Question regarding FIM-92 Stinger missile

Solaris91

Registered
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Hello everyone,
I was trying to get information regarding the capability of Stinger missiles, especially: could a Stinger missile, fired from the shoulder (manpads), lock onto a slow flying target without a conventional engine with a hot exhaust? I was wondering if i could have a character shoot down a dragon with it, or if i have to get more creative for that problem.
Thanks in advance
 

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
10,297
Reaction score
3,859
Location
New Hampshire
Unless the infrared signature matches, probably not. And that's assuming the dragon is shooting out flames. However, the software could be re-written to match the infrared and ultraviolet of a dragon. Creates a bit more drama, as you probably can't test your software fix until you fire at the dragon.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

King Neptune

Banned
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
4,253
Reaction score
372
Location
The Oceans
I don't think they were tested on dragons, but any heat-seeking missile should be able to target a dragon that is continually belching fire. If you have a supply of dragons, then you might want to contact a company that produces heat-seeking missiles and see if they want to do the testing. That would make great advertising copy: 98% successful against dragons.
 

Cath

The mean one
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
8,971
Reaction score
2,298
Age
50
Location
Here. Somewhere. Probably.
Website
blog.cathsmith.net
Ok, for those of you in the know - what are the elements the users of the missile need to know to lock that signal onto a heat source (in this case a dragon)?

I'm ignoring the fantasy element here cuz I'm kinda fascinated to see where it leads.
 

Duncan J Macdonald

Plotting! Not Plodding!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,882
Reaction score
455
Age
66
Location
Northern Virginia

King Neptune

Banned
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
4,253
Reaction score
372
Location
The Oceans
Stingers probably would track a dragon, as long as the beast kept putting out heat.

from the manual, http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/44-18-1/Ch3.htm
"The Stinger IR seeker can discriminate between radiation from a small point source, such as the tailpipe of a jet, and large background sources, such as clouds and terrain. With the exception of the sun, the engine exhaust or tailpipe of the target is usually the smallest and hottest object in the environment and, therefore, will be tracked by the missile seeker"
 

Solaris91

Registered
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Stingers probably would track a dragon, as long as the beast kept putting out heat.

from the manual, http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/44-18-1/Ch3.htm
"The Stinger IR seeker can discriminate between radiation from a small point source, such as the tailpipe of a jet, and large background sources, such as clouds and terrain. With the exception of the sun, the engine exhaust or tailpipe of the target is usually the smallest and hottest object in the environment and, therefore, will be tracked by the missile seeker"

yeah, got the same idea while reading it as well. so, as long as there is nothing thats smaller and hotter, it probably works, with a bit of luck.

As for the testing on Dragons: i actually asked Raytheon, the manufacturer, if it would lock onto a similar target (a glider), but didn't even get a reply, so i won't help them either :mad:
 

King Neptune

Banned
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
4,253
Reaction score
372
Location
The Oceans
As for the testing on Dragons: i actually asked Raytheon, the manufacturer, if it would lock onto a similar target (a glider), but didn't even get a reply, so i won't help them either :mad:

I guy I know worked for Raytheon on a different missile. If I run into him, I'll ask if he knows. You'd think that Raytheon would want to put the information out there simply to give the impression that they have senses of humor.
 

Solaris91

Registered
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
You're in luck--Stinger II RMP switches from IR to UV.

Well, that would still leave the possibility for the target (Dragon) to merely reflect enough UV light from other sources (like the sun) for the seeker of the missile to target, so it might just work. But it wouldn't matter, due to the source where the character gets the missile, it woud be a Stinger POST, which has a combined UV/IR seeker.
 

T Robinson

Born long ago, in a different era
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
1,282
Reaction score
212
Location
Southern USA
Just be aware of the SPCD (society for the prevention of cruelty to dragons). They have an active presence in certain realms.

Obtain form DR-425A dragon resolution restrictions from your local Baron. Then you will be set.
 

Trebor1415

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
653
Reaction score
82
Location
Michigan
Please post the answer you get because now I want to know too.
 

badwolf.usmc

#CustomUserTitle
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
255
Reaction score
37
Location
Northern Indiana
yeah, got the same idea while reading it as well. so, as long as there is nothing thats smaller and hotter, it probably works, with a bit of luck.

As for the testing on Dragons: i actually asked Raytheon, the manufacturer, if it would lock onto a similar target (a glider), but didn't even get a reply, so i won't help them either :mad:

Yea, they would never answer than question. That is a fast way to get on a terrorist watch list.

Forget the Stinger missile, look at the Starstream or RBS-70 MANPAD systems. They can use laser guidance, so as long as you point it at the dragon it will hit the dragon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starstreak_missile
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBS-70
 

Solaris91

Registered
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Yea, they would never answer than question. That is a fast way to get on a terrorist watch list.

well, that was one of my concerns, but i then realised that any person that would be smart enough to get hold of a stinger missile would also be smart enough to find a more valuable target (sailplanes are quiet limited in how many people fit in), or could simply try out if it locks on. i mean, really, unless the President suddenly gets an urge to become a glider pilot, there are far better targets for terrorists.

As for the alternatives, i'm a bit limited in what stuff my characters can get their hands on, though i was already thinking about optically guided systems as an alternative.
 

badwolf.usmc

#CustomUserTitle
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
255
Reaction score
37
Location
Northern Indiana
well, that was one of my concerns, but i then realised that any person that would be smart enough to get hold of a stinger missile would also be smart enough to find a more valuable target (sailplanes are quiet limited in how many people fit in), or could simply try out if it locks on. i mean, really, unless the President suddenly gets an urge to become a glider pilot, there are far better targets for terrorists.

As for the alternatives, i'm a bit limited in what stuff my characters can get their hands on, though i was already thinking about optically guided systems as an alternative.

Target profiles are highly classified information. While it may not seem like a sailplane would be an important target, they are similiar enough to larger drones that you could use the same settings.

So in a way, you asked the US government how you could use a stinger missile to take down a Predator drone.

One reason i suggested the other MANPADs is because stingers are fire-and-forget systems that if they don't hit their target after ~13-15 second they self-detonate.

The Starstreak, on the other hand, is laser guided, so that means you need to keep that laser on the target in order to hit it. Many opportunities for drama there, plus the heat of the dragon doesn't matter.
 

Solaris91

Registered
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
while it might give some opportunities for drama, it would still be a bit weird for those weapons to show up, as the country it takes place never got any of them. And while the flight time is limited, 15 seconds can be
a. awfully long
b. enough time to reach quiet some distance, especially for a missile with a maximum speed of more than twice the speed of sound.
Mostly it's availability, though, so i had the choice between the stinger and 50 year old Redeye missiles. wasn't that hard.
 

Aldenata

Registered
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
12
Reaction score
1
If a Stinger missile can't target a dragon, I'll bet that a BGM-71 TOW or any other optically-guided anti-tank missile could. After all, most of them are (theoretically) capable of targeting helicopters.
 
Last edited:

badwolf.usmc

#CustomUserTitle
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
255
Reaction score
37
Location
Northern Indiana
If a Stinger missile can't target a dragon, I'll bet that a BGM-71 TOW or any other optically-guided anti-tank missile could. After all, most of them are (theoretically) capable of targeting helicopters.

You make a good point, but a small point of contention. TOW are not optically guided, they are optically tracked. TOW stands for "Tube-launched, Optically tracked, Wire Guided".
 

Aldenata

Registered
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
12
Reaction score
1
You make a good point, but a small point of contention. TOW are not optically guided, they are optically tracked. TOW stands for "Tube-launched, Optically tracked, Wire Guided".
You are correct.

It's getting a little old, and apparently wasn't popular even in it's prime, but I wonder if an M47 Dragon would work.:)

(Could Dragonfire be used to spoof or destroy an incoming missile? I doubt it.)
 

Duncan J Macdonald

Plotting! Not Plodding!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,882
Reaction score
455
Age
66
Location
Northern Virginia
(Could Dragonfire be used to spoof or destroy an incoming missile? I doubt it.)

Not a Red Dragon, no. But a Blue Dragon's fire is sufficiently acidic to melt through the missile casing, causing it to tumble and self-destruct.