Agent prejudice against older first-time writers?

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Jamesaritchie

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In thirty-five years of writing, I have never had an agent or an editor ask me how old I am. And any agent with a brain would know that a fifty-five year old might well outlive her.
 

Bufty

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Sorry you're lost. Let me put it another way.

An Agent is initially interested in the book they think can sell and publish.

Beyond that is a lottery - regardless of age.

?

I'm lost. When did we start talking about this with regard to a gap in a writing career? I thought this was about older writers starting a career.
 

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Nope. If the book is written well enough, I doubt it makes any difference.

This.

And also, when you query a debut novel, how are they going to know your age? That information isn't going to come out until after they've already agreed to represent you, unless you volunteer it up front. I've never seen an agent website that asks people to put personal information like age or graduation date in a query letter.
 
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Ken

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"The agent told me, 'My dear, I couldn't possibly take on anybody over the age of 55; I need to develop a long-term relationship with my writers,'" Bill remembers. "The irony was she was even older than I."'

Probably --some-- truth to this. Agenting is business after all and like many businesses agism can be a factor in who gets hired and who gets the bum's rush.

It may be naive of me but I happen to believe that the publishing industry as a whole is one of the most ethical businesses around. So while there probably are some agist agents their numbers are probably few.

Am not in the aforementioned category, myself, but I will make a point from now on of stating in any future query letters that I am in my late nineties. Good way of weeding out any bigoted idiots I may happen to query.

Because hey. If they are discriminatory when it comes to age who's to say they are not discriminatory when it comes to religion, or race, or countless other things ?

So thnx for the tip !
 
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paddismac

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I think that this scenario could well be true - on a strictly individual basis.

All of us have our levels when it comes to who we're most comfortable associating with, and even though the agent/client relationship is basically a business arrangement, it's personal as well. If the agent loves the manuscript, but really feels uneasy with or disconnected from the author, that's not a formula for a successful partnership. It may have to do with age, or it could be something else entirely.

Maybe "Bill" presents himself as a curmudgeonly old fart, and it could well have made a difference in his case (sorry, don't know the gentleman in question to know if that's true.)

I honestly can't see this being an "across the board" trend that first time authors need to worry about. (Says the old woman who refuses to believe that she'll be turned away because of age!)
 

Mr Flibble

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How would an agent even know how old you are at the query stage? At any stage up to meeting you (unless you are a minor and need a guardian to sign things)?

I'm pretty sure my agent doesn't know my age now. He surely didn't when I signed with him. It never cropped up because it's utterly irrelevant. No agent I queried would know how old I am/was


Unless the gent in the OP signed his queries like Adrian Mole (aged 13 3/4) :D
 

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I saw that sales pitch on Amazon today too, and it made me furious.

It's misleading.

Agents care about the books you've written, and whether they can sell them or not. They don't care about how old you are, and even if they did, they don't know unless you tell them.

A friend of mine who is 67 has just sold her first novel to great acclaim. No one has withdrawn their interest in her work because of her age. This is not how it happens.

If the person whose work Amazon was advertising said he got rejected because of his age he was either being untruthful, or he was submitting to poor agents. Grrr.
 

heza

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Sorry you're lost. Let me put it another way.

An Agent is initially interested in the book they think can sell and publish.

Beyond that is a lottery - regardless of age.


Ah, gotcha, now. I just got turned around a bit.
 

Barbara R.

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This.

And also, when you query a debut novel, how are they going to know your age? That information isn't going to come out until after they've already agreed to represent you, unless you volunteer it up front. I've never seen an agent website that asks people to put personal information like age or graduation date in a query letter.

True...but only if the writer doesn't have much of an online persona. I didn't volunteer my age when I was agent-hunting after leaving my last agent; but the first thing agents do is google perspective clients. Bio's might not give ages, but they offer enough clues that a reader can take an educated guess.

Probably --some-- truth to this. Agenting is business after all and like many businesses agism can be a factor in who gets hired and who gets the bum's rush.

It may be naive of me but I happen to believe that the publishing industry as a whole is one of the most ethical businesses around. So while there probably are some agist agents their numbers are probably few.

Am not in the aforementioned category, myself, but I will make a point from now on of stating in any future query letters that I am in my late nineties. Good way of weeding out any bigoted idiots I may happen to query.

Because hey. If they are discriminatory when it comes to age who's to say they are not discriminatory when it comes to religion, or race, or countless other things ?

So thnx for the tip !

I know you're kidding, but just in case----please don't do that! Impediments to success are great in fiction, but in real life they're often, well, impediments. Aspiring writers have enough to contend with, without adding obstacles. Plus, every person, which means every agent, has his/her own preferences and prejudices. I wouldn't represent a Tea Party pol if I were still an agent, no matter how good the work. One of the perks of working for oneself.

I saw that sales pitch on Amazon today too, and it made me furious.

It's misleading.

Agents care about the books you've written, and whether they can sell them or not. They don't care about how old you are, and even if they did, they don't know unless you tell them.

A friend of mine who is 67 has just sold her first novel to great acclaim. No one has withdrawn their interest in her work because of her age. This is not how it happens.

If the person whose work Amazon was advertising said he got rejected because of his age he was either being untruthful, or he was submitting to poor agents. Grrr.

Indeed. My mother-in-law's first book came out when she was in her late 70's, and with a very respectable house: Northwestern University Press. Despite the quote from Janet Reid, a really good book usually overcomes all barriers.

Writers are always looking for reasons other than the obvious one for rejections. I'm too old. I'm too young. I'm too literary. I'm too politically incorrect. Very few say: "This book wasn't good enough. The next one will be."

I think I found it. Is that the one?

Not encouraging, on the face of it, but she does go on to say you just don't mention your age in the query and that she never asks about age before she signs someone.

It's good advice, even if it's hard to hear. Comes down to "Don't overshare."
 

Wilde_at_heart

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I feel like a young kid now among you old farts :wag: :chair:mob

Seriously though, it's like talking to police officers - never tell them anything they could later hold against you in some way :D

And, what Barbara R. said.
 
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lauralam

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My agent's biggest deal this year was for an author in her 60s.
 

Bufty

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She obviously deals with youngsters then but the thread is about us oldies. :snoopy: ;)

My agent's biggest deal this year was for an author in her 60s.
 

Jamesaritchie

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I think that this scenario could well be true - on a strictly individual basis.

All of us have our levels when it comes to who we're most comfortable associating with, and even though the agent/client relationship is basically a business arrangement, it's personal as well. If the agent loves the manuscript, but really feels uneasy with or disconnected from the author, that's not a formula for a successful partnership. It may have to do with age, or it could be something else entirely.

Maybe "Bill" presents himself as a curmudgeonly old fart, and it could well have made a difference in his case (sorry, don't know the gentleman in question to know if that's true.)

I honestly can't see this being an "across the board" trend that first time authors need to worry about. (Says the old woman who refuses to believe that she'll be turned away because of age!)

When a single novel can potentially make an agent enough money to retire for life, I doubt anything else matters.
 

Karen Junker

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Yeah. I'm in my sixties and have been working on the same manuscript for over 5 years. For genre fiction, I think I'm not nearly prolific enough. Things may be different for 'literary' agents, but I doubt I could tempt an agent at this point, even if I had a completed manuscript and another one well underway. YMMV.
 

Filigree

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Nope. What James said. I believe Sherri Tepper retired in her late fifties (not certain), and she's been published for almost 30 years now.

Longevity can be a factor, but it's not the only one.

I look at this quote from the original post: "Age is no barrier for independently published crime author Bill Rogers", and wonder how much of his 'barriers' to commercial publishing came from other factors than his age.

This is also a common reason I've heard for seniors to get snookered into vanity publishing.
 

BookmarkUnicorn

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I always heard it was the other way around, that agents wouldn't take you seriously until you were at least in your mid-30's because they wanted someone more seasoned by life and everything. Huh, I guess the grape vine was wrong, good to know.
I think age doesn't matter as much as the story you have to tell and how you tell it. Certain people live to be in their 90's, so some of it is how long you still have all your wits about you. I remember ..Didn't some famous writers have others write down their stories for them in their later years?
 

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When a single novel can potentially make an agent enough money to retire for life, I doubt anything else matters.
It's probably something similar some agents have in mind: when an author close to the retirement bracket makes enough money to retire early on the coattail of a successful book. Someone whose sole revenue stream is writing is perceived as more likely to be malleable to an agent and stick for the long run, compared to someone who is seen as having accumulated enough wealth to enjoy a comfortable living regardless if the books are successful or not. It's about demonstrable motivation. I see the same sort of logic in the VC / entrepreneur world.

-cb
 

Roxxsmom

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I can certainly think of successful authors who didn't publish their first book until their 40s, 50s, or 60s. There also seem to be tons of authors who write into their 70s, 80s, or even beyond. Writers seem to be a long-lived bunch overall, unless you count the tragic prodigies who hit their peak at a too-young age and subsequently burned out or turned to drugs and alcohol.

I suppose there's a sweet spot somewhere in one's thirties for a first novel, but eh, I could think of reasons why agents could be leery of even that age group. Someone in their thirties would likely be juggling career demands and child raising along with their writing. This could lower overall productivity too.

There are obstacles to productivity for every age group. Writers are people who write in spite of these obstacles.
 
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Ken

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I know you're kidding, but just in case----please don't do that! Impediments to success are great in fiction, but in real life they're often, well, impediments. Aspiring writers have enough to contend with, without adding obstacles. Plus, every person, which means every agent, has his/her own preferences and prejudices. I wouldn't represent a Tea Party pol if I were still an agent, no matter how good the work. One of the perks of working for oneself.

Thnx. And you're right. Writing is hard enough without starting off with any strikes against one, if avoidable.

So in summary one should keep TMI out of queries.
 

Jamesaritchie

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It's probably something similar some agents have in mind: when an author close to the retirement bracket makes enough money to retire early on the coattail of a successful book. Someone whose sole revenue stream is writing is perceived as more likely to be malleable to an agent and stick for the long run, compared to someone who is seen as having accumulated enough wealth to enjoy a comfortable living regardless if the books are successful or not. It's about demonstrable motivation. I see the same sort of logic in the VC / entrepreneur world.

-cb

The thing is, writers close to the retirement bracket usually write more, not less. Even most pretty darned successful writers keep their day job until they retire, which means less time for writing.

I also think many agents have a dream, just like most writers do. What if I turn down the next J. K. Rowling because she was sixty? There's fifteen percent of a billion dollars shot to hell.
 

Laer Carroll

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… one should keep TMI out of queries.

Not quite. One should keep THE WRONG SORT OF INFO out of queries. If age or experience is relevant, put it in.

Here’s what I put in my queries.

I’m a retired aerospace engineer who worked on mostly cutting-edge projects which once were science fiction. I spent the last dozen years before retiring insuring I could make writing a full-time profession.
As James points out, no capable agent is going to worry about J. K. Rowling’s age!
 

Ken

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I’m a retired aerospace engineer who worked on mostly cutting-edge projects which once were science fiction. I spent the last dozen years before retiring insuring I could make writing a full-time profession. - Laer

First sentence is fine. Really fine !

Second? That may be TMI? Really not needed IMO.

And to be honest I am not entirely sure what you mean.
 

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I'm with Ken here. Laer, I don't think that last sentence is going to help you. It sounds either arrogant or ill-informed, to be honest: no new writer can ensure that they're going to be able to make a living out of their work.
 
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