The New Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT)

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Not entirely. Anything you have published is open to criticism by the general public. Even if you've been through a tough editing process, even if the production values are high, you still have to face the readers.

You have to have a tough skin. The editor and publisher may love the final product. You may be happy. Your agent may be pleased. But if the audience still doesn't like it ... well, at least you still have your advance, and it's probably more than a buck. ;-)


I believe what the intention here is that a real pub/editor will help the author in refining their manuscript, where PA just throws you to the wolves. They don't care because my sister will by my book, even if it sucks.
 

JulieB

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So, maybe it's not just the 'PA' enigma, but that for some ANY TYPE OF PUBLICATION credit, turns them into, 'How dare you. Don't you know who I am?' (snip) A published author? Yes. A quality author????????

Funny you should say that. I was talking with a writer friend yesterday. Some one who has been MUCH better published than I. She said (and I couldn't help but agree) that we all think we know everything early on, but after more experience - and publications - we realize what idiots we were back in the day when we'd had just one or two pub credits.

Some people expect that crit = validation. I was there once - even after I'd had a few sales under my belt. I'm eternally grateful for the writer friends who helped me pull my head out of my nether regions.
 

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Funny you should say that. I was talking with a writer friend yesterday. Some one who has been MUCH better published than I. She said (and I couldn't help but agree) that we all think we know everything early on, but after more experience - and publications - we realize what idiots we were back in the day when we'd had just one or two pub credits.

Some people expect that crit = validation. I was there once - even after I'd had a few sales under my belt. I'm eternally grateful for the writer friends who helped me pull my head out of my nether regions.

Good Post Julie!

'Writer' friends......BIG dif. My friends love my work, because they love me. Without insightful CONSTRUCTIVE crit I won't improve my craft......I like to say, "I need to see a proctologist for a cranial extraction." :D
 

JulieB

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Good Post Julie!

'Writer' friends......BIG dif. My friends love my work, because they love me. Without insightful CONSTRUCTIVE crit I won't improve my craft......I like to say, "I need to see a proctologist for a cranial extraction." :D

I have some very dear friends who also happen to be writers. But they're also some of my most ruthless critics. I'm very grateful.

(ETA: I do have some fair weather friends who think the sun shines out of those aforementioned nether regions. I have my good writer friends to thank for giving me the kick there I so richly deserve once in a while.)
 

roncouch

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Funny you should say that. I was talking with a writer friend yesterday. Some one who has been MUCH better published than I. She said (and I couldn't help but agree) that we all think we know everything early on, but after more experience - and publications - we realize what idiots we were back in the day when we'd had just one or two pub credits.

Some people expect that crit = validation. I was there once - even after I'd had a few sales under my belt. I'm eternally grateful for the writer friends who helped me pull my head out of my nether regions.

Frankly, I wish I'd had more crit on my first book. I thought it was quite good until I picked it up a few days ago and randomly picked a page and read it. It wasn't anything like I thought I'd written! So, I looked at a few more pages. Room for improvement, for sure.
 

Afinerosesheis

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Ron, to answer your question a few posts back, AW has really helped me. When I first came here a few people were nasty to me. I think they thought I was a troll. But for the most part everyone here has been good to me. AW has opened new doors to me and taught me the real ins and outs of the publishing industry. With hard work, a good publishing contract is possible. With PA, nothing like that is possible.
 

Hummertime

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You have to have a tough skin. The editor and publisher may love the final product. You may be happy. Your agent may be pleased. But if the audience still doesn't like it ... well, at least you still have your advance, and it's probably more than a buck. ;-)


Allow me to re(para)phrase that. A traditional publisher generally won't accept a manuscript in rough shape. Thus the author receives a rejection notice, which is between him/her and the publisher. The rejection/criticism goes no further. Nobody has to know the manuscript's weaknesses except for the author and the publisher.

However, since PA's acceptance standards are a bit more - how shalt I put it? - broad, and their editing much more laissez faire, PA authors are more likely to open themselves up to public ridicule.

Of course the other point is valid too. When a traditional royalty-paying publisher accepts a manuscript, the editing process will likely be more rigorous than what one finds with PA.
 

Don Davidson

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I'm coming late to this discussion, but I'd like to add my two cents worth. I found AW too late to save me from signing on with PA, but I at least found it in time to keep me from wasting my money & time buying my own book and trying to hawk it myself. I'm very grateful to AW and similar sites, like P&E. You definitely serve a useful function, if only to keep spreading the truth about PA.
 

MadScientistMatt

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I believe what the intention here is that a real pub/editor will help the author in refining their manuscript, where PA just throws you to the wolves. They don't care because my sister will by my book, even if it sucks.

That, and if you send a true abomination of a manuscript to an editor or agent, you'll just get a letter saying it's not up to their standards, and nobody else will even see it to criticize it. Send it to PA and you could get a work that would have either been stopped cold or heavily reworked elsewhere out in front of the public, and inspire levels of criticism that would make the reviews of Spinal Tap's Shark Sandwich look tame.
 

roncouch

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Ron, to answer your question a few posts back, AW has really helped me. When I first came here a few people were nasty to me. I think they thought I was a troll. But for the most part everyone here has been good to me. AW has opened new doors to me and taught me the real ins and outs of the publishing industry. With hard work, a good publishing contract is possible. With PA, nothing like that is possible.

Thanks for your input. Most AW folks are very nice. I'm waiting to hear from a traditional publisher on my second book. It hasn't been rejected - yet.

Ron
 

DaveKuzminski

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Thanks for your input. Most AW folks are very nice. I'm waiting to hear from a traditional publisher on my second book. It hasn't been rejected - yet.

Ron

I hope you're waiting to hear from a commercial trade publisher. The only traditional publisher is PA because they made up that terminology to separate themselves from the other vanity publishers. Any other publisher that uses the term "traditional" to describe itself needs a lesson in publishing industry terminology.
 

Prozyan

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I've never understood PA's "Traditional Publisher" line, along with their slogan: "We treat our authors the old fashioned way: we PAY them!"

While it is true I have but a handful of publishing credits, I've been paid for each of them. And more than a dollar to boot!
 

DaveKuzminski

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I've never understood PA's "Traditional Publisher" line, along with their slogan: "We treat our authors the old fashioned way: we PAY them!"

While it is true I have but a handful of publishing credits, I've been paid for each of them. And more than a dollar to boot!

That's because PA is feeding newbie authors what they want to hear. New authors want to believe that PA is a "traditional" publisher because that also connotes that PA has been around for a long time. That isn't true, of course. New authors also want to believe PA is not a vanity publisher and the fact that PA pays authors makes it appear unlikely that PA is a vanity publisher when we know that it's a hybrid vanity publisher because it targets its authors as its market. That one dollar advance that PA pays is probably the best part of their investment that PA ever made since they've made millions so far from selling books to their authors.
 

Shadowman

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I haven't been on for a few weeks and I see that there have been afew pages added since I was last on. It's too damn late to read them now. So whats new? Anything good?
 

roncouch

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I hope you're waiting to hear from a commercial trade publisher. The only traditional publisher is PA because they made up that terminology to separate themselves from the other vanity publishers. Any other publisher that uses the term "traditional" to describe itself needs a lesson in publishing industry terminology.

Dave, I wasn't aware PA made up the term. Yes, I'm waiting to hear from a commercial trade publisher. I've been the PA route. I've learned the hard way. In retrospect, I know now what I should have known before. I believed my manuscript published by PA had potential. It was poorly edited, but still a good read. I have not lost money with PA nor have I made enough to crow over. Of importance to me is to keep on writing, and learning the craft.

Ron
 

DeadlyAccurate

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Not entirely. Anything you have published is open to criticism by the general public. Even if you've been through a tough editing process, even if the production values are high, you still have to face the readers.

On the other hand, writers who are published commercially are likely more familiar with criticism than PA writers. Many of them are completely unfamiliar with anything but praise for their works. Since they've received nothing but compliments from their readers* and PA "accepted" them, any criticism of them couldn't possibly be because of anything they did.

*Which is the more likely scenario: that someone who knows you but hated your stuff would lie to your face and say they like it, or that they'd tell you flat out that it sucks? Yeah, compliments from your friends and family are nice, but they don't really mean anything.
 
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Pagey's_Girl

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*Which is the more likely scenario: that someone who knows you but hated your stuff would lie to your face and say they like it, or that they'd tell you flat out that it sucks? Yeah, compliments from your friends and family are nice, but they don't really mean anything.

I'm blessed with two friends who are entirely willing to tell me what sucks, why it sucks and what I need to do to - well, un-suck it. (And, as I've found, they're almost always right - sometimes to my chagrin.)

Of course, the flipside of it is that when they tell me it's great, well - I know they really mean it. :D
 

Afinerosesheis

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I am not making this up!

I had a couple of nightmares last night. I am still shadowed with fear and uncertainty. The first was about PA. There was a corpse lying behind the PA offices. Everyone knew it was there, but no one wanted to do anything about it. The PA Faithful at PAMB told everyone who asked that they were just imagining things, PA would have no corpse behind their offices! Everyone was afraid to say anything; finally someone did. I felt sorry for the one who reported it because I knew they'd get it next. I was ashamed that I didn't have the nerve to say anything about it. We didn't know the identity of the corpse, but knew it was one of the authors.

The second dream was even worse. One day the emergency sirens went off and we turned on the news. There was a meteorite heading right toward earth. It was called the Trippler meteorite. Astonomers were scrambling to consult Obamma for options. Everyone forgot about Bush, he was busy they said. (This is my dream, it doesn't indicate any political preference =) )

I went to the the video store/library with a girl in town whose husband just shot hisself (this part is true, he really did) We rented movies and at the library I checked out a book about fairies. (I don't read fairy books) I suppose I just left hubby and kids at home to worry. My friend told me it didn't matter, she would join her husband. We talked to two other friends who had been tracking the meteorite on the news. It's course was set to strike the Midwest dead on. I was thinking how that really sucked, not realizing most life on earth would probably die, too. I didn't know what to do. I remarked to my friends that if Bruce Willis could go up and shoot down a meteorite, so could our government. I went home to my family then. We didn't want to watch the movies, we watched the news instead.

The countdown clock to impact was set to 2 hours and 57 seconds. About 8 or 9 that night, we'd all be dead. How do you prepare yourself and your children for such tragedy? I mourned for their lost futures the most.
I wondered if it would hurt when I died or if it would be quick. I thought I would hear some noise before it came in. I wondered a million thoughts, but thought of nothing at all.

So when I awoke, I was very thankful. I took the dog out to pee. I was relieved to feel the breeze upon my face and know that it all was a dream. I went to retrieve my mail and lo and behold was a check from PA.

Isn't that a riot? It was enough to buy a carton of smokes...almost.
 
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DeadlyAccurate

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And some of the commercially pubbed writers still can't deal with criticism. Don't believe me? Go dig through Dear Author. Woah.

Well, yeah, that's why I said 'likely.' There are always going to be exceptions (including a few rather famous ones.) I have promises from people around the country to slap me if I ever turn out like that.

Pagey's_Girl said:
I'm blessed with two friends who are entirely willing to tell me what sucks, why it sucks and what I need to do to - well, un-suck it. (And, as I've found, they're almost always right - sometimes to my chagrin.)

So am I, but most people wouldn't dream of saying anything critical to a friend's face.
 

Shadowman

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Well, PA still sucks.:D

~Michael


No matter how much time I miss on this site that is one thing that will never change. Writers and people in general can un-suck. To quote a poster on this page. But PA will never un-suck no matter how much time passes.
 
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