"In 2014 I'll only read writers of colour."

Roxxsmom · Jan 6, 2014

cornflake said:
It's not so much the discrimination that bothers me - whatever, though yeah, if someone were all about reading only white, male authors I suspect it'd garner a reaction from her.

If someone had read very few white, male authors, and in fact, didn't even know of very many, and he or she made this resolution, it wouldn't raise my hackles.

I could see someone who liked romance as a genre, for instance, saying, "For 2014, I'm going to focus on reading novels by male romance writers, because I think I've been ignoring their contribution to the genre and want to develop a greater appreciation for the ways in which men tell love stories," well, I could see that.

Contrast this with someone who says, "White male writers write better. That's why most of the books I like are by them. And I hate that PC crap anyway. For 2014, my resolution is to never read a book by a woman or PoC again."

cornflake said:
It's the idea expressed in the quote you pulled. Apparently, white folk, or European folk, or European white women, or whatever, all write "the same formulaic fables we've heard time and time again," while the people from other countries or skin tones apparently all write "new" stories.

The use of the term "formulaic fable" is problematic, because in a sense, all fables are formulaic. The ones we've been exposed to the most, will simply feel more formulaic to us. However it is very true that western European fables and tropes are over represented in fantasy. I think it would have been smoother if she'd simply suggested that people from different cultures might have different approaches to storytelling, and she wanted to experience some new (to her, at least) tropes and approaches that are least partially informed by culture.

Is it just the tone that rubbed you the wrong way, or are you saying that you think culture and race (both of the writer and the protagonists in a story) have no effect at all on the stories writers want to tell or on the resources to which they have access for publishing?

Roxx (who has plenty of white writers of both sex on her to-read list for 2014, but who is also looking to broaden her horizons).

Jozzy · Jan 6, 2014

I don't have any problem at all with her not reading any "white" authors in 2014. It's not like the books are going anywhere, and anything she missed she can always pick up in 2015.

It would be interesting to read what she had to say at the end of the year, and if there were any books that she deliberately skipped because of the melanin content of the author's skin...and if she then goes back and reads them.

Conte Remo · Jan 8, 2014

Jozzy said:
I don't have any problem at all with her not reading any "white" authors in 2014. It's not like the books are going anywhere, and anything she missed she can always pick up in 2015.

It would be interesting to read what she had to say at the end of the year, and if there were any books that she deliberately skipped because of the melanin content of the author's skin...and if she then goes back and reads them.

This was exactly what I was thinking. Most of us have put books on our to-read lists long before actually picking them up, I'm sure. Just because she's not going to read white authors now does not mean she refuses to ever read them again just because of their color.

Though I'm curious whether some POC authors, or authors in general, are private to the extent that their appearances are not revealed to the public.

I do agree about the statement of [people of this race] writing "the same formulaic fables we've heard time and time again," being annoying. There are white people who write POC characters (though how well varies), and not everyone of one race writes about the same thing. I mean, I have a deformed 43 year old black man as the protagonist of my psychological horror story, and I'm a young white girl. There are many subjects (not having to do with my MMC's race) in my WIP that would be uncomfortable and weird to a lot of people regardless of race.

On the other hand, my POC friend has a more accessible fantasy WIP, and my Indian friend writes works that are religious in nature (and despite his race he's not Hindu, he's Islamic). So that sort of blanket statement does not sit very well with me.

Paramite Pie · Jan 10, 2014

I can see this persons point, but it is worth mentioning that there are so many great works out there in languages we can't read. Many of those books will never be translated so alot of books from other cultures will never reach us. So alot of books by writers of colour are probably set in US/UK aswell.

Of course there still are many cultures which that might write in English (Hong Kong, Singapore, India, South Africa etc..). I think a better statement could've been "In 2014 I'll read more internationally."

I'm white and I often pledge to myself that I'll watch more international films but I guess that's easier with subtitles.

The formulaic comment is a bit harsh. I put it down to frustration and not an intent to label us all. Maybe if one puts just as much thought into the white authors you read, avoiding the blockbusters, then you can avoid many cliches too but as someone else said earlier, it's a matter of saturation. If you watch alot of Korean dramas they will also become quite formulaic. Japanese Anime is well known for it's cliches as well. But it's fresh too me.

aruna said:
In fact, it's the latter version -- the reluctance of most readers to venture beyond their own country and culture -- that is under discussion right now.

You'd be amazed how unadventurous some people are, even if it's only armchair travel.

mirandashell · Jan 10, 2014

Paramite, if you're into Sci-fi there are some fantastic Korean films available.

ellio · Jan 11, 2014

cornflake said:
There are white people of European descent in projects in Chicago and black people who grew up in wealthy neighbourhoods and went to the best schools. There's someone with the same thoughts, dreams, ideas, etc., in some far-flung corner of Zimbabwe as someone in Sacramento.

I saw this documentary, The Boy Who Flies about a paraglider who ends up in Malawi and teaches someone there to glide. The guy in Malawi always wanted to be a pilot, but didn't have the money to go to school. I'm pretty sure that doesn't have shit to do with his being black or non-European, if you see what I mean.

Ok, ok, so I get that your point is there are cliches such as white people are wealthy, black people live in the projects, and you're pointing out that there are experiences that subvert those cliches... but this really read to me like "hey guys there are poor white people and rich black people too". It rubbed me.

And this is why I think what the writer of the article is getting at. I don't want to read experiences by white/european/westerners that centre on white-european-western experiences all of the time, but more than that I don't want to read a book about people that aren't white or western or european (written by white authors) that I feel is presented as a "betcha didn't know black people were like this!" sort of novel.

The documentary that you linked, while probably a good documentary, still fills the quota of White Saviour Complex. A white man swoops in and helps the black man release his dreams because he was too poor to help himself. I've seen it. I've read it. It's been done.

Fundamentally, if I want to read about the black/brown experience, a brown writer is going to do that better. I'm not going to say it's impossible for white writers to write authentically about another culture or race that they weren't brought up in/are not a part of, but they shouldn't have to. There are writers from every country on this earth. We don't need to rely on white writers to write our stories for us.

ellio · Jan 11, 2014

Paramite Pie said:
I can see this persons point, but it is worth mentioning that there are so many great works out there in languages we can't read. Many of those books will never be translated so alot of books from other cultures will never reach us. So alot of books by writers of colour are probably set in US/UK aswell.

Of course there still are many cultures which that might write in English (Hong Kong, Singapore, India, South Africa etc..). I think a better statement could've been "In 2014 I'll read more internationally."

I agree with the first part but not the bolded, here's why:

I'm halfway through Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie's Americanah and the book begins in an African hair salon in the US. Black hair politics is a massive thing if you're a black woman. I would vouch that most black women living in the US or UK have been to a salon like that and if they haven't, they can understand the nuances of having their hair discussed and dissected, having assumptions made about their living situations/politics/background on something as small as their hair.

I was incrediby appreciative of that scene because somebody else had lived my experience and was talking honestly about it! When do you ever hear black people discussing their hair in media outside of black circles? Hardly ever!

I don't believe a white writer would be able to write about that purely because they would have had no reason to be in an Afro-Caribbean hair salon in the western world, nor do I blame them for not being able to. That's probably not why I'm reading their book.

At the same time I am so appreciative that somebody did write about that. So, I wouldn't discount the fact a lot of books written by brown authors are still going to be set in the west because, as I am a western reader, I still appreciate these snippets of combined culture that I may not otherwise have access to. Reading internationally is fun, enlightening and interesting, but reading about people like me living similar experiences to what I do is comforting.

Brown authors ain't always international ones.

Fruitbat · Jan 11, 2014

I love novels by and about people from other cultures. I read one not long ago ( I can't recall the title right now, wouldn't you know it) and it was interesting how the characters seemed to think so much more in terms of "we" rather than "I." Whether arranged marriages or whatever, everything had to fit in with the larger family and be considered in light of what effect it would have on the family as much if not more than what effect it had on that individual. Also, pride and shame seemed much more important than they are here. So, yes, quite a different mindset and world view, and then there were the very different religious beliefs as well. I enjoy the smaller stuff too, customs, food, etc.

Another one I read somewhat recently was a book of flash fiction from China, The Pearl Jacket. That one stood out to me because it was completely snark-free. I didn't realize how different or refreshing that would be.

Also, I think it's perfectly fine for the writer of that article to read anything she wants for any reason. Imo that's a very personal choice and right.

Rhoda Nightingale · Jan 11, 2014

Huh. I've done this in February two years in a row. Well, actually my focus is much narrower: black, female authors of horror/spec fic. It's sort of traditional, since February is both Black History Month and Women In Horror Month. I assume this is a slightly different kind of thing though.

Conversely, I wonder how many people spend a solid year reading only white authors without even realizing it.

aruna · Jan 11, 2014

Rhoda Nightingale said:
Conversely, I wonder how many people spend (a ) solid years reading only white authors without even realizing it.

Fixed it for ya!

Very true! The fact that it's unconscious doesn't make it any less... remarkable.

Anyway, here's a Goodreads group that deliberately aims to travel the world through books:

Around the World in 80 Books

They give themselves some very daunting challenges, for instance, the Around the World in 1001 Books, with its list of books from every country in the world.

aruna · Jan 11, 2014

ellio said:
The documentary that you linked, while probably a good documentary, still fills the quota of White Saviour Complex. A white man swoops in and helps the black man release his dreams because he was too poor to help himself. I've seen it. I've read it. It's been done.

Exactly! That's why I don't buy the argument "we are all human and all are the same everywhere." Even though it's true that we humans are fundamentally the same, our perception of the world, as seen through the prism dictated by the place given us by our colour, can vary dramatically according to the colour of one's skin. I noticed this even as a child in Guyana -- I noticed that the few white people I knew had no idea of the body complexes, and associated sense of inferiority, that was ingrained into me by the prevailing racial hierarchy. They had a natural confidence that I totally lacked. I had to consciously and rigorously deal with this and overcome it as I became adult.

Thank goodness, this is changing slowly -- but how much really? I recently read an article that placed black women as the bottom of the "attractiveness" scale. This was as perceived by black men as well as for men of other races. Black women feel this, know this, very well. How does it affect the confidence of young black girls as they grow up? Could a white person write about this? I doubt it.

And I think that might be the crux of the problem: many white people ~~think~~ fear books by or about black people are going to be about race, and they don't want to read about race. They want black people to be "just like us" inside.

The other day I remembered something: I hated my thick lips so much, I tried to smile as often as I could because it made my lips thinner! And the hair thing --- OMG. I mean, I had relatively "good" hair (yes, that was how hair was quite overtly judged) but even I went through a phase of chemically straightening, wearing a beautiful straight-hair wig. etc. So yes, skin colour does change things, and it would be very unusual for a white person to adequately "get beneath the skin" of a black person growing up in a white society.

Fundamentally, if I want to read about the black/brown experience, a brown writer is going to do that better. I'm not going to say it's impossible for white writers to write authentically about another culture or race that they weren't brought up in/are not a part of, but they shouldn't have to. There are writers from every country on this earth. We don't need to rely on white writers to write our stories for us.

You said it.

Ken · Jan 12, 2014

...my list has an entry requirement: I will only read novels written by authors who are not from western-European backgrounds. I will not be reading anything written by white authors.

Of course, I know accusations of reverse racism are pending, on the same vein that women-only book prizes and women-only reading lists have been declared sexist. And no doubt people will say I am limiting myself by purposely avoid books on the basis of an arbitrary factor.

But it's the opposite: I see it as a way of opening myself up to new stories, rather than re-iterations of the same formulaic fables we've heard time and time again.

So if she was given a group of books with the covers torn off she would be able to distinguish which are written by POC and which are written by whites? Would be interesting to put that to the test.

Katrina S. Forest · Jan 12, 2014

aruna said:
And I think that might be the crux of the problem: many white people ~~think~~ fear books by or about black people are going to be about race, and they don't want to read about race. They want black people to be "just like us" inside.

I don't think that's it exactly. At least, strictly speaking from my own experience. I think it's more a matter of when you grow up without any variety in your literature, when almost every protagonist looks like you, you develop the false assumption that everyone reads books with protagonists that look like them. (In other words, all those wonderful books that feature black protagonists are simply "not aimed at you.") No one said this to me as a kid per se, and I don't think I was even conscious that I ever had this attitude until I was much older. There was simply a lack of awareness about what I was missing.

Fruitbat · Jan 12, 2014

I don't know that white people want everyone to be "just like us" inside either. But I wouldn't be surprised if many people, in general, relate more to books where they perceive the MC and author to be "like them" in some significant way. Personally, I'm drawn to fiction where the MC (and author) are the same gender and age as I am, but not necessarily the same race or culture.

aruna · Jan 12, 2014

But I often see arguments (from white people) that "people are the same everywhere" and it "doesn't matter" what race the characters are .., without even realising that there IS a different experience and perception.

For a white reader, a useful exercise would be: imagine if all the books you had ever read, from the time you were a toddler being read picture books, had ONLY black characters. Every single person was black, and no-one looked like you at all; or if there were white characters, they were in secondary, menial roles.

Because that, vice versa, is the way I grew up. I think the first book with black characters I read was To Sir With Love, when I was in my late teens. Then came Malcolm X and a whole lot of other books I specifically sought out.
And it's still that way to a certain extent, and yet when we protest we are told we are cry-babies and need to get over it, that people are just people and skin colour of the characters is irrelevant...

Fruitbat · Jan 12, 2014

aruna said:
But I often see arguments (from white people) that "people are the same everywhere" and it "doesn't matter" what race the characters are .., without even realising that there IS a different experience and perception.

For a white reader, a useful exercise would be: imagine if all the books you had ever read, from the time you were a toddler being read picture books, had ONLY back characters. Every single person was black, and no-one looked like you at all; or if there were white characters, they were in secondary, menial roles.
Because that, vice versa, is the way I grew up. I think the first book with black characters I read was To Sir With Love, when I was in my late teens. Then came Malcolm X and a whole lot of other books I specifically sought out.
And it's still that way to a certain extent, and yet when we protest we are told we are cry-babies and need to get over it, that people are just people and skin colour of the characters is irrelevant...

I agree that is a very different experience and perception. I've heard it described that white, straight, middle-class (and to some extent, male) people are set on "lowest complication setting." Not knowing there's any difference is from that privilege. I mean, I think they really don't know. Oh right, that is what you said, isn't it.

firedrake · Jan 12, 2014

The only 'resolution' I would make regarding books I intend to read would be to read the books that look interesting/entertaining to me regardless of who wrote them.

That's really all that matters to me.

Paramite Pie · Jan 12, 2014

mirandashell said:
Paramite, if you're into Sci-fi there are some fantastic Korean films available.

I am very much in to Sci-fi! I've been to Korea (visiting a friend) and since then I've been very interested in that culture. I'd like to spend a year teaching English there someday.

Any recommendations?

ellio said:
At the same time I am so appreciative that somebody did write about that. So, I wouldn't discount the fact a lot of books written by brown authors are still going to be set in the west because, as I am a western reader, I still appreciate these snippets of combined culture that I may not otherwise have access to. Reading internationally is fun, enlightening and interesting, but reading about people like me living similar experiences to what I do is comforting.

Good point. :Thumbs:

I guess all the little details/insight add up to something more.

aruna · Jan 13, 2014

firedrake said:
The only 'resolution' I would make regarding books I intend to read would be to read the books that look interesting/entertaining to me regardless of who wrote them.

That's really all that matters to me.

That's exactly what I do! That's why I'm reading And the Mountains Echoed by Khaled Hosseini right now (fantastic --- JUST the kind of book I love!), and have Amerikanah next on my list.

Ken · Jan 15, 2014

Just keep doing what you're doing. That's fine. A well thought out perspective usually is

Cathy C · Jan 15, 2014

I can't say I've ever picked up a book based on the skin color of the author. In fact, unless it's a bestseller, I seldom ever see a photo of the author. The name on the cover might have nothing to do with the person behind the name, and I'm often surprised when I attend book conventions and see a person who might not even have the same gender. :Shrug:

But then again, I read genre fiction rather than general or literary fiction, so I don't know it much matters in my situation. But hey, any experiment can be a fun one. I once spent a year reading books in alphabetical order on a random shelf in the store chosen by an employee. It was sort of fun.

Good luck!

mirandashell · Jan 15, 2014

Paramite Pie said:
I am very much in to Sci-fi! I've been to Korea (visiting a friend) and since then I've been very interested in that culture. I'd like to spend a year teaching English there someday.

Any recommendations?

Oh lor.... if you want titles, leave it with me and I will go hunting for them. I can remember a synopsis of film far better than I can remember a title.

mirandashell · Jan 15, 2014

Ok.

Paramite, I've started a new thread in Movies and TV so we don't derail this one.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8650757#post8650757

Ken · Jan 15, 2014

Cathy C said:
I once spent a year reading books in alphabetical order on a random shelf in the store chosen by an employee.

Similar to a character in Sartre's, "Nausea." He read all the books in the library in alphabetical order. More than 10,000 or so. I believe you can top that yet. So hop to it !

;-)

Rufus Coppertop · Jan 18, 2014

aruna said:
For a white reader, a useful exercise would be: imagine if all the books you had ever read, from the time you were a toddler being read picture books, had ONLY black characters. Every single person was black, and no-one looked like you at all; or if there were white characters, they were in secondary, menial roles.

And I start wanting to read good books where the protagonist and other important characters are white.

And someone with black skin tells me to lighten up because hey it doesn't matter. We're all the same under the skin. Colour just isn't relevant.

I'm pretty sure I'd think, wow, easy for you to say, you patronising dork.

"In 2014 I'll only read writers of colour."

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

Jozzy

Please, sir, I want some more.

Conte Remo

Paramite Pie

mirandashell

ellio

a hardback life on an ebook budget

ellio

a hardback life on an ebook budget

Fruitbat

.

Rhoda Nightingale

Vampire Junkie

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

Ken

Katrina S. Forest

Fruitbat

.

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

Fruitbat

.

firedrake

practical experience, FTW

Paramite Pie

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

Ken

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

mirandashell

mirandashell

Ken

Rufus Coppertop