Learning empathy

BookmarkUnicorn

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I've noticed that a lot of childrens stories, no matter their main plot, seem to boil down to the MC learning to understand others feelings. But it seems that while there is a certain age frame children are suppose to learn empathy in, some learn to be understanding much earlier or much later? I was just wondering if ten or eleven would be too old realistically for a character to still have troubles with this idea? Of course, I guess they could also partly understand it but not really care if they hurt anyone, in sort of a detached way? I know social intelligence can be hard to learn if you're not given the right environment to test cause and effect...
 

cornflake

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I've noticed that a lot of childrens stories, no matter their main plot, seem to boil down to the MC learning to understand others feelings. But it seems that while there is a certain age frame children are suppose to learn empathy in, some learn to be understanding much earlier or much later? I was just wondering if ten or eleven would be too old realistically for a character to still have troubles with this idea? Of course, I guess they could also partly understand it but not really care if they hurt anyone, in sort of a detached way? I know social intelligence can be hard to learn if you're not given the right environment to test cause and effect...

This is a complex question, sort of.

Empathy is not simply learned behaviour - some exhibit clear, measurable, demonstrable empathetic-type (prosocial) behaviours earlier than others, but infants exhibit empathetic responses.

I think what you're referring to is the ability to think of or in another's perspective, which should be in place around preschool age. However, if someone is disinclined, genetically or otherwise, or derailed at some point in their development, there can be hampered or missing levels of empathy and related behaviours.

If a kid was 11 and not exhibiting these types of behaviours or caring if someone is hurt, that'd likely indicate an issue of some kind that should be addressed.
 

frimble3

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I've noticed that a lot of childrens stories, no matter their main plot, seem to boil down to the MC learning to understand others feelings. But it seems that while there is a certain age frame children are suppose to learn empathy in, some learn to be understanding much earlier or much later? I was just wondering if ten or eleven would be too old realistically for a character to still have troubles with this idea? Of course, I guess they could also partly understand it but not really care if they hurt anyone, in sort of a detached way? I know social intelligence can be hard to learn if you're not given the right environment to test cause and effect...
If ten or eleven were too old realistically for a character to have trouble with the idea of empathy, why would there be bullying in high school, hazing on sports teams, and bosses who treat their employees like crap? It's a variable. Also, some people can do 'empathy' for people just like themselves, but have no interest in the struggles of people they perceive as 'different'.
Which is why so many charity appeals work on the ol' 'what if someone just like you was suffering, in need, etc? What if this had happened in your town?"
Look at the adults who see a problem and declare, "Why don't those people just ... That's what I would do!"
So many stories promote empathy because it needs to be reinforced, and expanded.
In some ways, that's the purpose of fiction in general, to explore what people would do in different circumstances, to let us play 'let's pretend' with a fictional life.
 

SuperKate

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I agree with what's been said above. I think that's one of the greatest roles of literature, to help people understand what it's like to stand in another's shoes, and to give them an investment in someone else. There was an interesting article in the NYT on this a while back: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/...ng-i-read-chekhov/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0.

To me, the concern is making sure it isn't didactic. I think it's better to have the MC be who he or she is, going through a lot of difficult stuff, and let the reader empathize. That's what books like Wonder do so well. I can't really think of a book where the point was the MC learning to accept others (though RJ Palacio, who wrote Wonder, also has a story from the bully's perspective; I haven't read that yet), but I can think of lots of books where the MC was so sympathetic that my heart ached for him or her - Bridge to Terabithia; Love, Aubrey; Bigger Than a Breadbox; Because of Winn-Dixie; even animal books like Charlotte's Web and The One and Only Ivan.

What books are you thinking of, where the point is that the MC is learning to accept others?
 

Debbie V

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If ten or eleven were too old realistically for a character to have trouble with the idea of empathy, why would there be bullying in high school, hazing on sports teams, and bosses who treat their employees like crap?

Fear.

Fear that the new guy will usurp their place on the team or that they'll be ostracized for not participating. Bullying is all about power.

Empathy requires thought and understanding. You have to take a moment to recognize the other person's humanity. People are selective in when and how they do that.
 

ScienceFictionMommy

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Remember that kids emulate what they see others doing, especially at home. So if a parent doesn't demonstrate empathy, the kid would likely try out and model the same behavior. And if said parent has been doing this their whole life...

Kids (and everyone) need lots of practice with this. If your character can't empathize with anyone, there's probably a psychological issue going on you would want to address (or demonstrate.) But if it's selective, they're probably par for the course
 

BookmarkUnicorn

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A lot does have to do with your parents I'm sure, and lots of bullies do know they're hurting others, hm...
I knew a few bullies in school myself that seemed like they learned their lesson about how it felt to be picked on, but went right back to acting the same way the next week. Their need to fit into a certain mindset of what it meant to be their idea of strong was just too great I guess...

As for books that spotlight learning empathy I really do have a hard time picking out just one. It seems like a overarching theme of a lot of children's books, most of all those centered around less than nice MCs that change somewhat in the end.
 

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Some Children/People with Aspergers/Autism have troubles with empathy and the like.

My son is on the spectrum and its something I have to watch for all the time and am constantly including ways to show how we treat others & animals even if he's not exactly empathic or feeling sorry.

A lot of people could (and do) end up going through most of their lives without being diagnosed and some end up diagnosed as adults. I believe I am probably some where on the spectrum as well.

I know it's not exactly what you're after, but it may give ideas for your character and researching into aspergers/asd & empathy might help you with your book. A lot of people show certain signs & symptoms of ASD as well (including lack of empathy) without actually being on the spectrum, so it's a thought.

:)
 

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I'm semi-familiar with the term, though what does didactic mean exactly? My own concern is whether the message seems to go before the story. That was often my complaint with Aesop's fables.

I don't think it's "you either read subtext or you don't" either. I once saw a class on how to read subtext including empathy, but then the guy was charging about ninety bucks for the writing class!

I think learning empathy is a learned behavior, not a born behavior.
 
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thisprovinciallife

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I'm a school social worker, and I regularly use empathy-focused social-emotional learning curriculums that span from Pre-K to 8th grade. You would be surprised how many students, even in the older grades, have no idea what empathy really means. I think that mastering the ability to recognize feelings in others is something that's addressed in the early elementary years, but I would absolutely say that knowing how to respond with respect and compassion to others who are different (or simply have different feelings) is absolutely relevant and necessary through junior high.

So, to answer your question, I would say that by ten or eleven, a character should be able to recognize feelings - but not necessarily know how to respond to them. I would love to see an MC who is struggling both with empathy and creating their own identity and self-concept, as these processes often interfere with each other, and your ability to balance that developmental stage affects how selfish or selfless you become.
 

JustSarah

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I knew someone at one point that confused sympathy with empathy. The difference is subtle, so that's understandable. Like someone could feel as the character, and someone else would simply understand the pain but may not be able to put themselves in their place.
 

BookmarkUnicorn

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So, to answer your question, I would say that by ten or eleven, a character should be able to recognize feelings - but not necessarily know how to respond to them. I would love to see an MC who is struggling both with empathy and creating their own identity and self-concept, as these processes often interfere with each other, and your ability to balance that developmental stage affects how selfish or selfless you become.

That's actually the main problem my MC is having in a nutshell (Under all the plot happenings). It's such a complex uncertainty that I was having a hard time putting it into words, thank you :)! AW is such a great place...

Some Children/People with Aspergers/Autism have troubles with empathy and the like.

I actually know a bit about both. Teachers thought I had some form of Autism when I was younger, but it turns out my lack of social interaction growing (a long story) up sort of mimics a form of Aspergers.
My MC in this case doesn't have autism, but I do think more books should have characters with it, of course being written as full people with autism being just a part of them :)
 

Debbie V

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This brings up a whole point about the need for and effects of real social interaction. Children who have little social interaction are less likely to develop empathy on the broadest scale. This is because they have less opportunity to experience it and practice the skills associated.
 

BookmarkUnicorn

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This brings up a whole point about the need for and effects of real social interaction. Children who have little social interaction are less likely to develop empathy on the broadest scale. This is because they have less opportunity to experience it and practice the skills associated.

Yep. Add to that bullying from others early on, and it's really hard to play catch up. I know that was my experience. It becomes a sour grapes sort of thing that affects your self image.