably no longer exists.

It doesn't matter when or where DNA comes from, as long as it is preserved. It could be from 250 million years ago, but if it hasn't been contaminated, you are golden. 40,000 is a trivially small period of time.
As you know, the issue of contamination in regards the current state of Neanderthal sequencing is controversial.

In my novel, dozens of clones are created, but only 3 make it to the embryonic stage and only one is born and grows to maturity.
Like in the 1963 Theodore Sturgeon story "When You Care, When You Love". Still a good idea.

Now, whether we call it Sci Fi or not is completely irrelevant, because no one can ever seem to agree on what Sci Fi is to begin with. I would be happy to call Sapiens hard sci fi.
Some of the old guard would call the cloning part "hard" and the sociology/psychology part "soft".

In answer to your initial question: Yes, I find the premise interesting; perfectly good premise for a science fiction novel.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.