Reality Check

jeseymour · Aug 10, 2014

This thread will involve whining on my part, so feel free to move along if you don't want to hear that.

So... I've been writing, well, forever. I have a BA in writing. Considered going for an MFA, but never got there. Started writing seriously around 1989, when I started college. (I am not that young, I went to college later in life.) Stacked up rejections, kept writing. Finished my first novel in 1999. Got an agent right away, with help from the leader of my writers group at the time. Big New York agency. Really thought I had it made. She didn't ask for any revisions, just sent it out to 15 editors. All rejected it. Then the agent dumped me. I went to work on the second novel. Finished it and got another agent in 2000. He did nothing. Never sent it out. I dumped him when I was selected to attend Bread Loaf. Figured I'd get an agent there. Had some interest, but rejected by the 5 agents who asked to see the manuscript. Wrote my third novel. Started to get discouraged at this point. Sent the third novel out, got a round of rejections, started sending out short stories. First short story published in 2004.

Fast forward to 2009. Sent the third novel out to 90 agents, all rejections. Sent it out to medium presses, then small presses. Sold it to Mainly Murder Press, a small press in Connecticut which, looking back now, seems to exist largely to publish the owner's books. Sold maybe 200 copies, more or less. Continued to sell short stories. Rewrote the first novel. Mainly Murder dumped me and returned my rights to me, no interest from them in another book.

So in 2012 or so, I sent out queries on the first novel again. Once again, rejected by agents. Lots of interest from small and medium presses though. Picked up by Barking Rain Press. They also wanted to re-release the third one, Lead Poisoning. Very exciting!

Except it's not. Both books were supposed to come in May. That didn't happen. Lead Poisoning was released in June, and is still not available through Ingram. Stress Fractures was supposed to come out July 29 and is still not out.

More rejections on short stories. Querying agents with the fourth novel, some interest, but mostly form rejections.

I'm done. I'm ready to give up. I've been writing long enough that I should have gotten better. I've been a member of several writers groups over the years, with other published authors. I've attended multiple workshops. I read in my genre all the time. People tell me I write well. But I'm not there, and I just don't think I'm ever going to be there. I have no interest in self-publishing, and small presses are not working out for me. I am so discouraged I can barely type this, much less work on my fiction.

To add to all this, my husband lost his job two and a half years ago, and I lost my job a year later. Our house is in foreclosure. We've borrowed money from family to dodge the repo man on our car. (Husband has been back to work for 6 months now, but at a lower salary.) I just found a part time job, at a lower rate of pay.

So I'm asking, because you folks are writers too, is it time to give up? I feel as if I am what I am, and my writing is not going to change at this point, and I just can't sell it. It's not a hobby, it was meant to be my job, and it's clearly not working out. I am really not interested in taking this to the hobby level, it's way too hard for that.

I don't know if anyone can really answer my question, obviously everyone is different. I don't know why I have failed at this, when others around me have succeeded. I guess it's just time to stop doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Thanks for reading, those of you who made it this far. I'm really not fishing for compliments, so no need to pat me on the head and say how great my writing is. It's not.

lindz · Aug 10, 2014

I remember Brandon Sanderson (epic fantasy author) saying it took him six complete novels before he got signed for the first time with his novel Elantris.

Don't give up and try not to get too discouraged. It just takes work and a lot of practice. I would just keep writing if I were you. Have beta readers read your work, find out what isn't working and improve on it in the next book. If those first three novels aren't catching anyone's attention, start on another.

I don't think that saying your writing isn't going to change at this point is helpful to you. Writers change so much over the course of their careers. A first novel can seem almost written by a different author when compared to something they write 10 years later. We are always learning new things.

Best of luck though and keep on at it.

Larry M · Aug 10, 2014

Don't give up on writing. Take a break from it; do other things that you like. Concentrate on your job and other interests for awhile.

After a break, maybe write short stories, restaurant reviews, a blog/column type of thing on gardening or whatever interests you. Not so much trying to make money, but just to keep writing.

Don't quit - give yourself permission to breathe and relax for a while.

Best of luck to you and your husband.

wonderactivist · Aug 10, 2014

Dear Jes,

You are an excellent writer. The industry shouldn't keep you from writing. I personally LOVED Lead Poisoning and feel quite sure others will as they discover it.

Loads of people can tell you about industry dynamics but I will only say to keep writing as long as you love writing. Keep submitting as long as you want people to read your work. The breaks do come, just never when you expect. My own novel had its best performance a year and three months after it came out, seriously. It does not pay enough to pay the mortgage, not even when it was in the Kindle top ten. I have a day job. I make more from freelancing than fiction. Easily.

What's up with Stress Fractures? Barking Rain is featuring it on their website?

Lucie

JulianneQJohnson · Aug 10, 2014

You and your husband have been through a terrible time, and now you are having to try to get by on much less. Perhaps now is not the time to make life-changing decisions. Take a break from the writing and pay attention to the other things in your life that are clamoring for attention.

I can tell you pretty lies. I can tell you that if you just keep writing things will eventually work out for you. Maybe they will. There are oodles of talented writers out there who never get published. And there are oodles that do.

However, there's another way to look at it too. There's a bazillion people out there who dream of finishing a book and never do. You've written three! You have already done more than so many that aspire to write ever do. Publishing would be awesome, but not being published (more than you already have) in no way diminishes your accomplishment.

And there's more to it as well. I was reading a blog where they polled 150 published authors and asked them how many books they wrote before they were published. 44% of them wrote more than three books. That's nearly half.

What if you stop now and that next book, that fourth book, is the one that gets you where you want to be? What if it's the fifth, or the sixth? Is it still worth it, or would you have wished you had stopped?

I read somewhere, and I can't prove it at all, but I read that Carrie wasn't the first book Stephen King wrote, but the first one he got published. It was the fourth book he wrote.

I also read that Meg Cabot kept years of rejection letter in a bag under her bed, which became so heavy that she couldn't lift it. When The Princess Diaries was finally published, it sold 15 million copies.

Does that mean your next book will sell? Does that mean that any book you write will get published? Nope. But they might, unless you stop trying.

Take time to get your life back on it's feet. Then consider the fact that being downsized to a part time job sucks, but it also might end up giving you an excellent opportunity to write.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck.

jeseymour · Aug 10, 2014

I have no idea what's up with Stress Fractures. It was supposed to be out back in May, and has been moved out several times. Then it said July 29 on the website, now that's been changed to August. It's on their website, and they have the blurbs up, but no excerpt. I'm assuming the publisher will tell me when it's out.

jeseymour · Aug 10, 2014

wonderactivist said:
What's up with Stress Fractures? Barking Rain is featuring it on their website?

Lucie

Well, I just went over to Amazon and searched, and there it is. Says published August 8th. Nobody told me. :Shrug:

Namatu · Aug 10, 2014

1.

for Stress Fracture's release!

2. :Hug2:

You've had a frustrating road lately. Like wonder, I really enjoyed Lead Poisoning, and I'd be sad not to have a chance to read more of your work.

Whatever you decide, do what's going to make you feel good.

Nancyleeny · Aug 10, 2014

Hi,
I'm a new writer, I haven't written a novel before and I am just finishing my first draft of my first one. So congratulations on finishing three!! Writing and finishing a novel takes a great deal of tenacity and hard work, and most people will never do that. So try to give yourself some credit for that. And they have had interest, so you are obviously very good.

You have been through a terrible time. Of course you are discouraged. Losing your house is one of the most stressful things that can happen to a family. My heart aches for you. But as someone said above, it's not the right time to make such a big decision about your writing. You have to make money now, so maybe concentrate on that, because how can you write with such issues over your head?? I think you would be really stressed about your writing, and may force it. So take a break. Do other things. Recharge your batteries. Read in a bunch of genres. I love this one book, it's not really self-help but it helped me this winter in the darkest days I have ever had. It's called "Dark Night of the Soul." It helped me a lot.
Peace and blessings to you and your husband. Hang in there, and believe in your talent. I think that even if you told yourself that you were giving up writing, you would write again. Why? Because you are a writer.
Nancy

Melville · Aug 11, 2014

jeseymour said:
So I'm asking, because you folks are writers too, is it time to give up? I feel as if I am what I am, and my writing is not going to change at this point, and I just can't sell it. It's not a hobby, it was meant to be my job, and it's clearly not working out. I am really not interested in taking this to the hobby level, it's way too hard for that.

I don't know if anyone can really answer my question, obviously everyone is different. I don't know why I have failed at this, when others around me have succeeded. I guess it's just time to stop doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Thanks for reading, those of you who made it this far. I'm really not fishing for compliments, so no need to pat me on the head and say how great my writing is. It's not.

First of all, let me say that I'm very sorry for what you're going through -- my heart goes out to you and your husband. The best thing, of course, is that you sound as if you're working as a team to get through it.

But you say things that aren't necessarily the same thing:

1. You can't sell your writing even though you wanted it to be your job.

2. Your writing isn't any good and after all this time you don't think you can get better.

Those two don't necessarily go hand in hand.

If you wanted writing to provide an income, and #2 is true, you really need to give up. And shut up. You aren't interested in being a hobbyist, so you're wasting your precious time and energy when there's WAY more important family-related things to attend to. Not to do so would be selfish and self-indulgent.

HOWEVER...

Is your writing really no good? Then why did it attract agents, publishers and blurbs from respected authors? These people/institutions couldn't have been feeling sorry for you for the last 15 years, right?, seeing that the latest recession has only been going on for, oh, about six years.

I'm thinking -- in your bleak mood -- you're equating sales (agents, publishers) with ability. There's not necessarily a correlation.

Do you really suck as a writer? I haven't read your books, so I will have to ask those who have.

I suspect you're a good writer and that you've gotten better in the years you've been writing. If you're an artist or a hobbyist, that should have been enough. However, if you want to make a living at writing, that's something completely different.

Who is the audience for your books? Seriously. Did you write them with the intention of making a living writing what you wanted to write?

Some good writers write what they want to and it sells. Others write what's saleable until they make a name for themselves and then write what they want.

Have you treated writing like a job, and looked at what you could contribute to the marketplace that's saleable within the a genre you could write?

That's what I did.

I wrote literary genre fiction that got no traction sales-wise. The recession took the starch out of my life, too. I started writing straightforward genre fiction that I thought might sell, and it sold. The first two advances were small. The third one was four times the first. I got a 3-book deal on a second series -- I've now made it into the good living category.

I'm I writing what I wanted to write? No, it's a job. A job isn't always what you want but rather what puts money in the bank. But now my Big-5 publisher has expressed an interest in my literary genre fiction based on my sales in the bigger pond.

I suspect you could do that too.

But if your writing REALLY isn't any good, then I'm way off base. So you'd have to let me know before I can give you some practical advice.

jeseymour · Aug 11, 2014

Very sensible post, Melville. And you're right, I am writing what I want to write, so perhaps I haven't been treating it as a real job. Unfortunately, that brings me right back around to quitting, because I've tried to write other things, like cozies, that are hot right now, but I can't. I just can't get my mind around it. I write what I like to read.

I don't know if my writing is really any good or not. I got an email from someone I exchanged beta reads with, he now has a six book contract with a good publishing house. He suggested I should self-publish. Maybe that answers your question. It nearly made me suicidal. But then, I had two really big names give me back cover blurbs for my new book, and they both loved it. So maybe that answers your question. I don't know anymore.

Namatu · Aug 11, 2014

jeseymour said:
Very sensible post, Melville. And you're right, I am writing what I want to write, so perhaps I haven't been treating it as a real job. Unfortunately, that brings me right back around to quitting, because I've tried to write other things, like cozies, that are hot right now, but I can't. I just can't get my mind around it. I write what I like to read.

Granted I'm not an expert on your work, jeseymour, but a cozy seems the far side of what you're doing now. I don't think that's quite what Melville was suggesting. What's the more marketable niche that's closest to what you like to write?

I don't know if my writing is really any good or not. I got an email from someone I exchanged beta reads with, he now has a six book contract with a good publishing house. He suggested I should self-publish. Maybe that answers your question.

NO. Do not compare yourself with others. Easy to say. We all do it. Especially when we're feeling down and questioning things. It can be so self-destructive and confidence destroying. And honestly, those six books aren't out yet. His sales may tank on book one. That is no good measuring stick there. Throw it away.

But then, I had two really big names give me back cover blurbs for my new book, and they both loved it. So maybe that answers your question. I don't know anymore.

This is a better measuring stick because it's about you and your work. Is it where you want it to be? No. Is it empty of success? Also no. Should stop writing? None of us can answer that for you. Everyone measures things differently.

Be kind to yourself. Maybe step back and get some distance before making a decision. :Hug2:

Reality Check

jeseymour

lindz

Larry M

wonderactivist

JulianneQJohnson

Ferret Herder

jeseymour

jeseymour

Namatu

Lost in mental space.

Nancyleeny

Melville

Reader first, writer second

jeseymour

Namatu

Lost in mental space.