Are stories set in high school unpublishable?

Jacob_Wallace · Jul 10, 2014

I was thinking of trying my hand at writing an erotic novel, but I'm not sure if it'd fly with publishers. I wanted to set it in a high school, with elements of voyeurism and underage drinking (by underage, I mean 18 years that are under 21). I was gonna have the characters all be seniors that are conveniently all 18 years old. 15 and 16 year olds would obviously not be allowed, and that's gross anyway. I know 18 year old seniors are ok with free websites but will that excuse work with real publishers?

Also is mixing sexualities marketable? I mean, could I have straight sex in one scene and then, using different characters, have a gay scene? And by gay, I mean man on man. On that note, how about bisexual men? Is that marketable?

KimJo · Jul 10, 2014

Most things are marketable, depending on your definition of "marketable."

Some publishers will accept *only* hetero or *only* M/M (or F/F, or menage, or whatever.) Having a book that has X-rated scenes of all flavors may be a tougher sell, because readers who enjoy reading M/M scenes don't necessarily want to read hetero scenes, and vice versa. Therefore, it might be difficult to find a publisher that will accept a book that has both.

Bisexuality is definitely marketable; however, due to what I said above, some publishers will accept a bisexual hero or heroine as long as they are *only* involved with one gender or the other in the course of the book. (In other words, "Back in the day, Harry dated Sally and the sex was awesome, but now he's dating Billy and not having sex with anyone else, and here's a scene to prove it.)

On the other hand, my novella Changing Planes, from Loose Id, has a bisexual hero who, if I recall right, has a sexual encounter with the woman he's been engaged to just as they're breaking off the engagement, before he becomes involved with the other hero. (I know I *wrote* that scene...fibromyalgia's doing a number on my brain this week, and I don't have access to my book files at the moment, so I honestly don't remember for certain whether the scene made it into the final published version.)

Setting an erotica story in a high school, even if you firmly establish that all the characters are at least 18, is probably the point you mention that would cause you the most difficulty finding a publisher. Is there any way you could set the story in college instead? That would be more palatable to most publishers, and possibly to many readers as well.

Tazlima · Jul 10, 2014

Jacob_Wallace said:
Also is mixing sexualities marketable? I mean, could I have straight sex in one scene and then, using different characters, have a gay scene?

This is off topic, but I just tried to imagine how one would write a straight sex scene and then a gay one without changing the characters (at least one of them).

Lol, super-fast-sex-change!

Maryn · Jul 10, 2014

I suspect setting a work of erotica in a high school is a deal-breaker, even if the sexually active characters are 18.

If it were me, I would not invest the time and energy for something which may be difficult if not impossible to sell. Self-published, it's likely to get that dreaded "adult" category which means nobody browsing will find it.

Maryn, thinking you'd be wise to move them to college or a workplace with many young people

Jacob_Wallace · Jul 10, 2014

The main reason I wanted to set it in a high school is one of the scenes involves a locker room. One of the characters develops powers and goes into the girls' locker room. I can't think of an equivalent 'look at naked girls' scene for college, since college doesn't really have PE.

EMaree · Jul 10, 2014

Jacob_Wallace said:
The main reason I wanted to set it in a high school is one of the scenes involves a locker room. One of the characters develops powers and goes into the girls' locker room. I can't think of an equivalent 'look at naked girls' scene for college, since college doesn't really have PE.

It could be a sports college? Or he goes to the women's only gym near the college?

KimJo · Jul 10, 2014

My university required 2 semesters of PE. Also, even if a college or university doesn't have a requirement of PE class, they do have at least one gym, with locker rooms, for student use and for sports. So setting your characters in a college or university would still enable you to use a locker room.

LJD · Jul 10, 2014

KimJo said:
Also, even if a college or university doesn't have a requirement of PE class, they do have at least one gym, with locker rooms, for student use and for sports. So setting your characters in a college or university would still enable you to use a locker room.

Yeah. At my school it was called the PEC (Physical Education Centre).

Jacob_Wallace said:
Also is mixing sexualities marketable? I mean, could I have straight sex in one scene and then, using different characters, have a gay scene? And by gay, I mean man on man. On that note, how about bisexual men? Is that marketable?

The Original Sinners series has all of this and seems to sell fairly well. So clearly not impossible, but take a look at the publishers you're interested in.

veinglory · Jul 10, 2014

university has mixed dorms and shared bathrooms.

If the book is genre erotica, having the word "high school" is going to make distribution hellish. I suspect that would limit publisher interest outside of hardcore.

Jacob_Wallace · Jul 10, 2014

Hmm, interesting. One last question. What are the rules regarding a character with telepathy that mind controls and effectively makes girls have sex with him? Does that count as rape in the eyes of publishers? It's not kicking and screaming rape, but he controls their body to do exactly what he wants them to do.

EDIT: the mind control character is presented as wrong. The entire point of him is to have a fall of darkness from his power, and then have a redemption arc in the latter half.

EMaree · Jul 10, 2014

Jacob_Wallace said:
Hmm, interesting. One last question. What are the rules regarding a character with telepathy that mind controls and effectively makes girls have sex with him? Does that count as rape in the eyes of publishers? It's not kicking and screaming rape, but he controls their body to do exactly what he wants them to do.

EDIT: the mind control character is presented as wrong. The entire point of him is to have a fall of darkness from his power, and then have a redemption arc in the latter half.

If it's against their will it's rape -- whether or not they're "kicking and screaming" you said yourself, he's making them have sex with him. There's no consent there.

I'm not convinced starting the book with the character raping girls, with the narrative presenting it as wrong, is a good way to kick off an erotica story. Not too many people are going to get their rocks off to that if they were expecting the "redemption arc" style of main character, and if the story is presented as a dubious consent or no consent story changing it half-way through will throw off the readers.

The story as you're describing it doesn't sound particularly erotic...? I'm going to defer to the pros in this subforum though.

(I've edited this post a few times to try and make my thoughts clear, sorry if anyone caught me mid-edit.)

veinglory · Jul 10, 2014

If he makes them want to have sex that is one kind of rape, if he just moves their bodied like puppets against their will that is another. IMHO combining non consent erotica and remorse about it in the same book might lose you are lot of readers on both sides.

Jacob_Wallace · Jul 10, 2014

I see. So what if I leave him non-remorseful? My story can work either way (in fact, having a believable redemption seemed difficult). Can non-consent and normal erotica be mixed?

I'm still in the very early stages of this project.

enkidu007 · Jul 11, 2014

Some of these posters are right on some point and wrong on others.

Your question “Are stories set in high school unpublishable?”

The answer is yes and no.

Case example:

If you go to amazon and look up a author “powerone” (I have read all his books). He writes very strong rape stories, not the dub-con or girl likes it in the end. All his stories contain strong rape, and many of his books the girls get killed after being raped. Some of his books also have mother and child being raped in vivid detail. Sure enough, Amazon and all the big publishers, like Barnes/Kobo/Itunes, all sell his books.

Amazon/Kobo has gone through more than 5 culls of adult books, yet not one of his books has been removed or banned, and his books have been published since 2003. Every major distribution company carries his books.

So no, your book would not be “unpublishable”, it depends on how you present the subject, just look at how “powerone” presents his. His method of presenting is the right way to do it. The book cover and blurb are bland, but inside, the content is rape after rape and then sometimes kill the girl.

If you look at his sales ranking, they are pretty good consider the subject matter. He will never be 50 shades of grey, but it’s a good living.

That being said, some of these posters are right on the matter of effort. If you are trying to make money, I would go with the soft-core stuff. Sell like 50 shades of gray and you and your kids will never ever have to work again. The hardcore stuff you mention will sell, but the audience is much smaller so won’t sell as much. I wouldn’t put the effort into the hard stuff unless it is a labor of love, where if you make money it’s good, if not no biggie.

That being said. Lots of idiot authors in the past have put some blatent offensive stuff on their covers and their book got out right banned.

Example: Rape highschool girl, cheerleader rape, shit like that on cover or blurb will be banned fast and hard.

Maryn · Jul 11, 2014

enkidu007 said:
Some of these posters are right on some point and wrong on others.

Your question “Are stories set in high school unpublishable?”

The answer is yes and no.

Case example:

If you go to amazon and look up a author “powerone” (I have read all his books). He writes very strong rape stories, not the dub-con or girl likes it in the end. All his stories contain strong rape, and many of his books the girls get killed after being raped. Some of his books also have mother and child being raped in vivid detail. Sure enough, Amazon and all the big publishers, like Barnes/Kobo/Itunes, all sell his books.

Amazon/Kobo has gone through more than 5 culls of adult books, yet not one of his books has been removed or banned, and his books have been published since 2003. Every major distribution company carries his books.

So no, your book would not be “unpublishable”, it depends on how you present the subject, just look at how “powerone” presents his. His method of presenting is the right way to do it. The book cover and blurb are bland, but inside, the content is rape after rape and then sometimes kill the girl.

If you look at his sales ranking, they are pretty good consider the subject matter. He will never be 50 shades of grey, but it’s a good living.

That being said, some of these posters are right on the matter of effort. If you are trying to make money, I would go with the soft-core stuff. Sell like 50 shades of gray and you and your kids will never ever have to work again. The hardcore stuff you mention will sell, but the audience is much smaller so won’t sell as much. I wouldn’t put the effort into the hard stuff unless it is a labor of love, where if you make money it’s good, if not no biggie.

That being said. Lots of idiot authors in the past have put some blatent offensive stuff on their covers and their book got out right banned.

Example: Rape highschool girl, cheerleader rape, shit like that on cover or blurb will be banned fast and hard.

I'll say it out loud instead of thinking it: While I recognize that these are works of fiction, and I'm okay with pretty much everything in fiction, I'm really uneasy that you have read every one of these books featuring rape after rape and often murder.

Since you're so new, I'll let you know that there's a strong bias here at AW against "rape culture" and that rape is most certainly not erotic to the person who's experienced it.

I must also note that all powerone's books are self-published. Many of the answers to the original question are about commercial publication, since the OP specifically asked about publishers.

veinglory · Jul 11, 2014

Many people say Amazon does not allow erotic rape stories. The fact is, they do--even books thousands of people have complained about with serial descriptions of extreme sexual violence and snuff. It is what it is.

But if you want a mainstream-ish audience that is a different matter. there are various kinds of condoned non-con for the mainstream erotica and erotic romance audience(e.g. harem romance, soul mate compulsion etc) and if you stray beyond them there can be backlash.

enkidu007 · Jul 11, 2014

Maryn said:
I'll say it out loud instead of thinking it: While I recognize that these are works of fiction, and I'm okay with pretty much everything in fiction, I'm really uneasy that you have read every one of these books featuring rape after rape and often murder.

Since you're so new, I'll let you know that there's a strong bias here at AW against "rape culture" and that rape is most certainly not erotic to the person who's experienced it.

I must also note that all powerone's books are self-published. Many of the answers to the original question are about commercial publication, since the OP specifically asked about publishers.

Well I read recently that Amazon was the biggest publisher in the world, if they are not then my bad.

Williebee · Jul 11, 2014

More to the point, by saying it is the "right" way to market this, you're endorsing false advertising. You know, lying to people.

This may work out good for the author in the short term, but I don't see any way that it works out good for the industry in the long run.

enkidu007 said:
Some of these posters are right on some point and wrong on others.

Your question “Are stories set in high school unpublishable?”

The answer is yes and no.

Case example:

If you go to amazon and look up a author “powerone” (I have read all his books). He writes very strong rape stories, not the dub-con or girl likes it in the end. All his stories contain strong rape, and many of his books the girls get killed after being raped. Some of his books also have mother and child being raped in vivid detail. Sure enough, Amazon and all the big publishers, like Barnes/Kobo/Itunes, all sell his books.

Amazon/Kobo has gone through more than 5 culls of adult books, yet not one of his books has been removed or banned, and his books have been published since 2003. Every major distribution company carries his books.

So no, your book would not be “unpublishable”, it depends on how you present the subject, just look at how “powerone” presents his. His method of presenting is the right way to do it. The book cover and blurb are bland, but inside, the content is rape after rape and then sometimes kill the girl.

If you look at his sales ranking, they are pretty good consider the subject matter. He will never be 50 shades of grey, but it’s a good living.

That being said, some of these posters are right on the matter of effort. If you are trying to make money, I would go with the soft-core stuff. Sell like 50 shades of gray and you and your kids will never ever have to work again. The hardcore stuff you mention will sell, but the audience is much smaller so won’t sell as much. I wouldn’t put the effort into the hard stuff unless it is a labor of love, where if you make money it’s good, if not no biggie.

That being said. Lots of idiot authors in the past have put some blatent offensive stuff on their covers and their book got out right banned.

Example: Rape highschool girl, cheerleader rape, shit like that on cover or blurb will be banned fast and hard.

Filigree · Jul 11, 2014

Hmm. My first novel basically begins with a public rape scene, used out of necessity for plot reasons.

I've been reading erotica online for longer than some of you have been alive, and I know exactly where powerone is coming from - straight out of the welter of snuffporn in the early to mid-nineties. Some people loved it. I quickly stopped reading the worst of it, and I would not allow myself to write it.

That said, I respect AW's stance on rape, and the larger e-rom publishing world's aversion to showing rape-as-titillation scenes. We have valid reasons for doing so, not least is public opinion of our business models.
For that reason, showing kids as sexual beings is Right Out.

Do what you like in self-publishing - the burden there falls on self-publishers to find a balance between marketing themselves and inciting their distributor's ire.

RemaCaracappa · Jul 13, 2014

I wasn't really sure what to make of their post either, were these murder/rape stories presented as erotica, or as crime stories? If erotica.....ewww, that's disturbing.

Maryn said:
I'll say it out loud instead of thinking it: While I recognize that these are works of fiction, and I'm okay with pretty much everything in fiction, I'm really uneasy that you have read every one of these books featuring rape after rape and often murder.

Since you're so new, I'll let you know that there's a strong bias here at AW against "rape culture" and that rape is most certainly not erotic to the person who's experienced it.

I must also note that all powerone's books are self-published. Many of the answers to the original question are about commercial publication, since the OP specifically asked about publishers.

veinglory · Jul 13, 2014

There is rape erotica, it is on Amazon. Like a lot of things (transformation, breeding etc) you are only likely to find it if you are looking for it.

bearilou · Jul 25, 2014

One thing to watch out for is some publishers won't publish what they term as barely legal erotica. Just turned 18 and/or just out of high school falls under that.

So, hit up some of your favorite publishers and look at their submission requirements.

Sheryl Nantus · Jul 25, 2014

enkidu007 said:
Well I read recently that Amazon was the biggest publisher in the world, if they are not then my bad.

Technically they're not - when you self-publish with Amazon you're using them as a DISTRIBUTOR, not as a publisher. YOU are the publisher and using their services and they deliver payment to you after taking their cut. It's a bit misleading to call this "royalties" when they do nothing but sell the product for you and give you part of the proceeds.

Amazon does have their own publishing lines but nowhere near as big as HQN and other large publishing houses.

Rechan · Jul 26, 2014

At least in the niche market I write for, there are quite a few erotic books set in high school, put out by small presses. A lot of them involve gay HS kids coming out (and having sex). The anthology I just edited for my publisher had a story involving a HS teacher and a student (who was 18). So I think it depends on the publisher.

If you're really concerned about it, contact publishers. Email them and ask what their policy is. If you are going the epub route with Amazon, email Amazon or start a thread on their kindle forum. Amazon is finicky and inconsistent and it's hard to tell exactly what Amazon will take down and why.

As far as "Going into the locker room", that's not in and of itself erotic, I can't see a book getting pulled just for that, and high school isn't the only place with a locker room/place for an invisible kid to check out naked girls.

Not only do colleges have locker rooms, but they have sports teams. The kid could go when the girl's Volleyball/Soccer/Softball/Swim team are done practicing, or before/after a game.

Also, there's the YMCA, and clothing store changing rooms.

veinglory · Jul 27, 2014

I think you will find those book were placed outside the genre of erotica -- because the content of the obscenity statute does not vary by publisher

Are stories set in high school unpublishable?

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