New Contest(s) - coming soon

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poetinahat

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Hi, all - happy new year to you!

I'm looking forward to putting forward some sort of contest soon. I haven't decided yet, but I think maybe even two:

- a poetry contest, as is our usual
- a critique contest, to focus on our skills in reading poems and offering feedback, both encouraging and constructive

I have selected one prize: A paperback edition of Jim Morrison's poems that I found at a school fete in a country town last year. I'll find other prizes to add.

I'll aim to announce the contests by Australia Day (January 26), when my next holiday comes along.

Any thoughts, pro or con, or ideas for either contest, would be welcome. Thanks.
 

William Haskins

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happy new year, rob. think this is a great idea. my two cents:

there are some really good formalists here, and i would imagine they would be delighted to see the contest focused on a particular form. in my opinion, however, thematic contests that allow for a wide variety of interpretation are more rewarding.

as for a critique contest... it's intriguing. but how do you normalize for a level playing field? it would make sense to have a single poem to be critiqued, for sure; but how does one account for judging bias based on a favorable or unfavorable critique?

just thinking out loud here mostly. look forward to seeing what you do with it.
 

Magdalen

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Sounds interesting!! Will check back for updates!
 

poetinahat

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Thanks, William - you provide great insight, as always.

My personal preference for poem contests is for form over theme, unless the contest marks a particular occasion.

I've been mulling the critique judging as well. I'm very hopeful that the two contests will generate equal participation. But, given that people often mention that they feel unqualified to critique, will they take the challenge? I hope so. I believe that critiquing helps us improve how we write poems. Without a doubt, solid critiquing skills are vital to the Poetry forum's vitality and, indeed, its reason for being.

The conflict is similar to the dilemma inherent in debating contests, isn't it? Then again, I wonder whether a critique is favorable or unfavorable -- or purely a learning opportunity. (I don't suppose that's ever strictly true, because encouragement or praise is very often an integral part of critique, at least in our context.)

You also prompted me to think about the object of a good critique. Is its purpose, for example, to...

  • help the poet improve an imperfect poem
  • guide the poet toward a better understanding of poetry
  • show how well the critic understands prosody
  • demonstrate that the critic has gotten the correct (ahem) answer, e.g. "Is it good or bad?"
I'm thinking that, in this case, it might help to identify compulsory elements of a critique, and possibly provide an optional template and/or examples.
 
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Kylabelle

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I'm looking forward to this. I am especially curious about the critique contest.

:popcorn:
 

William Haskins

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My personal preference for poem contests is for form over theme, unless the contest marks a particular occasion.

to be clear, i wasn't advocating for hallmark-holiday themes.

theme-based contests / exercises are often intriguing because, regardless of form or perhaps because of it, we see individual minds grappling, each in its unique way, with something that will collectively produce a tapestry of poetic reaction.

but, as i said in my earlier post, i've no doubt that form-based contests would go over better around here.

demonstrate that the critic has gotten the correct (ahem) answer, e.g. "Is it good or bad?"

ah, yes. but would the judge be predisposed to reject a critique that may be otherwise well-reasoned, constructive, specific and demonstrate an understanding of prosody (to use your phrase) simply because they disagree with the overall assessment of its quality...
 

Kylabelle

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theme-based contests / exercises are often intriguing because, regardless of form or perhaps because of it, we see individual minds grappling, each in its unique way, with something that will collectively produce a tapestry of poetic reaction.

I would enjoy this. It occurs to me that I'd enjoy alternating form- and theme-based contests, as a matter of fact.

If my life settles down just a hair, I might even attempt participation. :D

I'd think setting parameters for a critique contest would be especially challenging but I look forward to seeing what it entails. Should be really instructive.
 

poetinahat

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I understand about the distinction between themes and occasions, and the appeal of both themes and forms.

And I suspect all judged contests are subject, to some degree, to the judge's sympathy with the proposition. Are people able and likely to acknowledge that influence and discount it?

One possible countermeasure would be to require points pro and con.

To clarify, my point about giving the 'correct answer' was facetious. Revisionists always welcomed!
 

poetinahat

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I know you weren't, William, and I've gotten my semantic tone all wrong. My apologies; as a self-professed poet, I must do better.
 

Magdalen

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2 add my thoughts - here's a kind of rating system that might apply to critiquing -- it could probably be adjusted to account for "critique" assessment rather than "poetic" assessment. By way of saying I would be up for offering a crit (not looking at doing it more than twice, now that I'm old) to one group & then voting for another group... if that's how things work out. Just thought I'd comment.

Overall impression left by poem </> 10
Clarity of meaning/poet’s intent </> 10
Rhythm, Rhyme, meter, tone, imagery & mechanics </> 20
Specific aspect or strength of poem </> 10
 

poetinahat

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See, this is why I'm a consensus guy. Y'all's ideas are way better than mine.
 

Steppe

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Well I will try to participate in both. Often times I find myself short of time and just to busy (or lazy) to go into detail with a better critique. It takes a lot of effort as well as skill and knowledge and time to do the poet justice.

I can only appreciate the efforts some folk put into their critiques. I've often thought that, in as much as certain poems appeal to me and certain poems don't, I make a poor critic. That my critiques (when I spend the time on one) are very subjective and so of little use.

But I will try. This is why I think some GENERAL guidelines would be very helpfull.

Looking forward to both contests.
 
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Steppe

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Would we all critique the same poem, all poems or chose our own? Seems to me that if we all critique the same one, that would give the judge or judges a better chance at selecting a best one.
 

Ambrosia

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Rob, whatever the rules, a contest seems grand. It helps increase the interest in poetry and brings people into our little area of the world. I haven't commented before because I have been thinking what I might have to contribute to the discussion. Frankly, I haven't come up with much. :tongue

But there is one thing, having held a contest here, that I do know. Contests take a tremendous amount of energy from everyone involved, whether they are hosting it or participating in it or voting. I don't believe holding contests concurrently is a good idea. That would go for two poetry contests held side by side, as well as holding a poetry contest while another contest at AW is occurring. If the contests happen at the same time people have to choose where they will put their energy and I believe it diminishes participation. So timing would be important, imo. Having a contest followed by a short break of time, perhaps a week or two or four, and then holding the next contest makes more sense to me.

Of course, I could be full of it too. Feel free to ignore what I have just said. :D

I look forward to what you come up with on the contest front. :)
 

poetinahat

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Steppe, I appreciate that critiquing is new to nearly all of us. I try to remember how much I appreciate when someone else makes the effort to read and comment on a poem of mine. From that standpoint, anything is good.

I try to think about what I find helpful in other people's crits, and use something like that in mine.

And, really, critiques are by nature - if not by definition - subjective. Poetry itself is subjective; if there were only a finite number of right answers, we'd all be done with it pretty soon.

The subjective comments are the lifeblood of the critique to me.

--

So, then:

I'll see if I can write some guidelines before the contest.

And, yes, I envision everyone critiquing the same poem.
 

poetinahat

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Patty: Excellent point.

Let's have the contests run consecutively, not concurrently.
 

poetinahat

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Kie: Also excellent point. Would a review contest be a less daunting proposition than a critique contest?

--

I'm going to miss my self-imposed deadline, but I'll be back after our long weekend (Monday is a public holiday here).
 

dobiwon

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I've been too lazy to write any new poetry in quite a while. A kick in the pants like a contest is just what I need now!

A critiquing contest sounds v-e-r-y interesting.
 

kborsden

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Kie: Also excellent point. Would a review contest be a less daunting proposition than a critique contest?

Although, essentially the same thing, a review allows for more freedom for the individual writing it to put their personal stamp. As I said, the method of review has a far wider scope.

I also feel that the poem to be reviewed/critiqued should be nominated by the judge(s). you could offer one free-verse, one formal--the entrants then take either.
 

poetinahat

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Another advantage of the review is it's third-person, as opposed to critique, which I think of as second-person, and possibly more personal.

Here's what I think:

- a review/critique contest first. One (or two) set poems; having two might give opportunity for a compare/contrast discussion. Guidelines for the review - more scene-setting than rules.

- a poem contest next, the idea being that our senses are heightened by the critical exercise.

I'll set this on the weekend.
 

Steppe

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I am not fond of theme based contests. A poet should write about the subjects that move, create strong emotions, in him/her. A particular theme may or may not appeal to every poet and they will not be able to give the contest their best.
 
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