I Absolutely LOVE My Agent, But...

Luzoni

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Oh, forgot to mention my issue with waiting for Easter...I don't want to make her feel like I've used her or been disingenuous. Since she's already been more heavily involved with revs on my second novel I'm worried she will be offended if I back out after she's already given me all her free time Easter only for me to say, "Sorry, I'm leaving."

Plus there's a termination clause in my contract that she gets commission from her work on any project within six months of my leaving. That's great for the one out on sub, but what about the ones she's revising? I'm not querying other agents with the one on sub and none of them would want to touch it anyway. But the one she's looking at now...I'm not sure of that one falls under the termination clause. I hope it doesn't because I want to pitch this one since it has the solid query now with a great opener.
 

whiporee

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I want to clarify two things. The first is that I know that agents want to have long-term relationships with their clients. I didn't mean to insinuate otherwise. But for a debut author, the business at hand is the book in hand, not the other MSes the author has written and wants input on. There are always exceptions that some have been clear to point out, but the in most cases agent is investing unfunded time in the writer, and it would be perfectly reasonable for an agent to want to see how the first work plays out before talking too deeply about the second or third.

The second is that everything has anecdotal evidence to support it, but the mainstream reality seems to be that there are a lot more authors than there are agents, and it would be bad mainstream advice to suggest that unpublished writers dump agents because they are not everything the writer hopes them to be. The OP's agent has gotten the books in front of publishers who have read it; the complaint comes from not being quick enough on giving feedback on two other MSes the author has provided. The consensus after that seems to be the agent isn't very good at her job, isn't professional, isn't really an agent and there OP would be better off without her. While that may be the case, not being fast enough to read two unfinished MSes doesn't seem to cross that threshold to me. (just to anticipate this --the OP said she was waiting for plot reaction which, to me, implies the OP isn't confident that the work works, which is why I called it unfinished.)

Likewise, I wasn't trying to say all authors don't like their agents -- I like mine plenty -- but that the agent's role isn't about writing support unless they have a lot of time on their hands. The agent is about the business of publishing, not the art of writing. They may be skilled at both, but if the agent is taking care of the business side of the relationship, then I believe she is doing the job she's been asked to do.

Lastly, I think everyone who is saying the Op should switch agents is right. If she's dissatisfied with the service she's getting -- and she made it clear above that she doesn't think the agent has the time she needs -- then she should find someone who does.
 

Barbara R.

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Whiporee made the very point I was going to make: that many agents do no editing at all. I've had three agents during my (longish) career. The first two didn't edit, the third does. It's not the agent's job (which is why I was surprised that the OP said her agent is expanding in part by hiring editors), but some do it in order to go out with the strongest possible ms. Others feel editing is not their forte, not their job, and not a good use of their valuable time.

Personally I'd take notes from my agent's cleaning lady if they were good notes; anything that makes the work better is fine with me. But I wouldn't hold it against any agent if they don't offer that service.

What's annoying is when agents do want edits before submitting, but don't get back to you with their notes in a timely fashion. "Timely" in publishing years mean ages in regular time--still, if they can't respond to a client within 2-3 months of receiving the ms., I'd take that as a very bad sign.
 

Barbara R.

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Plus there's a termination clause in my contract that she gets commission from her work on any project within six months of my leaving. That's great for the one out on sub, but what about the ones she's revising? I'm not querying other agents with the one on sub and none of them would want to touch it anyway. But the one she's looking at now...I'm not sure of that one falls under the termination clause. I hope it doesn't because I want to pitch this one since it has the solid query now with a great opener.

The purpose of that clause is to protect the agent in case they make a submission which results in an offer after the writer and agent have parted ways. If they haven't yet started making submissions, this shouldn't apply.
 

Aggy B.

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Yeah. The problem here is not that OP wants feedback on the MS from the agent and the agent doesn't want to give it. It's the question of saying "I'll read it and get back to you," and then months passing. (Coupled with the small alarm bell that the agent has specifically mentioned having time to read over holidays. Which implies she has not much time otherwise.)

Waiting months on a response from a MS is something you expect while querying, but not when one is a client. And the implication that the OP is somehow expecting too much in that regard is part of what provoked the intensity of my response. If the agent promises the client to do something in a certain time frame and then fails (again not by a few weeks, but by several months), it would make me wonder how they deal with other tasks. Do they make these kinds of promises to editors? Do they treat their submission schedule with as much "flexibility"?

It's one thing to say "I'm really slammed right now. I won't be able to get to this until March." But to promise to read over Christmas and then have to promise to read over Easter instead? That's a problem.

It's also something that could be fixed, if the agent is willing and able to get on top of the work she's promising to do. But if she can't (or won't) then staying with her is not likely to be in the OP's best interest. (Especially since it seems that she, like me, is fairly prolific. Waiting years to get the next MS ready for submission is not a practical option.)
 

Luzoni

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Whip, I don't know where you got the idea that I was waiting for something on plot from my agent. Maybe you misread something I said earlier about my agent not knowing about a plot point in one of the other MSs? I don't do revisions unless my agent asks for them, and when she gave me feedback after I asked her to read a third project the feedback revealed she hadn't read hardly any of it because she didn't know the plot. Plus she told me outright she hadn't read much of it. That's what I was trying to say.

I don't want to leave her. I really don't. She's wonderful and I can't praise her enough, but I have serious concerns. The only way a book can sell is if it gets subbed. And based on what Barbara said I'm starting to worry maybe my first book isnt even being subbed anymore, which is really heartbreaking if it's true and would mean I've wasted a year waiting when really that subbed book is never going to sell. I don't want to believe that's what's happening, but without rejections...no proof either way I guess. I just have to do the call and see I suppose.
 

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Luzoni, your call agenda sounds like a good one. I think you're approaching it well, and you're considering it with a level mind. I wouldn't worry about the time your agent put into editing. If she'd been more responsive, she might've avoided such a scenario.

To me, the submission history of the first novel is the bigger concern than manuscript edits. I've heard of agents who like to focus on one project from an author at a time. Others will work with multiple manuscripts at once. That's just a difference in working style. But it's not a good sign that she fell off in responding and communicating about the submission. It could mean she's run out of contacts, or that she doesn't have a strategy for round two or round three, or that she realizes the manuscript needs some fixing but isn't sure what, or that she's simply lost interest or fortitude for the ongoing submission process. If your agent balks at producing the complete submission history, that's a huge red flag. It's totally your right to have that.

Yes, finding an agent is hard, but if you did it once, you will do it again. Every writer I know (including myself) who's parted ways with an unsatisfactory agent has found a better one in due time. Don't stay with someone you're unhappy with out of fear. There are so many great, fast, responsive and hard-working agents out there. Good luck!
 

Luzoni

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Quickbread, so when I call her is there a specific way to ask for the sub list? Should I ask for names of editors as well as publishers and rejection letters? I don't want to leave something out, especially if she balks with more detail I ask. It could give me the evidence I need to be sure one way or another that she's subbing or not subbing. My family and hubby have been concerned that when I ask for that I'm revealing my (likely) intention to leave.

She agreed to a call and said I could call her any time today. She must be off for Easter now.
 

Quickbread

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Someone else who's had a tough conversation with their agent might have more constructive input. When I had the sub list conversation with my agent, he'd already left the business, so it was a transactional sort of call.

But I do think you could raise the issue in an open-ended way that really is just seeking to get to the bottom of her process and how you've been working together. You could say you're concerned about her lack of communication about the first manuscript and that you don't know what's gone on with it for quite some time. And that she seems to not be following through with her promises to review your new work.

Then you could just see what she says about all of it. Probably by the end of the call, you will have a sense of whether you want to stay on and make a go of it with her or terminate. But in either case, if you tell her you've been unhappy about being in the dark for a long time about the submission, it would be a natural follow-up to ask her for the submission history. I'd just make it short and sweet, and ask for the houses, editors and responses. It's standard for writers to know this or else to ask for it, even when the relationship is on good footing.

If she gives you grief about the response details, at least insist on the houses and editors so your next agent can take that into account.

Anecdotally, my ex-agent, when I asked for the submission history, gave me the names of four editors, all of whom had either conveniently left the business in the previous month or two, or who'd changed houses. So basically, he didn't submit my manuscript anywhere. :D
 
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Luzoni

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Damn! That's the second story I've heard now where the agent didn't actually ever sub. That sucks!! I know my agent did do quite a number of subs because she did share rejections with me and editor names for about six months. Then it got quiet. :\
 

Luzoni

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At one point she listed eight editors by name. In another email five. Without carefully going back and counting I'd estimate 17 editors who she shared rejections with me on.
 

Putputt

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Good luck on your call, Luz! When I asked for my submissions history, I just said, "When you have the time, could you send me the list of editors you subbed to? Fanks!" They sent it to me the very next day. So don't worry about asking for it, I think it's a completely reasonable thing to ask for. Good luck with the phone call!
 

Quickbread

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The reason I asked is to get a sense of her submission methodology. Do you know if she subbed in rounds or all at once? And did she regroup with you at any point, either via email or phone, to review the feedback as it rolled in?

I'm trying to get a feel for how strategic the agent has been about the submissions. Do you feel like she was being methodical and assessing the submission plan along the way? (At least for those subs you know about.)

Lots of times, the submission process drags on and involves a lot of waiting for the agent, too. But they should have a plan. It's possible that she's been pretty strategic all along and has just been waiting for stragglers to respond before reassessing the plan with you.
 
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Barbara R.

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Quickbread, so when I call her is there a specific way to ask for the sub list? Should I ask for names of editors as well as publishers and rejection letters? I don't want to leave something out, especially if she balks with more detail I ask. It could give me the evidence I need to be sure one way or another that she's subbing or not subbing. My family and hubby have been concerned that when I ask for that I'm revealing my (likely) intention to leave.

She agreed to a call and said I could call her any time today. She must be off for Easter now.

One way of doing it would be to state that although some writers don't like seeing rejection letters, you find them edifying, if unpleasant, and so would prefer to get copies of all she's received. Those copies, if she sends them, will reveal the editors' names.

Barbara
 

Luzoni

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She was strategic I think for the first six months. We had an issue where the MS fell in this obnoxious spot where it was an adult topic but YA because of the character ages and the underlying story was about forging identity, finding family and such. My agent doesn't normally cover YA. So she tried submitting it as both to see what the response was, what the editors thought the MS was. We determined it needed to be YA. I did a few small revisions to make it a little less gritty and we did another round. We did regroup when she determined it was more YA than adult that was when I did the additional changes. She submitted in rounds I think. Five or six queries at a time.

But the last rejection she til me about was in June last year. I find it hard to believe there haven't been others. So either she's just not sharing them anymore or...something else is going on...maybe. We were getting pretty rapid responses before. :/
 

Quickbread

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She was strategic I think for the first six months. We had an issue where the MS fell in this obnoxious spot where it was an adult topic but YA because of the character ages and the underlying story was about forging identity, finding family and such. My agent doesn't normally cover YA. So she tried submitting it as both to see what the response was, what the editors thought the MS was. We determined it needed to be YA. I did a few small revisions to make it a little less gritty and we did another round. We did regroup when she determined it was more YA than adult that was when I did the additional changes. She submitted in rounds I think. Five or six queries at a time.

But the last rejection she til me about was in June last year. I find it hard to believe there haven't been others. So either she's just not sharing them anymore or...something else is going on...maybe. We were getting pretty rapid responses before. :/

Ah, that's so illuminating. I'm glad to know she started out professionally and dealt with your manuscript submission in a reasonable manner. I wonder if the fact that she doesn't normally rep YA could be part of the issue. By any chance, are your subsequent manuscripts YA, as well?
 
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Luzoni

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The one she's read the least on is the most adult, I think it's NA. There's way too much sex (it's a romance) to be anything but NA or adult. I've been somewhat cursed with a "YA voice" though. The other project, the one she's supposed to read over Easter, is also NA-ish, but my agent says it still reads with a YA voice, despite the characters being in their twenties, which I guess now is "NA." One of my tasks in rev was to try and "mature" it, which was hard b/c I'm not sure how to alter my voice.

But the one on sub has all teenage characters, so in that respect it's classic YA. The other two projects both have older characters.

She may not know YA editors very well, which may get in the way of a sale...? I'm just guessing on that.
 

Quickbread

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It's possible that she's not as connected to YA editors, though if she's in an agency with other experienced agents who have YA contacts, she might get support on that front. Could be something to discuss with her during your call. I wish you lots of luck in sorting it all out.
 

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In these situations, there comes a time when the agent must do one of the following: (1) Start submitting your new material; (2) Offer editorial feedback on the new material, or at least on the ms. on submission, if she plans on new subs; (3) Say, "Sorry, I don't want to submit any of this; show me something else and I'll consider it"; or (4) Say, "Sorry, I don't want to submit any of this. It's time for us to part ways, so you can see if other agents feel differently."

Sooner or later, the agent will have to pick an option. Question is, how long will you wait? Having a conversation and requesting your sub list could be ways to push the agent to a decision, but that's not a bad thing. There's nothing untoward about requesting a sub list, so it won't push her toward "let's part ways" if she's not already leaning that way.

And if she is leaning that way, you need to know so you can get out there again.

In addition to the sub list, I would ask her outright if she thinks there are any editors left to submit your first book to. Depending on the subgenre, her contacts, and the sub history so far, there might be quite a few, or none. You need to know whether she thinks the book still has prospects, and that seems like reasonable info to request. (Agents on this board, please tell me if I'm wrong. That's just my gut feeling.)
 
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Luzoni

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Well, I had the call and maybe I'm just a pushover, but I found myself not convinced as I talked with her that parting ways wouldn't be a huge mistake. When I asked about the book on sub she had quick answers, that it's out with several editors, some of them huge, and she's just in a waiting game. I totally believe her that the book is a hard sell, and she did admit that she's new to YA editors, so she's learning as she goes. She is part of a larger agency that does cover YA, so she should have access to their contacts and knowledge.

I don't know, but listening to her just made me realize that in my effort to be patient, I let her put off my work. It's not fair to me that she did that, but I don't think there was any maliciousness in it. She did sound a little hesitant when I asked for the sub list, which did set off a flare in my head, but she said she'd send it and the details she gave me about where it's at right now make me think it is actually out with editors right now and she's not fibbing. She is running out of places to sub though, but she told me several times she's confident we will find the right editor, that it's just a matter of time.

So I'm staying with her. I did ask her if she thought she could commit to a reading time-scale of say two months. I think that's more than fair and she said she could. She didn't feed me excuses ("Oh, I've been so busy,") or anything like that.

Just...she seemed professional and still invested in me. So I decided to give her another chance. :Shrug: We'll see if she can get my other novel out on sub and sold. That'll be the real test.
 

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Sometimes it really is just the squeaky wheel that gets the attention :) She might just be the type of person who finds it easy to put things off until they have to be done. So perhaps make diary note to give her a call in two months if you haven't heard from here first to follow up. Don't be afraid to initiate the conversation if you think she's needing another nudge.
 

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Good for you for making the call! I'm glad that it went so well. I agree with LA*78 to not hesitate to nudge her if she hasn't gotten back to you in 2 months.
 

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The purpose of that clause is to protect the agent in case they make a submission which results in an offer after the writer and agent have parted ways. If they haven't yet started making submissions, this shouldn't apply.

I have a slightly deraily question here: if I have books A and B with an agent, and then decide I want a new agent for book C, and books A and B have not sold during my time with agent number one--what is their status?
Does agent one pull the submissions so that agent two can take them over after dealing with book C, or...?