I'm not sure if I want to be a graphic novel artist or a writer?

Throwing in my $.02...
My sister is an artist. She took art classes in high school and studied art in college. She went to a state university that has a solid art program, instead of the local private Art Institute. This turned out to be VERY good for the long term. At the Art Institute, students are encouraged to make art whenever they feel inspired. At the state university, she had to make art on a schedule - i.e. with due dates for each art piece. In the real world, very few artists can limit themselves to making art when they feel inspired. You have to make your art in time to meet deadlines, inspiration or no.

In high school, she began to develop a "style" of art. Nothing wrong with this, but when she went to the state university, she was forced to create art in many different styles (many of which were outside her comfort zone). That wasn't always fun, but it was VERY beneficial to her as an artist.

She studied with an "emphasis" in graphic design, which proved to be very beneficial. She now works as a website designer. Because of her background (college degree with graphic design emphasis), she is able to command a healthy salary. She works a 40-hour workweek with her graphic design job, but after work, she can do any other art thing she wants. Her job funds her art "hobby".

I don't know what would be better for you, but don't limit yourself. You have plenty of time to make all those dreams come true.

You don't need to know what you want to do. You're allowed to change.

It is good to have a rough idea, just like this, mostly so you can guide yourself to certain skills. Drawing is a skill. Drawing only manga is a more limited skill that may be less marketable resulting in less likelihood to do something like what melindamusil's sister did. That is, however, not the only way to do things.

Writing is also a skill. Knowing a thing or two about story structure is a related, but separate skill. Ability to imagine worlds is a skill, too, but it's also something far more inherent to the human condition so, like any skill, is best employed in tandem with a couple of others for the purposes of entertainment (authorship and other creative industries) or service (marketing, advertising, production, design, etc.).

Once you've practiced these things you can bounce between relevant fields fairly easily. Practicing isn't necessarily enjoyable but it doesn't have to be boring. It will be sometimes. Pro hockey players have to do bag skates. But they find some enjoyment in the routine of it, live for the moment they get to scrimmage (or actually play hockey), and work hard the rest of the time. It is possible to enjoy hard work, and to take pleasure in the sense of accomplishment you got by moving forward... or by hacking away at a block even if it doesn't move a great deal.

I don't know that there is any advice that will make life a constant stream of blissful ease. The bad news is that you won't always get advice. The good news is that, as you practice and accumulate that wonderful intangible "experience," you increasingly won't need it, at which point a whole other challenge arises where it is all of a sudden very difficult to hear feedback and act on it in a way that allows one to get better.

What everyone is saying here is that the lumps you take actually make the good parts worth it.

A word of caution: every human being I have ever met is capable of imagining worlds in his or her head. It's actually kind of essential, in a psychological sort of way, to how we communicate on a day-to-day level. Some people aren't as good at realizing their worlds in words or art and prefer instead politics. Some people imagine worlds that frankly scare me and I usually hope those people write dystopian horror novels instead of running for public office. The question we have to ask is how am I capable of expressing these things that excite me. Some people imagine worlds that have everything to do with competitive knitting (is that even a thing? I really, really hope it is) but I can't get excited by that. I am likely not their audience. If we want to share our worlds with others, including those others who might be curious or kind enough to give us money for the privilege of being entertained, we have to do the hard work of finding a way to communicate what we imagine in a way that is entertaining, skillful, and interesting to a given audience. That is the fundamental difference, at least in my opinion, between craft and imagination. You need both.

You may also find you need discipline to achieve a level of craft that satisfies your own and others' expectations. One of the toughest things about being someone who makes things is overcoming your own standards for consumption. If I love movies dearly and I try to make one, my first movie will likely be a steaming pile of crap. It will be riddled with visual mistakes, technical errors, clunky writing, bad acting, the lot. I will hate it because I am very good at watching movies--much better than I am at making them--and I expect certain standards, even subconsciously. The difference is whether I then pick myself up and make another movie, which will also be crap but likely slightly better crap than the previous attempt, or whether I throw in the towel and find a spot on the competitive knitting circuit.

Nobody said this was easy. My first novel is in the trunk because I wrote and revised myself into a fundamental plot black hole and it was more practical to start something else than re-do the entire storyline. I remember reading your Psyhero piece in one of my first ever crits on this board. This is what I wrote in my crit then:

I also started writing and self-editing around your age. I also tended to have great world ideas and some execution problems.

The execution got better naturally. I kept reading. I kept learning. Went and did more school (am still doing school...) and I now have to rewrite any early MSs because my writing voice is so different. Line-by-line writing gets easier with experience, so just keep doing it.

When I started, I wrote "EXPAND" in big letters next to almost every line. I had the same reaction to my first drafts as I did reading yours. There was line to hook me (often dialogue) and then no expansion. No real story, just characters talking. I didn't learn about "Show vs. Tell" until later, but I needed to slow the pace, flesh out scenes. I wrote the first section (about 40 pages), then rewrote and it expanded on its own.

I can see that happening with yours, but go even further. Close the original doc entirely. Your mind will remember what it said but add new things. Then cross-reference the original and see what you missed on rewrite.

What may eventually happen is you swing too far the other way. Paragraphs become bloated and overexpanded. Then you cut. Rigourously.

Click to expand...

Now, that was six months ago so you've probably improved. But if you're not letting yourself experiment you won't improve. If you're not putting words on paper--and it has to be more than occasional; exactly how much is up to you--you're not going to get better and you won't start to drift into other new and exciting problems.

If you're not trying it makes it hard for us to give you advice. That said, you can feel free to PM me any time and I promise I will eventually respond to it as best I can when I get a moment away from the sixteen other projects in need of urgent attention. Or, you can post a question here or in SYW where everyone can chip in with different ideas when they are around. You will get weird ideas, conflicting advice, harsh critique--but you will learn and continue to learn. Being young, you're not in a bad spot, really, as long as you keep at it.

Best of luck!

VeryBigBeard said:

If you're not trying it makes it hard for us to give you advice.

Click to expand...

This.

I wouldn't volunteer for a private discussion if I felt I'd be putting in more work than the other person was. If I see the other writer persisting and trying to improve despite finding something hard, I'll help as much as I can.

But if the other writer didn't read or write regularly, or found this boring, why should I take an interest?

xYinxx said:

I already explained a reason as to why I'm not interested in reading, it's a personal situation, it's not as if I'm some lazy person or whatever.

Click to expand...

It doesn't matter what your reason is.

If I ask a film director to give me tips on how to make a film, but because of a personal situation, I have no interest in watching films, I'd expect the director to not waste her time either.

Especially if there are plenty of other people who do watch films and who are willing to do the work of making films, even if some parts of this process are not as exciting and fun as others.

Maybe the title of the thread is causing an issue.

The title reads to me - and I'm guessing to at least some others - as if you were looking for career- or life-type guidance.

The posts though, read more like you're just talking about stuff you kind of like to do, hobbies, not stuff you're interested in seriously pursuing.

If people are responding to the thread as if it's about the former and you're thinking about it as if it's the latter, that could cause a disconnect.

xYinxx said:

Reading isn't my top priority right now

Click to expand...

No one said it had to be your top priority.

sorry if that equates to you wasting your time or whatever, which is weird because I'm looking for someone to just discuss the story with, but okay. It's not even wasting someone's time if you're practicing the craft.

Click to expand...

I don't get the impression that you're seriously practicing the craft. As cornflake said, your posts seem more like "just talking about stuff you kind of like to do, hobbies".

I talked with a writer for several months and he didn't even feel like he was wasting his time, even if I didn't really like reading.

Click to expand...

I'm sure you can find someone who'll talk to you about what you like. But these are the reasons I wouldn't do so.

xYinxx said:

I don't see the problem with wanting to just write for fun. I have plenty of time to decide to go into the craft seriously if I want to. As long as I'm writing, really, I don't see the issue here.

Click to expand...

Do anything you like. Write for fun, don't write at all, whatever.

But as I said, I wouldn't spend time exchanging PMs or discussing story ideas with someone who doesn't take writing seriously or who doesn't read.

There is also the serious danger of spinning your wheels and losing your creative momentum, if you talk out too much of your story ideas.

Brainstorming is wonderful, but it's not writing, and at some point it can be counterproductive.

ETA: nearly anything worth doing will have two inevitable components: unexpected discoveries that take you in new directions, and boring slogs of routine-but-necessary tasks. It helps to be prepared for both.

They might not lock it, because this thread can be useful to others who share the same sentiment. In fact, this thread title is actually a debate I have often with myself as I love both drawing and writing. I read more books than comics, though, but that might be because I can't find a comic that gives me interest. When it does... I like it loads.

In fact, I'm STILL debating. The idea of seeing my name on a book excites me. Seeing my characters and setting in words does too. Seeing them drawn and doing things is also exciting.

I'm actually focusing on both. Sometimes I want to drop drawing. "Why do I bother learning to get better, when I want to be a writer, not an artist?"

I can't help it, though. I could never just stop drawing. D:

xYinxx said:

I already explained the reading thing, I don't get why people are getting angry for someone saying that writing is a lot of work.

Click to expand...

Who's getting angry? I'm not.

Like...I get that some of you are really in love with this craft and stuff, but there's nothing wrong with being intimidated by the work. It's a lot. Get over it.

Click to expand...

Likewise, there's nothing wrong with saying that I, personally, would not spend my time exchanging PMs/discussing story ideas with someone who doesn't take writing seriously. Get over it.

You can't say my personal situation doesn't matter because you don't understand it.

Click to expand...

Your personal situation doesn't matter to the point I'm making.

This thread can die now. Mods, lock it (I don't get why they haven't yet, they just let it go on and on like this).

Click to expand...

If you want this thread to die, don't keep posting in it.

xYinxx said:

This thread can die now. Mods, lock it (I don't get why they haven't yet, they just let it go on and on like this).

Click to expand...

Have you PMed a mod and asked them to lock it? If you haven't, that might be your best bet.

xYinxx said:

It's just...really mindboggling that you're whining about me not liking the work.

Click to expand...

It's just...really mindboggling that you're whining about me stating my reason for not wanting to discuss story ideas with someone.

My situation is pretty important, actually.

Click to expand...

Good luck with whatever situation you've got, though I can't see how this "situation" is relevant to the topic of writing.

This is you:


"It doesn't matter because I don't understand it! Hurrrrrrrrrrrrr durrrrrrrrrrrrr!!! Herp derp."

Click to expand...

This is you showing respect for your fellow writer, is it?

Or is this an example of your writing style?

If you "think this arguing is stupid", no one's forcing you to post in this thread.

xYinxx said:

I already explained the reading thing, I don't get why people are getting angry for someone saying that writing is a lot of work. Like...I get that some of you are really in love with this craft and stuff, but there's nothing wrong with being intimidated by the work. It's a lot. Get over it.

I get that it's needed to get good. I get that. Doesn't mean I have to like it though.

But right now, I have other more important things to do. You can't say my personal situation doesn't matter because you don't understand it.

TLDR: I like the writing part. That part is interesting to me. Some writers are different. Everyone approaches it differently. It's not a big deal that my interest isn't in the boring/tedious parts. I'm young. My attitude has most likely changed about writing since I finished my novel. Perhaps that odd/burned out feeling after finishing my first draft was actually my brain telling me that this isn't for me right now.

I don't want to stop doing this, but maybe putting it aside would be smart (though I just started working on my story and I'm proud of myself for pumping out words again, lol).

This thread can die now. Mods, lock it (I don't get why they haven't yet, they just let it go on and on like this).

Click to expand...

Why are you getting so defensive toward the people trying to help you? Your personal problems really don't matter all that much, no matter how much you might think that's the case right now. We all have problems but in order to live life we still need to actually get up and do some work. That much is true for anyone, whether work takes the form of a job or schooling. So you shouldn't be using that as an excuse for why you're just not willing to put the effort required to be a better writer or artist.

At any rate, if you're just going to put your work aside and move on, then just do that already. You won't magically improve in any craft by avoiding the actual work. You actually need practical experience, you know... That actually requires that you read.

If you actually "got it" then you wouldn't continue to ask other people for their opinions. How many topics have you posted on here basically asking for permission to do something? If you were serious about writing, or anything else for that matter, either as a career or as a hobby then you would actually just do it already.

Quit or don't, nobody else actually cares. The only person of consequence should be you. So what do you think you should do?

xYinxx said:

I don't see the problem with wanting to just write for fun. I have plenty of time to decide to go into the craft seriously if I want to. As long as I'm writing, really, I don't see the issue here.

I like the writing part (when it isn't being frustrating), but the reading part...not that much. I kinda wish they weren't so correlated. :/

Click to expand...

There's no problem with wanting to write for fun. The title of the thread does not, at least to me, reflect that you wanted to discuss writing or drawing for fun, but as a career choice.

Also, seriously, people are trying to help you with a question you asked. If you don't like what someone has to say, say nothing, or say, 'thanks for your advice,' and move on.

Just to clarify, I have absolutely nothing against people who write for fun. I've never particularly done that, at least not in a long time, but I do respect it as a goal.

My willingness to chat about writing, publicly or by PM, is not limited only to those who seek to do it professionally. But because I do write professionally I have to be really careful with my time. Helping and critting aspiring writers is good professional courtesy, and a form of networking. Helping someone who will take enjoyment from writing but doesn't have the ambitions to really use it is still important to me, for the same reasons, but of a lower priority.

I haven't read every post in this thread. A lot of them did seem to be about career advice. I did gather there was a change somewhere but I wasn't sure where or to what, exactly, so I've kept my advice to the more standard professional advice because I'd like to think that can help both someone doing it for fun and someone trying to practice professionally. I'm sorry if it didn't help as much as I wanted it to.

xYinxx said:

Does anyone on here do both drawing and writing? I'm curious because I'm not sure what I ultimately want to do for the rest of my life.

I started writing when I was younger, probably in 5th or 6th grade. I started drawing way before that.

Here's the thing though. Ever since I was a kid, I've had dreams of making some really good and cool that people would like. And writing/drawing were my outlets of creativity.

I'm not sure if I should focus more on my art or my writing. I'm not even sure if I have talent in either one.

Does anyone know about the two careers (graphic novel artist/writer)?

Thanks. I'm having a hard time figuring out which is really for me, writing or drawing.

Click to expand...

I'm late to the party on this one and some of what I am going to type might have been said already..sorry if that is the case but I just don't have time to ready four pages of this thread right now. Here is how I will put it to you.....

You sound like a young writer. If that is the case my advice is to write what makes you happy and allow that to help you find your answer. Remember, you don't need to have an answer to this by tomorrow morning. You can take weeks, months, even years, finding yourself and what you were born to do. Many times we don't learn this until we are well into adulthood. I didn't discover my true passion of writing and speaking until I was in my 30s. You have many decades of writing in front of you so enjoy the ride and take the pressure off yourself, you are just getting started. Remember that life is a journey and not a destination, and that no two people are on the exact same path.

If I was in your position I would do both just to enjoy them. If you find you have a passion for one more than the other then that's great, if not you can continue to do both for years to come. This is where you are today and that is just fine..it's the correct thing for you at this time. Five years from now you might want to go in a different direction. Don't focus so much on your destination, just enjoy the ride that takes you there.

When I was in college I debated whether I would study art or study biology and the sciences. I had already become locally known as a fairly decent watercolor artist. I chose the sciences because I wanted to better know the subjects I would paint. I didn't regret my choice.

I used to hate writing papers for classes. I suppose my teachers made it seem dull. It wasn't until I took a geology class, that our professor required us to keep a daily journal of our trips to different sites across the country. It started out as bland entries of facts and figures, then I started writing about our interactions, scandals and it became very entertaining. I started to enjoy writing after that.

I got bored of painting when I got my first camcorder. I loved the beauty of moving pictures that told a story, and I found it difficult to express with a static painting. I decided it would be fun to make a movie of things I had dreamed about, however finding actors, finding great sites to film and with a lack of better editing programs, I decided the first step would be to write a screen play.

The screen play soon morphed into a novel and took on a life of its own. Now as I approach the completion of the first draft, I am thinking about adding artwork to the words and maybe even music. All this seems possible on the internet.

So maybe you can be both artist and writer. Seems like there are plenty of options.